Octavio Zambrano

[HochelagaFC]

Some here also seem to glorify a bit his tenure. After Floro his tactics were a breath of fresh air but he was not perfect either. 
 

He paired Jakovic and Vittoria at CB against Jamaica at the 1/4 final of the 2017 Gold Cup and they got torched for pace and we lost 2-1 because of that. I remember being pissed when seeing the starting lineup, what happened after was so predictable. 
 

 

[InglewoodJack]

57 minutes ago, costarg said:

Gawd, this is accurate.  Change your handle to The Oracle @InglewoodJack

 

On 6/30/2022 at 10:58 AM, InglewoodJack said:

I think the next 6-12 months is going to be the most consequential time in Herdman's career. As it stands, our program peaked after those two undefeated windows, and since then, we're 2-3, dropped about 10 spots on the world ranking, should've probably won at least 1 or 2 of those Ls, the stuff about Iran, then Panama (not chiefly Herdman's fault, but still reflects on the program). Let's say the worst happens and we get blanked 3 straight games in Qatar which isn't completely out of the realm of possibilities. All of a sudden, it's January 2023, and our success is now reframed as Canada sneaking in to a world cup as one of the worst teams all because FIFA let us play games in arctic conditions and we were lucky that a couple latin american teams are currently experiencing dry spells- even at that, since we beat them, Costa Rica has 8 wins, 1 loss and one draw, so are we even a top 3 concacaf nation anymore? 

 

This is all doom and gloom and even if we lose by 6 goals in every world cup game, Herdman is still a hero for what he's done for both national teams- he should be the first guy to get a statute outside of our future national team training grounds- hell, they should name the complex after him, but I think his lustre is beginning to wear off- not completely his fault, but he's going to need to score a couple wins in 2022 if he wants to not only steer this program in the right direction, but ultimately move on to bigger and better things, whether it's as a club manager or for a stronger international side some time down the line.

I don't even remember writing this part, but I think I made a post with this exact sentence like yesterday, lmao. I am proud of being right about him needing to score some wins if he wants to advance his career and move to a bigger club- he had no such wins and now he's moving to TFC. Checks out perfectly.

[BearcatSA]

14 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

 

I don't even remember writing this part, but I think I made a post with this exact sentence like yesterday, lmao. I am proud of being right about him needing to score some wins if he wants to advance his career and move to a bigger club- he had no such wins and now he's moving to TFC. Checks out perfectly.

Since the New Zealnd MNT affair in Jan/Feb, to which other job in the men's game has he been linked?

 

[InglewoodJack]

14 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Since the New Zealnd MNT affair in Jan/Feb, to which other job in the men's game has he been linked?

 

It was a joke that if Canada performed better, he'd have offers from big clubs, but now he has to settle for TFC.

[Dominic94]

I asked around on this one awhile back, and I remember Rollins told me the real reason he was canned will never get out, but that they really did have to fire him.

 

Rollins was very against the move at the time if I’m correct.

[El Diego]

I heard something specific from someone I trust that occurred. In and of itself it is not something you'd fire him over, but it was extremely unprofessional and I interpreted that it was one example of a general pattern

I'm usually cautious with "where there's smoke there's fire", but OZ had a LOT of smoke

[RJB]

44 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

I asked around on this one awhile back, and I remember Rollins told me the real reason he was canned will never get out, but that they really did have to fire him.

 

Rollins was very against the move at the time if I’m correct.

Surely we can know now!?  If @Duane Rollins doesn't think he should have been canned, then it can't have been terrible and I think we can know the reasons. @VinceA gave some reasons a page back that are helpful, but those are reasons that we should be allowed to know.  Spill the beans, someone please!!!

[RJB]

9 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I heard something specific from someone I trust that occurred. In and of itself it is not something you'd fire him over, but it was extremely unprofessional and I interpreted that it was one example of a general pattern

I'm usually cautious with "where there's smoke there's fire", but OZ had a LOT of smoke

Has there ever been reporting on some facts?  Seriously, he wasn't fired because it was "smokey," he was fired for reasons. It's crazy that there's been no reporting, just speculation. 

[costarg]

I dunno guys, we're seeing indictments of a former US president, the most powerful man in Hollywood taken down and a lot more crazy stuff.  You're telling me Zambrano did something soo bad that the CSA felt they need to bury the story?  I'm not buying it.  Sounds more like they just planted smoke here and there with their connections and inside their little club house and wanted him to leave to make room for the next guy they was playing nice at the time.  

Remember, we all know Zambrano was trying hard to change things back then and wasn't shy to speak up, he was shaking things that people did not want shook.  Herdman was the nice guy playing along, looking for a promotion at the time, and now he's also taken the same stance and speaking out.  

Edited August 23, 2023 by costarg

[narduch]

30 minutes ago, costarg said:

I dunno guys, we're seeing indictments of a former US president, the most powerful man in Hollywood taken down and a lot more crazy stuff.  You're telling me Zambrano did something soo bad that the CSA felt they need to bury the story?  I'm not buying it.  Sounds more like they just planted smoke here and there with their connections and inside their little club house and wanted him to leave to make room for the next guy they was playing nice at the time.  

