Moise Bombito

[costarg]

15 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Honestly, Herdman identifying Bombito as a future big player for us before almost anyone else did might be one of his most masterful strokes. I certainly didn’t see it last year and he didn’t look very good for us during his minutes, but those numbers are nothing to scoff at by any means. The defensive awareness bit and heavy touch are things that develop as you enter your prime and the stuff he’s good at is harder to teach. Excited to see what he looks like by the end of this season. 

I side with @CanadaFan123 here, and also need to mention Herdman saw him and thought to himself DM as opposed to what everyone else saw/sees.  

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Snowcrash said:

Most people here probably aren't hard core enough to do it but watch a Rapids game, if only for 15 minutes and just focus on Bombito when the other team is on the attack or threatening in the box and you'll see how good his defensive awareness is.  His distribution playing out the back is also pretty good.

I did this twice, it's worth it!  Way better than watching Chaves and Portland to get a feel and status on our CB's.  This guy is the future.

[narduch]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Honestly, Herdman identifying Bombito as a future big player for us before almost anyone else did might be one of his most masterful strokes. I certainly didn’t see it last year and he didn’t look very good for us during his minutes, but those numbers are nothing to scoff at by any means. The defensive awareness bit and heavy touch are things that develop as you enter your prime and the stuff he’s good at is harder to teach. Excited to see what he looks like by the end of this season. 
 

If Baynes starts playing regularly, Rapids might be appointment viewing very soon.

I don't know. This is the same guy that took Okello to the 2019 Gold Cup

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I side with @CanadaFan123 here, and also need to mention Herdman saw him and thought to himself DM as opposed to what everyone else saw/sees.  

Given how he's one of the best CBs in the league in progressive passes + carries, those do point to DM skills, do they not? I agree that tossing a young guy into a position he's never played at before on the national team is very crazy, but Herdman ID' the guy as a future powerhouse, and here we are the very next year and this guy who was barely playing for the Rapids when he was first called is charting to be one of the best CBs in MLS (very early days)

 

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I don’t think Herdman deserves credit in this instance. It was MLS that identified him first and got him on the map. It’s not like a Larin or Kaye situation where they were identified prior to MLS. Not to mention that he was initially called as a replacement for Cornelius in a position of need. Kind of another situation where a player just fell in his lap. 

Well yes, Colorado drafted him first, sure, but plenty of Canadians get drafted. We have other CBs in the pool with more experience than him. I think a lot of coaches would've waited until he was more or less where he's at right now to call him up to the team. Main point is just that Herdman thought he was going to be a really good player before he actually became one, and before most people thought that too. I don't recall many people talking about how he was going to be a future star for Colorado last season.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

I side with @CanadaFan123 here, and also need to mention Herdman saw him and thought to himself DM as opposed to what everyone else saw/sees.  

If we are impressed by his awareness defensively and what's up the field, comfort on the ball and passing, as well as physical attributes, thats says DM to a lot of football people.  I look at Declan Rice, who played CB through his development. Probably good the manager did something other than what others saw.

The reality is we need a dominant physical leader in the back line.  The other reality is we need a third (defensive with pace and power) midfielder,  Eustaquio has been run ragged for us and Kone needs someone to teach him to use his size and defensive potential. But even then I think we need a third guy against good teams.  So right now you are deciding what hole to plug.  (I actually think our big defensive blunders have come from midfield since the World Cup)

So I guess I am saying there is a lot of grey in there. 

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If we are impressed by his awareness defensively and what's up the field, comfort on the ball and passing, as well as physical attributes, thats says DM to a lot of football people.  I look at Declan Rice, who played CB through his development. Probably good the manager did something other than what others saw.

The reality is we need a dominant physical leader in the back line.  The other reality is we need a third (defensive with pace and power) midfielder,  Eustaquio has been run ragged for us and Kone needs someone to teach him to use his size and defensive potential. But even then I think we need a third guy against good teams.  So right now you are deciding what hole to plug.  (I actually think our big defensive blunders have come from midfield since the World Cup)

So I guess I am saying there is a lot of grey in there. 

I think back to the goal we conceded against Jamaica where Eustaquio got burned pretty bad and they had a terrific chance and capitalized on it. I feel like the the player Herdman saw in Bombito might've given us a chance to save that one. The whole "he's fast enough to get back in position when he makes a poor read" thing is an aspect our midfield sorely misses, I think.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

Well yes, Colorado drafted him first, sure, but plenty of Canadians get drafted. We have other CBs in the pool with more experience than him. I think a lot of coaches would've waited until he was more or less where he's at right now to call him up to the team. Main point is just that Herdman thought he was going to be a really good player before he actually became one, and before most people thought that too. I don't recall many people talking about how he was going to be a future star for Colorado last season.

It was actually MLS that gave him a GA contract before he was even drafted. The consensus was that he was a special prospect. I’m all for giving credit where it’s due but calling a generation adidas player as an injury replacement for our weakest position is hardly something to give Herdman credit for - it was a no brainer that anyone would have done. Even Kamal Miller back in 2019 was a 2nd rounder and still a no brainer because the position was so thin. 

