Ayo Akinola

[Ruffian]

Was there ever confirmation that Okello got an offer from Wolfsburg? In the past MLS players would go on training stints with European teams all the time with no set chance at joining them. It may just be TFC putting him in the shopping window and looking to improve their player. Also for the player he will be happy he gets the opportunity to showcase himself. For Wolfsburg I am sure things like this occur all the time. This gives their scouting team a chance to look at young players regularly.

[badname22]

1 minute ago, Ruffian said:

Was there ever confirmation that Okello got an offer from Wolfsburg? In the past MLS players would go on training stints with European teams all the time with no set chance at joining them. It may just be TFC putting him in the shopping window and looking to improve their player. Also for the player he will be happy he gets the opportunity to showcase himself. For Wolfsburg I am sure things like this occur all the time. This gives their scouting team a chance to look at young players regularly.

IIRC there was a rumor of a six-figure offer for Okello from Wolfsburg that TFC rejected

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

If you dont have a suitable place to foster the talent, then you shouldnt turn down offers for 18 year olds that garner interest.  They should have taken the marks from Wolfsburg and wished Noble luck.  You sit on DUnn, Okello, Romeo, Perruza etc, what does Nelsen or Rutty think?  At least TFC still spends the cash for their USL team to help them along.  

So you should accept an offer because you don't have a suitable place to foster the player? I don't agree with that logic. 

[RS]

44 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

You sit on DUnn, Okello, Romeo, Perruza etc, what does Nelsen or Rutty think?

They signed first-team deals with TFC, so...

[Ansem]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

So you should accept an offer because you don't have a suitable place to foster the player? I don't agree with that logic. 

I agree with you but if you turn down an offer from Wolfsburg, you better have the intention of playing him or finding a place to loan him so he can play, sitting on him is so many level of wrong.

That's counter production to the Canadian program they claim to want to help

Dont get me wrong, I fully acknowledge that they have developed players and good ones.

However, sitting on them might give the team depth and help fill their quotas for Canadian Championship but when it's time for Olympic qualifiers and U20 World Cup and you see the 3 MLS teams spam us with "how great they are for getting their guys on rosters" is becoming an old act.

That's great and all but when we can't qualify to those tournaments to save our lives because we're asking talented guys to perform against other nations with guys actually playing 1st minutes, this is F up. Where are the results?

Hence my comment, play them or loan them or get the F out of the way. Sitting on them at a critical time where they should be playing in and out is F'N wrong.

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, RS said:

They signed first-team deals with TFC, so...

Play them or loan them

[RS]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Play them or loan them

They both literally signed this year.

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I agree with you but if you turn down an offer from Wolfsburg, you better have the intention of playing him or finding a place to loan him so he can play, sitting on him is so many level of wrong.

That's counter production to the Canadian program they claim to want to help

Dont get me wrong, I fully acknowledge that they have developed players and good ones.

However, sitting on them might give the team depth and help fill their quotas for Canadian Championship but when it's time for Olympic qualifiers and U20 World Cup and you see the 3 MLS teams spam us with "how great they are for getting their guys on rosters" is becoming an old act.

That's great and all but when we can't qualify to those tournaments to save our lives because we're asking talented guys to perform against other nations with guys actually playing 1st minutes, this is F up. Where are the results?

Hence my comment, play them or loan them or get the F out of the way. Sitting on them at a critical time where they should be playing in and out is F'N wrong.

I don't like it. I think it harms the development of the player. From that perspective I would call it wrong. 

He is also an asset and you don't part with an asset for a price you deem unworthy. 

We could put the blame on Toronto for not finding a solid loan for the kid, but even then it's hard to cry foul because the player is still doing well. That may be in spite of Toronto, but either way it's not like Okello completely fell off the map, so I haven't been too worried up until this point. That is beginning to change though....

Edited July 15, 2020 by Obinna

[Corazon]

Not saying we can expect a lot more in the remainder of the season.  BUT we are only 3 games into the season and the 3rd game might as well been an opener.  Unfortunately, history with Vanney has shown us that this might not change at all throughout the season.

[Ansem]

18 minutes ago, RS said:

They both literally signed this year.

This is not a "this year" problem but it's been years in the making

[RS]

35 minutes ago, Ansem said:

This is not a "this year" problem but it's been years in the making

I'm talking about Nelson and Marshall-Rutty, as was made clear from my first response to @Bison44 above.

[jonovision]

20 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

Big difference is that Akinola is 20 years old, Akindele is 28. 10-12 goals for a 20 year old does not happen by fluke. Its damn impressive.

It hasn't happened.

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, RS said:

I'm talking about Nelson and Marshall-Rutty, as was made clear from my first response to @Bison44 above.

It cant be very reassuring to see the hot prospects from 2 years ago sign and then languish at TFC2 and have their development stall.  I know the kids are loyal and appreciative to the club that has brought them along...BUT....  I think that was the gist of Kadenge's original post on this, after the kids see a bunch of well hyped guys go nowhere, they might start thinking twice about signing.  I dont think its an accident they are getting these guys to sign younger and younger.   They quietly use the carrot of getting MLS minutes as a 17-18 year old to sign.  An 18 year old might look at TFC track record and jump to europe.  

But they can only bring along so many kids (maybe less kids than other teams due to the quality of the roster), what good is it to hold onto peopects and not play them?  I dont want them to do bad business, but when was the last time TFC sold a young player...Edu doesnt count.  Face it, they buy their vegetables at the supermarket, and let their garden rot for the most part.  Why not loan out or sell some of those beans and carrots you werent going to use anyway??

