Octavio Zambrano

[dyslexic nam]

9 minutes ago, Keegan said:

We finished 2nd in our group.. let's temper expectations here.  Blow out Jamaica by 2+ and you might be onto something but we haven't beat anyone of significance as we did in 07 and 09 for example.

Yeah, as much as I have enjoyed the GC so far, and am absolutely pumped about Davies' debut and his future on our team, we have only managed two draws other than the one game we would be expected to win (and even that had its shaky moments).  Some people have urged a bit of perspective re the results so far, and I tend to agree.

Beating FG 4-2 isn't sufficient to conclude that we have turned some huge corner.  I like the optimism, and the two subsequent draws were solid (especially considering how we have crumbled before), but the game against Jamaica and our ability to secure a SF spot will be telling.  

[jpg75]

Yeah, let's hold off on sucking our own dicks and wait for something substantial to happen with this team. I like what i see so far, but i want to see more of it over a long period before i pronounce Zambrano a saviour.

[Admin]

27 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Yeah, let's hold off on sucking our own dicks and wait for something substantial to happen with this team. I like what i see so far, but i want to see more of it over a long period before i pronounce Zambrano a saviour.

Are you volunteering to put on a show if things improve?

[ted]

2 hours ago, Keegan said:

We finished 2nd in our group.. let's temper expectations here.  Blow out Jamaica by 2+ and you might be onto something but we haven't beat anyone of significance as we did in 07 and 09 for example.

Screw that noise. I'm talking about watching a team of talented players with an aggressive game plan. I enjoy watching this team play in a way I have not since 2000, and I think these guys are better than they were.

Do I expect, or even hope, that we will win the tournament? Not on your life. I'm a CANADIAN soccer fan and I know that the other teams are likely still way better than us. 

My expectation is that we will play hard, with a new style and maybe even score some goals before CONCACRAP referees screw us over again.

[jpg75]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

Are you volunteering to put on a show if things improve?

That's a show no one wants to see.

[masster]

On 7/13/2017 at 0:36 PM, BuzzAndSting said:

I haven't watched enough of Cristante play, maybe @masster can chime in, but where would he play? Obviously not where Arfield has been playing so in the role that Bernier or Piette has played recently?

Given our current formation, I would see Cristante as a Bernier replacement, not Piette.

From this article that @matty posted in the Cristante thread, he talks about his position.
http://gianlucadimarzio.com/it/cristante-tra-il-portogallo-ed-il-ritorno-in-a-questa-atalanta-vale-piu-del-benfica-vi-racconto-il-delirio-al-palermo

"My ideal role would be in a 2 man midfield, but this year I have played also as a trequartista (advanced midfielder/withdrawn striker/number 10 role) and in the youth ranks I played in front of the defense (deep lying playmaker)"

[Free kick]

8 hours ago, Keegan said:

We finished 2nd in our group.. let's temper expectations here.  Blow out Jamaica by 2+ and you might be onto something but we haven't beat anyone of significance as we did in 07 and 09 for example.

Agreed.  Saying that this is the best CMNT ever is way over the top.  There are positive signs under Zambrano for sure but its not like canada won any of those two games. Whereas in 2003 canada did beat CRC in the Gold cup in Foxborough.   

Even if Canada reaches the semis, i would be happy but would still hold some reservations in the regards to the bigger picture.  This is after all a tournament whose significance is still not fully known and maybe questionable.  As we can see, teams are holding back their top players. Plus, there is no confed cup spot at stake with this edition hence, its prestige is diminished.  Lets not forget that a lot of squads have their minds on world cup qualifying. 

In short,  Positive signs?  yes.  But still lots of question marks.

Edited July 18, 2017 by Free kick

[TRM]

5 hours ago, Shakmur said:

I'm really loving OZ so far. He's taking the bull by the horns with our NT.

Finally we get a coach who beleives in the talent of his players... Finally a coach that has us play soccer!

And not just play soccer but play the modern game!!! I can't put into words how happy I am watching our players tic-tac-toe the ball around a triangle with short, quick, one touch passes to relieve pressure. That is just so cool to watch.

[Blackjack15]

People need to understand that even though we obtained 3 important results and qualified to the QFS of the GC it does not mean that the CMNT will be like that from now on! I want to see some stability, it would suck for this kind of performances to just be temporal. It has to be permanent, it's a good first step but still long ways to go 

[Free kick]

World cup qualifying is the measuring stick.

[Cheeta]

3 hours ago, TRM said:

And not just play soccer but play the modern game!!! I can't put into words how happy I am watching our players tic-tac-toe the ball around a triangle with short, quick, one touch passes to relieve pressure. That is just so cool to watch.

