CPL new teams speculation

[phil03]

19 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What do you think about compatible field size? NFL fields are smaller and if you've seen NFL in a soccer stadium, it looks dwarfed. I think some US fields will have to be expanded for the World Cup, losing seating.

Not so much with CFL, which for me fits better. Saying this as I believe there could be better compatibility when it comes to stadiums, as half of the CFL proves. 

19 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I'm not saying there needs to be a formal agreement. I'm just saying you got Moncton, Quebec, Kitchener, London, Kelowna whatever. If you have people interested in CFL and CPL in those markets but they need to build. Why not bring people together and make it work for everyone 

So its interesting Moncton, where I grew up, is mentioned here because its actually a great example of spots where the CPL and the CFL's interests could easily run against each other. Moncton already has a nice Soccer-specific stadium, owned by the city and currently unused, Stade Medavie. It can seat 10,000 people at full capacity and in many ways would be a great fit for a CPL club. It is one of the reasons Moncton keeps coming up in such chats from time to time.

There is no need to team up with a CFL team. In the best case scenario it would build elsewhere and would exist in paralel, taking its fanbase from different demographic subgroups then a hypothetical CPL club. Worst case scenario it would convince the city to make them co-tenants of Medavie and turn the building into an hybrid stadium, which in effect would probably mean a Guirdiron-first stadium. 

On the other hand, in Québec to either renovate Stade Telus or build something brand new? Sure, then collaboration would make sense.

Which was my point: the CPL should work with them when it makes sense and push its interests at their expense when its what need to be done for Canadian soccer.

Case by case.

Edited March 2 by phil03

[Mihairokov]

On 2/29/2024 at 3:58 PM, SpursFlu said:

People seem to be ignoring reality here.

https://3downnation.com/2023/10/30/cfl-attendance-up-three-percent-in-2023-as-argos-and-lions-soar-stamps-and-redblacks-sink/

 

The premise of this article is a bit deceptive without context. Yes, the CFL saw a 3% decrease YoY, but they've had steady decreases in every season going back to the mid 2000s.
https://stats.cfldb.ca/league/cfl/attendance/

The above site is very useful for anything CFL, but you'll see in the link that the CFL reached peak crowds (in recent history) in 2007 and haven't come close since. They shed roughly 5K/game from 2007 to 2017 and have shed a further 2K/game since 2017. So, they may be 3% up YoY, but this is a league that's down 25% since 2007. This is also a league that requires 18-20K/game to be anything close to economically feasible. The writing is on the wall unless they can either start getting more people to games or more people watching on TV. Their ratings are going in the same direction as their crowds are.

On 2/29/2024 at 9:10 AM, Cicero said:

I think you're going the wrong direction. I think Pickering to Oshawa and surrounding rural municipalities is really more the Argo's demographic. Mississauga doesn't support anything and Peel in general is not full of the CFL-type fan, and then if you go much further west, you get into Ticats territory.

Durham Region now has 700,000 people, almost as many as Winnipeg and Hamilton/Burlington.

I pushed west because there's more people in KWC/London likely willing to drive than in the East GTA. These are teams that do need to rely on people driving to games.

[MauditYvon]

8 French speakers in the last CMNT squad, still no team in Québec. If this league wants growth, the easiest way would be to cover a market representing 20% of the country.

[Aird25]

6 hours ago, MauditYvon said:

8 French speakers in the last CMNT squad, still no team in Québec. If this league wants growth, the easiest way would be to cover a market representing 20% of the country.

I seem to see this type of argument over and over again, but I'm not really sure how to interpret it. CPL clearly wants to expand into Québec. They've stated that for years, but they're still waiting on a club/owner/investor/stadium to do so. I'm all for another voice joining the many of us calling for someone to step up in Québec, but it seems folks are placing the blame for no team on the league, which I don't get. Do people really want Bob Young or Dean Shillington to take control in Québec?

Edited March 12 by Aird25

[Kent]

Yeah, it doesn't look like Bunbury has found any willing money people after all these years.

[vancanman]

On 3/13/2024 at 5:14 AM, Kent said:

Yeah, it doesn't look like Bunbury has found any willing money people after all these years.

I'm expecting an announcement in a couple of weeks...oh, no wait, it's not still 2019 is it?

[Kingston]

On 3/12/2024 at 4:14 PM, Kent said:

Yeah, it doesn't look like Bunbury has found any willing money people after all these years.

There are two potential markets in Quebec.

Montreal is problematic because of the MLS team.  I know there are people who are bullish on shared markets but the experiences of York and Vancouver are likely giving potential owners pause about sinking their money into a CPL team for Montreal.