Edited July 15, 2020 by Bison44

[Shortdutchcanuck]

T

30 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

  I dont want them to do bad business, but when was the last time TFC sold a young player...Edu doesnt count.  Face it, they buy their vegetables at the supermarket, and let their garden rot for the most part.  Why not loan out or sell some of those beans and carrots you werent going to use anyway??

There's been a shortage of vegetable metaphors on this forum and I'm happy its finally starting to be addressed

[Obinna]

42 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

 But they can only bring along so many kids (maybe less kids than other teams due to the quality of the roster), what good is it to hold onto peopects and not play them?  I dont want them to do bad business, but when was the last time TFC sold a young player...Edu doesnt count.  Face it, they buy their vegetables at the supermarket, and let their garden rot for the most part.  Why not loan out or sell some of those beans and carrots you werent going to use anyway??

Because Toronto are not a selling club.

I wish they were more shrewd and sold some of these kids on for a little profit, but that's just not their M.O. for whatever reason. 

From their perspective, they may answer your first question (and defend their approach) by pointing out that selling a player does not help the club on the field. 

To their credit, they have brought in Ali Curtis and have repeatedly stated they want to maintain their high spending while transitioning into a club that grows their own talents. This is what New York Red Bulls do. Curtis was a GM there. Things are seemingly headed in the right direction, but it's clearly going slower than we expect and for sure it is frustrating. I don't like seeing Okello or Fraser rot on the bench anymore than the next guy. 

One thing they can do today to help the situation is loan some of these players to the CPL and they have even done that with Telfer last year. I am not sure it solves the problem from the clubs perspective though. Sure it helps the player continue their development, but if they still can't break into the first team after the loan the problem remains. 

Furthermore, now that I think of it, Toronto do not have a coach who seems willing or able to give young guys a run in the team and that seems to run counter to what the club is supposedly trying to achieve with their youth focus. There is not really a concurrency with the manager and the direction the club claims they want to go. However the manager continues to win, which is the highest priority (as it should be), so you don't fire him. Instead, we are left with the feeling that Toronto is a little confused in their approach (albeit successful on the field). 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Obinna

[toontownman]

Whats with all the level headedness and perspective going on in the past page or so of this thread?

It all depends on the outlook of the club I think. There are MLS clubs that focus their energy into youth and creating players that can help the club through selling them on or hopefully creating stars. Other clubs focus more on buying players. Surely there has to be a happy medium. There will always be an issue bridging that gap and it is a bit of a catch 22 which isn't ideal for anyone. The Whitecaps have been there with plenty of players that have potential but simply aren't good enough/ready to be thrown into the main team. When its a results business you have to go with your best players, especially if you are with all backs to the wall needing results like Whitecaps always seem to be! If thats the case you have to ship them out on loan imo, but then you need those players to make up the numbers of the squad, hence the problem. Also cmes down to a recruiting philosophy that works. If you get the right mix in the first team you should be able to give youngsters minutes. 

TFCII should be serving that talent but it doesn't bridge the gap in between for those that fill the TFC squad. It doesn't seem the transition is there. That obviously isn't easy though. Back to the past game, 2-0 up can be a precarious position, 3-0 and they should absolutely be blooding some younger players. That said 2-0 and a man up... I am still disappointed, for Fraser especially. You would have banked on Bradley being subbed with it his first game back from long term injury. Nope. I hope we see lots of the TFCII squad in the CPL this year.

 In terms of the CPL bleeding out the MLS academies, might that happen to the point that the Canadian MLS academies look at shutting up shop and cherry pick from CPL? Part of the rationale for no CPL academies are the cost and the fact existing set ups are in place. I think Whitecaps are too deeply imbedded throughout the West and it would be a blow if they pulled out. Everything has a cost though. Not sure the CPL could afford to step up anytime soon. 

 

[LeoH037]

6 hours ago, jonovision said:

It hasn't happened.

much like you keeping things on context?

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, toontownman said:

 In terms of the CPL bleeding out the MLS academies, might that happen to the point that the Canadian MLS academies look at shutting up shop and cherry pick from CPL? Part of the rationale for no CPL academies are the cost and the fact existing set ups are in place. I think Whitecaps are too deeply imbedded throughout the West and it would be a blow if they pulled out. Everything has a cost though. Not sure the CPL could afford to step up anytime soon. 

Oh I cant wait for that.  The big bucks TFC shells out for some dude with a foreign passport.  They can give Valour a couple million for a kid from the north end of winnipeg.

[Shway]

👀......Oh Canada lol?

Edited July 17, 2020 by Shway

[dyslexic nam]

So maybe let’s ease up on the smug posts about Akinola.  

[jordan]

List of excuses not to call him keeps getting smaller.

Give me your but but buts for today

[Strait Red]

Herdman call Ayo tonight.....

[VinceA]

Honestly I see him playing for the US. He won't start over Cavs or David but he could over Zardes and Sargent.

[red card]

8 minutes ago, jordan said:

List of excuses not to call him keeps getting smaller.

Give me your but but buts for today

He scored a nice goal last year but didn't do much after that. They brought in Mullins and played hm ahead of him. Maybe he has improved since then but sample size is too small to say for now. 2 goals were also just tap ins. 

Edited July 17, 2020 by red card

[LeoH037]

3 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Honestly I see him playing for the US. He won't start over Cavs or David but he could over Zardes and Sargent.

He's 20, and I see him being better than Larin and Cavallini in his prime. The kid has tools they don't. He's in the same age cohort as Davies and David as well, so him and David could lead the Canadian attack for the duration of their respective careers. Herdman needs to get him onboard.