[RS]

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 hours ago, narduch said:

Just a year ago Hiebert was getting hyped

Not me🤐

[Unnamed Trialist]

29 minutes ago, RS said:

 

Wow, impressive.

 Might as well add: is it so hard to see two, just two of our CBs, emerging as top notch by 2026, deserving of a job in one of the top five leagues in Europe? Or on a top team in a lesser league? 

My problem with the guys in MLS is that defending in MLS is so shoddy and the defensive systems drive me nuts. Then Kennedy has fallen back, I'm holding my breath on Zator, I personally think Cornelius is the guy we should be building around, and he'll be in European competition next year. Luc is a bit young still, or maybe just missing first team minutes.

(Though Barça has that marvel of nature called Cubarsi, who our u-17s played against, starting in Champions at 17, what an amazing player to watch, for me the most exciting young player in the world right now).

Edited April 11 by Unnamed Trialist

[dyslexic nam]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

If we are impressed by his awareness defensively and what's up the field, comfort on the ball and passing, as well as physical attributes, thats says DM to a lot of football people.  I look at Declan Rice, who played CB through his development. Probably good the manager did something other than what others saw.

The reality is we need a dominant physical leader in the back line.  The other reality is we need a third (defensive with pace and power) midfielder,  Eustaquio has been run ragged for us and Kone needs someone to teach him to use his size and defensive potential. But even then I think we need a third guy against good teams.  So right now you are deciding what hole to plug.  (I actually think our big defensive blunders have come from midfield since the World Cup)

So I guess I am saying there is a lot of grey in there. 

1 hour ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think back to the goal we conceded against Jamaica where Eustaquio got burned pretty bad and they had a terrific chance and capitalized on it. I feel like the the player Herdman saw in Bombito might've given us a chance to save that one. The whole "he's fast enough to get back in position when he makes a poor read" thing is an aspect our midfield sorely misses, I think.

For me, I would far rather have a centrepiece defender around whom we could base our defence with confidence than another highly skilled central midfielder (even if he has a more clearly defined defensive role than Staq or Kone).  Yes Bombito may be fast enough to make recovery runs from a midfield position, but I would far rather at least one speedy, skilled defender who can provide that same sort of space coverage from the heart of defence.  Right now, Miller is slow, McGraw is shockingly slow, and none of the others have shown the combination of pace and skill that makes them a clear frontrunner in defence.  And all this is in the context of us frequently playing CONCACAF opponents who tend to use pace and athleticism as a main weapon - sometimes to great effect.  

The floor of our defensive pool has now risen to "MLS journeyman" and that is a good thing.  We should never again have to put out defenders that are lower than that level.   But it still isn't good enough to compete in the tiers to which we now aspire.  Maybe guys like JKL, LdF or (I still have hope) Smith will get us there someday, but Bombito looks like he could possibly be that next tier player in the next year or two - not 5 years into the future.  Immediately trying to shoehorn him into a CDM position because he has attributes that would also serve him well in midfield is a non-starter for me.  We have been screaming about the need for a top CB for a long time and as soon as one may be materializing we seem to want him moved into a different position (albeit another area of need).  For me, it would be far more balanced to use him to elevate a fairly middling defensive group, rather than trying to further strengthen an already solid central midfield. 

 

Edited April 11 by dyslexic nam

[Bison44]

Imagine what it'll be like to have a CB with some speed??  How far back do we have to go to find that???  Plus having some mobility at CB will help the central mids as they dont have to be covering for 2 slowfoots behind them.  

[CanadaFan123]

7 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Imagine what it'll be like to have a CB with some speed??  How far back do we have to go to find that???  Plus having some mobility at CB will help the central mids as they dont have to be covering for 2 slowfoots behind them.  

Jakovic was surprisingly fast for a CB. I believe he was the fastest player on DC united during his time there and I remember him having an impressive track back or two for us. 

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, RS said:

 

Just saw a follow up that said his speed in that last clip is the highest speed recorded in MLS this season. You can tell the ball carrier is baffled that his easy ball on the left suddenly disappears.

Edited April 11 by CanadaFan123

[Kadenge]

3 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Just saw a follow up that said his speed in that last clip is the highest speed recorded in MLS this season. You can tell the ball carrier is baffled that his easy ball on the left suddenly disappears.

Not surprising. He looked like a 100M sprinter. Incredible. We sorely lack pace with our CBs and Staq is not quick either. How many goals have we  conceded on route 1 passes? 2 in WC22 and a few more during WCQ. We got burned for pace on the Reyna/Balogun combo goal in CNL23. With his height, MB should also improve our set piece defending. 🤞 

[Dominic94]

Impressive speed and that will take him to a higher level book it.

 

Think MacNoughton is gonna surprise people.

[dyslexic nam]

2 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Think MacNoughton is gonna surprise people.

I hope this is true.  But he is also 29 so I am not sure there is much more growth potential.  Maybe he is going to quietly become a top MLS CB but the clock is ticking on him to make any sort of substantial steps forward in terms of skills. 

I don't want to overly value youth/potential over real world results, but a 29 year old is usually pretty damn close to the finished product where what you see is what you get.  