Quebec City has the same stadium issues that are apparently the biggest obstacle for most of the potential expansion markets.

And, unfortunately, the lack of concrete expansion action is not limited to Quebec.  I'd really love to hear something like "Team X will be launching at the start of the 2025 season" instead of "we continue to work with many interested parties".

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Expansion isn't likely to be easy until there's clarity as to what exactly is happening with Onesoccer moving forward.

By 2027, they could be looking at picking up all production costs plus paying for access on cable rather than a $14 million rights fee and all production costs covered by Mediapro according to the deal they signed before the league launched. That makes a big difference to what sort of expansion fee they can charge and how eager somebody is likely to be to pay it.

All the negative publicity about the CSB deal is unlikely to help either. Worth bearing in mind that the only "expansion" that has happened so far beyond the original eight target markets for 2019 is a case of one of the original investor groups finally being able to have a team where they originally wanted to be.

Edited March 22 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[MtlMario]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

There are two potential markets in Quebec.

Montreal is problematic because of the MLS team.  I know there are people who are bullish on shared markets but the experiences of York and Vancouver are likely giving potential owners pause about sinking their money into a CPL team for Montreal.

 

That's why Laval would be the only solution for a Mtl area team. It's on a separate island and city which would make it THEIR team and a rivalry team and not the little brother in a lower league (as some would say).

[Kingston]

16 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

That's why Laval would be the only solution for a Mtl area team. It's on a separate island and city which would make it THEIR team and a rivalry team and not the little brother in a lower league (as some would say).

It is probably the best option if someone wanted to try a Montreal area team.  I'm not convinced being anywhere in the Montreal metro area is going to work, though.  Certainly York got nowhere even though they clearly defined themselves as different from Toronto and are a long way (relatively speaking) from BMO.  I think most casual fans even in Laval would still hop the metro for Stade Saputo.  

[fil]

6 hours ago, vancanman said:

I'm expecting an announcement in a couple of weeks...oh, no wait, it's not still 2019 is it?

Patience, wait just a few weeks longer...

 

Edited March 22 by fil

[K Edgar]

OneSoccer adding a French only show - in advance of a Quebec CanPL team???

[themodelcitizen]

I wonder if direct flights are an issue as well, we've almost maxed out the convenient cities. Do VFC fly out of Abby? But it might not be easy to ship 25+ people around connecting flights all the time if it's a "smaller" market like QC, Moncton, Windsor, etc

[JamboAl]

On 4/9/2024 at 10:11 AM, K Edgar said:

OneSoccer adding a French only show - in advance of a Quebec CanPL team???

I listened to this show and it’s pretty good.  It’ll be interesting to see what guests they will be able to get, main suspects would be someone like Patrice Bernier or Patrick Leduc (but all likely from the CF Montreal angle).
Time will tell whether the content will be one small step into a Quebec CPL team.  It will take a lot more than that, in my opinion.  Specifically, money and a market that is not within shouting distance of Montreal.

[gator]

1 hour ago, themodelcitizen said:

I wonder if direct flights are an issue as well, we've almost maxed out the convenient cities. Do VFC fly out of Abby? But it might not be easy to ship 25+ people around connecting flights all the time if it's a "smaller" market like QC, Moncton, Windsor, etc

Windsor for example is about 3 hours from Hamilton International which Westjet uses, not much further from Pearson but potentially longer in traffic, I would think any Quebec franchise wouldn't be real far from Quebec City or Montreal! Is that too far of a ground transfer, could we then claim we are a "Bus League"?

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

I wonder if direct flights are an issue as well, we've almost maxed out the convenient cities. Do VFC fly out of Abby? But it might not be easy to ship 25+ people around connecting flights all the time if it's a "smaller" market like QC, Moncton, Windsor, etc

VFC at Willoughby is really not that far from Vancouver International, it is only slightly closer to Abbotsford, and depending where players live, it may be equidistant. So that is not an issue, it may simply be a second option. 

If Pacific leave from their stadium to go together to the Victoria airport, that is a longer trip. 

I have no idea if they all go and return together in a bus, if they are flexible, what the set-up is.

[Mihairokov]

This reminds me that airport options in KWC and London are incredibly awkward and almost always require a drive to Pearson. I wonder if that's a bigger hurdle than i've previously thought.

[shorty]

Flying to Kitchener tomorrow, in fact, from Victoria for some work at U Waterloo which I do three times a year. Westjet has a daily Calgary-Kitchener run. I much prefer it over flying into YYZ and taking the shuttle. Options into KWC are fewer but they exist. Can’t speak for London. 