Seems like pretty basic stuff doesn't it but yeah, nice to finally see.  And not just interlocking triangles hinging off one another but team mates recognizing some of those decoy movements and working (on-the-ball and otherwise) with them.  Long way to go yet but as you wrote, very cool.  This is a group which looks like it can set some traps for the teams that are more aggressive in defending.  And there's a a bit of football maturity from a young contingent for you.

Also nice to see after the 1st two matches with no players on the posts a player on the short stick against Honduras.  And a saving tactic it proved to be didn't it?  Defensive corners were a shambles, the gaffer adjusted to something the lads were more comfortable with and here we are. Again, still work to do but trending in the right direction.

Passing grade for the tournament so far, better than passing.  Thursday is an import test, significant contribution to the final marks but I'm confident the man is up to getting the best from his players for the challenge. 

P.S.  No one mentioned "media presence".  That's important, very important and something we haven't had in a manager for a very, very, long time IF EVER.  

P.S.S.  Geezus, did I just jinx the Hell out of us or what?  

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, Free kick said:

World cup qualifying is the measuring stick.

But advancing rounds in the GC would help towards that goal, in ranking points, team confidence, spirit, attracting fence-sitters, fans, media.

I find so much about OZ very positive, in the overall, and the details. He is a quality coach, I had no idea he was so meticulous and smart, kudos to the CSA for this one.

But we really need to make a significant step up still, to be a team that firmly believes in our WC chances. That means feeling and playing like a top 6 team in the region, a top 6 mentality, at all times. Always a quarter finalist at least in GC. And then, when we get to the next HEX, feeling like we can dominate at least two of the six and nab the odd point from the other 3. 

For example, right now, as we stand, could we be beating Panama and T&T, and grabbing points from, say Costa Rica? I think we are a team, right now, for eg replacing Honduras, that could get 9-11 points in the current HEX, for example. Not enough yet by any means.

[BearcatSA]

The one thing I haven't seen much of as compared to WCQ or prior GCs are the back passes for Borjan to thump up the field.  Now maybe the tactics used by CRC and HON could have been a factor and maybe Jamaica might opt for a pressing game in air conditioned Glendale which might result in more balls played back to Borjan under pressure but for now, I'm happier to see the ball avoid our keeper in such situations.

[Rheo]

Sure has come a long way from the OZ hiring where some were willing to give him the Gold Cup and that's all lol

[Unnamed Trialist]

8 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

The one thing I haven't seen much of as compared to WCQ or prior GCs are the back passes for Borjan to thump up the field.  Now maybe the tactics used by CRC and HON could have been a factor and maybe Jamaica might opt for a pressing game in air conditioned Glendale which might result in more balls played back to Borjan under pressure but for now, I'm happier to see the ball avoid our keeper in such situations.

The concept is one I have been familiar for decades watching Barça, and yes, OZ uses it. When the ball goes back to the keeper, depending on ball position, both CBs open up to the corners of the box and come back, and maybe even an outside back drops down and very wide, near sideline, but higher than the CBs. First option is to the CB with most time and space. If only one attacker pressures he has two options, the other CB and the outside back. On his side. All defenders constantly adjusting, even sprinting to do so, to ensure a clean angle for the pass, even if it means dropping very deep. 

If no pressure comes to the CB, his ideal pass is to one of the mids coming back with time to turn and face forward. OZ has two alternates, Piette and Bernier for example. If one is covered coming back to receive, he might turn up again, but the other DM is dropping back at that point to receive. So you create multiple passing options out and you rotate.  We have even seen Piette and Bernier covered and Arfield coming to receive on occasion. This is the coach teaching them to rotate positions, functions and interpret the game as it is going on. 

When all else fails it goes back to keeper and you start again. If they pressure with a lot, you kick long. 

Not all players have the habits for this. James does not feel comfortable and boots up, he does not even see the mid free, as he has no training or confidence to do it, even when the pass is clear. Typically, on a team that always kicks long, the fullbacks just turn their backs to the keeper and run up field, without even looking. This is unthinkable on a possession oriented team. Adekugbe did this on numerable occasions last game, he turned his back and ran up, taking himself out of the playing-out-in possession equation. Players have the skills, but not the habit, so the coach needs to encourage them and insist.

BTW, looking at Concacaf stats, we have a very high pass completion %, over 85% and higher than Jamaica, and our possession numbers are also high. I recall we were 50-50 vs. Honduras at the half, when they really needed the goal more than we did. If you can play out you rest your attackers, who are not fighting for air balls at midfield, facing the wrong way, and can use that energy for more dangerous parts of the field. And since, it seems, our air play is actually not that strong (oddly, but there you go), this solves that. 