Remember, we all know Zambrano was trying hard to change things back then and wasn't shy to speak up, he was shaking things that people did not want shook.  Herdman was the nice guy playing along, looking for a promotion at the time, and now he's also taken the same stance and speaking out.  

Reminds me a lot of how NHL local beat writers will rip a player after he is traded. But never said a peep while they were playing for that team.

[Onelessstar]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I dunno guys, we're seeing indictments of a former US president, the most powerful man in Hollywood taken down and a lot more crazy stuff.  You're telling me Zambrano did something soo bad that the CSA felt they need to bury the story?  I'm not buying it.  Sounds more like they just planted smoke here and there with their connections and inside their little club house and wanted him to leave to make room for the next guy they was playing nice at the time.  

Remember, we all know Zambrano was trying hard to change things back then and wasn't shy to speak up, he was shaking things that people did not want shook.  Herdman was the nice guy playing along, looking for a promotion at the time, and now he's also taken the same stance and speaking out.  

Well, it seems that sports organizations, perhaps soccer teams most significantly lately, are not above burying stories when it would just be better to just bring issues to light. Penn State, Crewe Alexandra, Chicago Blackhawks, USA Gymnastics, Whitecaps, Timbers/Thorns, US Collegiate Soccer, many other NWSL teams.... Who really knows. I'm sure both theories carry some truth.

[Dominic94]

3 hours ago, RJB said:

Surely we can know now!?  If @Duane Rollins doesn't think he should have been canned, then it can't have been terrible and I think we can know the reasons. @VinceA gave some reasons a page back that are helpful, but those are reasons that we should be allowed to know.  Spill the beans, someone please!!!

Let me be specific, in the moment with little known he wasn’t thrilled with the J.H appointment. 
 

later on I asked him about it and he said that the real reason won’t come out but they had to can him.

[Bison44]

If he got canned because Herdman pulled a power play to get the job and CSA knuckled under, then it isnt going to come out while Herdman is still there eh??  They had to fire him, but I cant say why exactly.  Because Herdman has been successful and no one wants to talk about how he got the job. 

[The Ref]

27 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

If he got canned because Herdman pulled a power play to get the job and CSA knuckled under, then it isnt going to come out while Herdman is still there eh??  They had to fire him, but I cant say why exactly.  Because Herdman has been successful and no one wants to talk about how he got the job. 

I wonder is Zambrano sued the CSA for wrongful dismissal.

[Dominic94]

37 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

If he got canned because Herdman pulled a power play to get the job and CSA knuckled under, then it isnt going to come out while Herdman is still there eh??  They had to fire him, but I cant say why exactly.  Because Herdman has been successful and no one wants to talk about how he got the job. 

I think it’s a combination of things listed 

[lazlo_80]

i could be wrong but i thought he was pissing association money on his personal trips and stuff like that? just classic corruption stuff. rolex watches for favortism and that sort of thing? i could be wrong but i think it was as simple as that. happy to be wrong if someone has an update on it.

[narduch]

5 hours ago, The Ref said:

I wonder is Zambrano sued the CSA for wrongful dismissal.

Which would explain why he can't say anything 

[Unnamed Trialist]

How can folks give any credit to the rumours about Zambrano, which have never gone beyond malicious innuendo?

Paid hacks repeating them. Even here, and to this day.

The more believable interpretation is that the CSA created and fed these rumours ("terrible things happened but we can't say what they are"). If there was anything legally improper it was the CSA's responsibility to take them to the police or denounce them administratively. If Rollins or any other journalist knew of any wrongdoing they had to write about them or take them to justice. Didn't happen. Meaning these people are complicit covering up wrongdoing. The CSA, it's hacks, or maybe Herdman as well.

To me it reads smear campaign from the start to whitewash the Herdman manouver to get the job. Which was eminently disloyal to a fellow CSA employee.

Look, Herdman failing to field a team vs Panama in Vancouver, costing the CSA millions perhaps: you're telling me that Zambrano did something of equivalent damage?

The only verified reports say Zambrano wanted to change things at the provincial SA level, that it caused local reactions, and the CSA, instead of backing the hire to do what he was hired to do, fell to the SA pressure, enabling the Herdman hire. 

It's hilarious that people think the CSA took the high ground firing Zambrano when administratively and financially no such high ground has ever been seen.

[Ruffian]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Paid hacks repeating them. Even here, and to this day.

This is where all the CSA money went! Where do I apply for this job?

[Trois Reds]

46 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Look, Herdman failing to field a team vs Panama in Vancouver, costing the CSA millions perhaps: you're telling me that Zambrano did something of equivalent damage?

How did Herdman do this? What, when the players decided to quit the day of the match, he didn't go out and call Pacific and the Whitecaps that morning for replacement players?