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Mihairokov said:

This reminds me that airport options in KWC and London are incredibly awkward and almost always require a drive to Pearson. I wonder if that's a bigger hurdle than i've previously thought.

To be perfectly honest I think that is far enough down the list that there are other things stopping it before considering that. Namely, an investor and a stadium plan. I doubt there has been an investor group interested in KW or London, figured out a stadium plan, then realized the airport situation isn't good enough so gave up on it.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Judging from Google Maps Kitchener is maybe an extra 20 minutes away from Pearson than Spruce Meadows is from Calgary's airport. This is a non-issue in that context in other words. I have taken airport shuttles between London and Pearson with Robert Q plenty of times and I'm not sure what the huge problem is supposed to be in that context either. Once you get past Milton there is very little danger of being stuck in traffic unlike what can happen at the wrong time of day moving around the GTA. 

[red card]

If people are looking for a different path to financially back a new/current CPL club or a new L1 club with eyes for the CPL, Real Bedford who were basically in the 10th tier of English football when taken over shows the way.

In 2022, Peter McCormack bought his hometown club for less than £500k. He is a bitcoin OG and hosts the most popular bitcoin podcast What Bitcoin Did. He rebranded the club, hired a new manager, got crypto sponsors on board, started to pay some players full-time wages, funded the women's side and said he wanted the club to reach the Premier League. Average match attendance is less than 500.

The club has now been promoted twice including just in the past week and also just got US$4.5m via crypto from the Winklevoss twins. The twins crypto exchange Gemini has been a club sponsor for 2 years.

The premise behind the club's financing strategy is using bitcoin as the club's treasury in the same vein as the El Salvador government & Michael Saylor's MicroStrategy. With their view that bitcoin will easily go past 100k and then beyond over the next decade, the $4.5m will become $20m and then $40m. 

This will allow the club to finance a new stadium that will be needed once they hit the National League level along with other infrastructure such as a training centre and an academy.

There are now 4 non-league football clubs being backed financially by a bitcoin treasury.

https://www.realbedford.com/

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

There's another club from Bedford called Bedford Town that have a much longer history and who still play at a significantly higher level, but maybe they wouldn't have been so easy for bitcoin dude to take over lock, stock and barrel? These sorts of stories seldom end well when the rich dude tires of his new toy. Not good when the entire existence of a club or league depends on the whims of one rich dude or a handful of rich dudes and the operation isn't sustainable without regular cash injections from them. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:24 PM by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Watchmen]

45 minutes ago, red card said:

If people are looking for a different path to financially back a new/current CPL club or a new L1 club with eyes for the CPL, Real Bedford who were basically in the 10th tier of English football when taken over shows the way.

In 2022, Peter McCormack bought his hometown club for less than £500k. He is a bitcoin OG and hosts the most popular bitcoin podcast What Bitcoin Did. He rebranded the club, hired a new manager, got crypto sponsors on board, started to pay some players full-time wages, funded the women's side and said he wanted the club to reach the Premier League. Average match attendance is less than 500.

The club has now been promoted twice including just in the past week and also just got US$4.5m via crypto from the Winklevoss twins. The twins crypto exchange Gemini has been a club sponsor for 2 years.

The premise behind the club's financing strategy is using bitcoin as the club's treasury in the same vein as the El Salvador government & Michael Saylor's MicroStrategy. With their view that bitcoin will easily go past 100k and then beyond over the next decade, the $4.5m will become $20m and then $40m. 

This will allow the club to finance a new stadium that will be needed once they hit the National League level along with other infrastructure such as a training centre and an academy.

There are now 4 non-league football clubs being backed financially by a bitcoin treasury.

https://www.realbedford.com/

Here's another perspective. 

Crypto Bros Bought an English Football Team. It Isn't Going Well.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjkgqm/crypto-bros-bought-crawley-town-fc-wagmi-out

[Big_M]

that was last year...theyve now had the same coach for a year and are 8th in league two which is higher than when they took over

[Watchmen]

1 hour ago, Big_M said:

that was last year...theyve now had the same coach for a year and are 8th in league two which is higher than when they took over

Yeah, it came up on The Guardian podcast today. The owners finally stopped meddling.

Edit: I think my main point here is that I don't think crypto is the solution, and it doesn't mean anything if you don't have a quality owner. I mean, spending is apparently out of control in the lower divisions right now with all sorts of owners trying to be "the new Wrexham" and it's not going to work out for almost all of them.

Edited Wednesday at 09:40 PM by Watchmen