OZ is a very contemporary coach and to effectuate these changes, making the team confident with them, in such a short period of time, is very impressive. 

 

[BearcatSA]

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

When all else fails it goes back to keeper and you start again. If they pressure with a lot, you kick long. 

Not all players have the habits for this. James does not feel comfortable and boots up, he does not even see the mid free, as he has no training or confidence to do it, even when the pass is clear. Typically, on a team that always kicks long, the fullbacks just turn their backs to the keeper and run up field, without even looking. This is unthinkable on a possession oriented team. Adekugbe did this on numerable occasions last game, he turned his back and ran up, taking himself out of the playing-out-in possession equation. Players have the skills, but not the habit, so the coach needs to encourage them and insist.

That's the key phrase here.  What are these guys used to doing at club level?  When it's ingrained in you to play a certain way in a certain situation that's your default setting:  you'll revert to that automatically often regardless of what you've been working on in your NT training sessions.  We often assume that, because guys are pros, they should be adaptable to tactics and styles but some guys aren't, and that's what hold them back regardless of athleticism and/or excellent skills. 

That's why I wondered how these guys defended corners at their clubs because they don't look comfortable setting up, especially the guys doing the zonal marking portion.

[paul-collins]

21 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If no pressure comes to the CB, his ideal pass is to one of the mids coming back with time to turn and face forward. OZ has two alternates, Piette and Bernier for example. If one is covered coming back to receive, he might turn up again, but the other DM is dropping back at that point to receive. So you create multiple passing options out and you rotate.  We have even seen Piette and Bernier covered and Arfield coming to receive on occasion. This is the coach teaching them to rotate positions, functions and interpret the game as it is going on. 

When all else fails it goes back to keeper and you start again. If they pressure with a lot, you kick long. 

Not all players have the habits for this. James does not feel comfortable and boots up, he does not even see the mid free, as he has no training or confidence to do it, even when the pass is clear. Typically, on a team that always kicks long, the fullbacks just turn their backs to the keeper and run up field, without even looking. This is unthinkable on a possession oriented team. Adekugbe did this on numerable occasions last game, he turned his back and ran up, taking himself out of the playing-out-in possession equation. Players have the skills, but not the habit, so the coach needs to encourage them and insist.

This is why the games are so much more entertaining to watch this tournament - playing through the midfield - and also why stretches of the Honduras game felt like old times - the hoofball.  Thanks for spelling it out,

it really does come down to the CBs finding the DM as a target - so no matter how good the midfield is, if the backs don't see them as valid targets, the team looks lost.  I'm sure Hutch would enjoy this play so much more than what he suffered the last few years.

[BearcatSA]

I want to see how well we handle a team that likes to play a coordinated press with the conditions and personnel to make it work.  The break downs almost always occur with the weakest ball possession link(s).

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I want to see how well we handle a team that likes to play a coordinated press with the conditions and personnel to make it work.  The break downs almost always occur with the weakest ball possession link(s).

I think you have to work it both ways.

If a team pressures up high you have to find a way to do a pass in the air 30-40m to a guy wide, to break through it. This is harder, as it demands more precision passing from the back. The modern game asks for keepers who can precision pass 35 metres, not all can do it. But it does give you better numbers on the counter if you can control and turn quickly.

So if they are pressuring you, you have to get over or past them and, if and when controlling, use those numbers to push through a weaker defence. 

If a team lets you play out, they are waiting for you somewhere, the pressure will come soon enough. 

 

[Blackjack15]

On 2017-07-17 at 2:40 PM, jpg75 said:

Yeah, let's hold off on sucking our own dicks and wait for something substantial to happen with this team. I like what i see so far, but i want to see more of it over a long period before i pronounce Zambrano a saviour.

This guy has the right idea 

[Rheo]

Molinaro interview with OZ

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/cyle-larin-octavio-zambrano-concacaf-gold-cup-canada-dui-jamaica/

[SpecialK]

Pretty good interview with OZ on red card. It sounds like changes are coming to U20 and U17 

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by SpecialK

[BCM]

47 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Pretty good interview with OZ on red card. It sounds like changes are coming to U20 and U17 

 

Bryan Crisante to cpl, you heard it from Oz first...

[SpecialK]

Hahahaha Serie A to CPL. Not happening anytime soon! Maybe when he's 33-35 or some team pays him a crazy amount of money. I think Oz drank too much moose milk before the interview ? 

Edited August 4, 2017 by SpecialK

[Ruffian]

Did OZ also say part of the conversation with Cristante is him coming to the MLS and particularly a Canadian MLS team? I listened to it a few times and still am not sure.