Come on. You're talking about paid hacks and you put that in there.  Herdman had nothing to do with the Panama fiasco.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Trois Reds

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Ruffian said:

This is where all the CSA money went! Where do I apply for this job?

Mostly badly paid hacks with their tongues hanging out of their mouths. Don't waste your time.

Edit: I wrote "badly laid hacks" which is pretty good!

Edited August 23, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Trois Reds said:

How did Herdman do this? What, when the players decided to quit the day of the match, he didn't go out and call Pacific and the Whitecaps that morning for replacement players?

Come on. You're talking about paid hacks and you put that in there.  Herdman had nothing to do with the Panama fiasco.

The decision not to play was clearly made the previous day at least. They didn't train. Then the team or a good part of it went out partying late the Saturday night. This appears on Instagram accounts and people in Vancouver saw them, into the wee hours. There were jokes about it being Koleosho's initiation.

With Herdman's permission. You don't allow your players to go gallivanting the night before a major prep match before the World Cup. Unless that game isn't going to be played. 

This makes it even worse. Herdman colluded with the strike but was behind the back about it and failed to get them to announce the boycott before fans travelled. Perhaps because Bontis flew in last minute to "negotiate", we all saw what that meant. The players didn't protest up front or in good faith. And Herdman, the manifest union man from Newcastle, was in on it. It was a planned wildcat, because there was no collective agreement in place it was the only way to do it (as the later threats to the women talking about boycotting showed).

 

[Trois Reds]

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The decision not to play was clearly made the previous day at least. They didn't train. Then the team or a good part of it went out partying late the Saturday night. This appears on Instagram accounts and people in Vancouver saw them, into the wee hours. There were jokes about it being Koleosho's initiation.

With Herdman's permission. You don't allow your players to go gallivanting the night before a major prep match before the World Cup. Unless that game isn't going to be played. 

This makes it even worse. Herdman colluded with the strike but was behind the back about it and failed to get them to announce the boycott before fans travelled. Perhaps because Bontis flew in last minute to "negotiate", we all saw what that meant. The players didn't protest up front or in good faith. And Herdman, the manifest union man from Newcastle, was in on it. It was a planned wildcat, because there was no collective agreement in place it was the only way to do it (as the later threats to the women talking about boycotting showed).

 

So they had Herdman's permission to party all night and not play the next day?  Again, where did you get this?  Did the players tell you this, or social media? This sounds very much like conspiracy theory to me. 

Everything I've seen with regards to the CSA and the issues with the National Teams seem to involve the men putting out silly statements or doing something that sets their cause back, while the CSA punishes the women when they do the same thing legally.  If Herdman was really behind the scenes causing all this trouble, he's either playing some next level chess even higher than players on a soccer pitch, or he's trying to destroy the same CNT program he was hired to fix and promote for 12 years on both the female and male sides.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The decision not to play was clearly made the previous day at least. They didn't train. Then the team or a good part of it went out partying late the Saturday night. This appears on Instagram accounts and people in Vancouver saw them, into the wee hours. There were jokes about it being Koleosho's initiation.

With Herdman's permission. You don't allow your players to go gallivanting the night before a major prep match before the World Cup. Unless that game isn't going to be played. 

This makes it even worse. Herdman colluded with the strike but was behind the back about it and failed to get them to announce the boycott before fans travelled. Perhaps because Bontis flew in last minute to "negotiate", we all saw what that meant. The players didn't protest up front or in good faith. And Herdman, the manifest union man from Newcastle, was in on it. It was a planned wildcat, because there was no collective agreement in place it was the only way to do it (as the later threats to the women talking about boycotting showed).

 

You may have to explain, but knowing about something or supporting something or even being "in on it" is very different to me than being the cause of it as your first statement says: "Herdman failing to field a team vs Panama in Vancouver, costing the CSA millions perhaps:"

Do you believe he could have stopped it? 

[Unnamed Trialist]

10 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

You may have to explain, but knowing about something or supporting something or even being "in on it" is very different to me than being the cause of it as your first statement says: "Herdman failing to field a team vs Panama in Vancouver, costing the CSA millions perhaps:"

Do you believe he could have stopped it? 

Most definitely.

He could have said, and should have said: guys, we have fans coming to the stadium and we owe it to them.

Guys, we did not get to Vancouver in qualifying and now we are here, in a future World Cup venue, we can't let them down.

Guys, I have to field a team, it is my job.

Guys, Panama has flown out for this and we can't cancel on them.

Guys, it will cost the CSA hundreds of thousands if not more, we can't be hurting the economy of the same organization you want more money from.

Guys, this is not the way to protest (as has been proven since, it was useless and fundamentally harmful).

Guys, we need to prep for the World Cup, we only have a few chances and we can't waste any.

That is leadership. That should have also been the leadership message of our captains. I am 100% convinced that if that game was being played in Toronto they would not have protested like that, in front of family and friends. The attitude towards Vancouver, where virtually no players were from, was frankly shitty. Many of us Vancouverites are still fundamentally pissed off about it.