[costarg]

4 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

The reality is we need a dominant physical leader in the back line.  The other reality is we need a third (defensive with pace and power) midfielder, 

Yup, we need both, but we're in dire need of a solid CB, so plugging our potential best CB at DM would be kinda weird.  Agree that a few goals against have started at the middle, also true a good and well positioned CB could have and should have stopped some.  We're "ok" in the middle (2/3), we can't say the same about CB's at the moment, best we can offer is a patchwork.  I feel this will change fairly quickly.

 

[kacbru]

5 hours ago, RS said:

 

Why is he always so far out of position?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding...

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Not me🤐

True, but you should have chosen a different emoji, because tight lipped is not how I would describe your attitude toward Herbert

[Unnamed Trialist]

40 minutes ago, Obinna said:

True, but you should have chosen a different emoji, because tight lipped is not how I would describe your attitude toward Herbert

😷

[Obinna]

Like everyone here I am impressed with Bombito and encouraging by his growth. 

What is the next role for him now in the National team? Reliable Sub? Locked in Starter? Swiss Army knife? There's a few way I can see this going. 

I don't see how he won't be useful. The question is when and where do we see him? Does he start in the Copa America or these next friendlies? Well the friendlies are the time to test players out, with little to nothing on the line, seems like a time to give Bombito 90.

There's also Ahmed, Choniere, Millar and Schaffleburg we could also say this about. Where is Bombito in the priority list? I don't think he bumps Johnston out of the starting line up, nor do I see him in the Vitoria/Waterman role.

My prediction is that we see him get some kind of action in the friendlies and come into his own in he Copa, whatever that looks like for him. Maybe find a way to be a starter or have an impact as a sub. We'll see him become more important to Canada than he is today.

[Kadenge]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Like everyone here I am impressed with Bombito and encouraging by his growth. 

What is the next role for him now in the National team? Reliable Sub? Locked in Starter? Swiss Army knife? There's a few way I can see this going. 

I don't see how he won't be useful. The question is when and where do we see him? Does he start in the Copa America or these next friendlies? Well the friendlies are the time to test players out, with little to nothing on the line, seems like a time to give Bombito 90.

There's also Ahmed, Choniere, Millar and Schaffleburg we could also say this about. Where is Bombito in the priority list? I don't think he bumps Johnston out of the starting line up, nor do I see him in the Vitoria/Waterman role.

My prediction is that we see him get some kind of action in the friendlies and come into his own in he Copa, whatever that looks like for him. Maybe find a way to be a starter or have an impact as a sub. We'll see him become more important to Canada than he is today.

 Someone posted that we may have to go with a 451 set up vs the Netherlands, France? and Argentina. He could slot in at RCB with AJ at RB. It would be a bit of a baptism of fire, but he is starting every game for Colorado and he gives us pace and height that we lack at CB.  Damn the torpedoes and go for it. 

[costarg]

29 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Like everyone here I am impressed with Bombito and encouraging by his growth. 

What is the next role for him now in the National team? Reliable Sub? Locked in Starter? Swiss Army knife? There's a few way I can see this going. 

I don't see how he won't be useful. The question is when and where do we see him? Does he start in the Copa America or these next friendlies? Well the friendlies are the time to test players out, with little to nothing on the line, seems like a time to give Bombito 90.

There's also Ahmed, Choniere, Millar and Schaffleburg we could also say this about. Where is Bombito in the priority list? I don't think he bumps Johnston out of the starting line up, nor do I see him in the Vitoria/Waterman role.

My prediction is that we see him get some kind of action in the friendlies and come into his own in he Copa, whatever that looks like for him. Maybe find a way to be a starter or have an impact as a sub. We'll see him become more important to Canada than he is today.

Like @Kadenge says, the answer is pretty obvious even though a few on here might not like it.  4-5-1 was the logical and reasonable approach even 2 years ago.  Going into the next matches with 2 strikers would be pretty crazy, just like benching a stronger player in order to field a less talented CB to cover a weakness.  Soccer doesn't work that way, just like 3 strikers doesn't get you more goals, 3 CB's doesn't assure less GA.  Unfortunately the years have passed and Vitoria is not that general anymore, and we don't have a developed CB to take that role cause we were soo stubborn and stuck with Vitoria for too long in the first place.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Like @Kadenge says, the answer is pretty obvious even though a few on here might not like it.  4-5-1 was the logical and reasonable approach even 2 years ago.  Going into the next matches with 2 strikers would be pretty crazy, just like benching a stronger player in order to field a less talented CB to cover a weakness.  Soccer doesn't work that way, just like 3 strikers doesn't get you more goals, 3 CB's doesn't assure less GA.  Unfortunately the years have passed and Vitoria is not that general anymore, and we don't have a developed CB to take that role cause we were soo stubborn and stuck with Vitoria for too long in the first place.

I guess again "the answer is pretty obvious," is not true when they are numerous approaches to games.

I just watched the Leverkusen centre backs get beaten almost every time for pace and power by two superior attackers but because there were 3 of them, and they were well organized, they could cover for each other and the big chances were minimal. (I was honestly shocked at how easily an aging Antonio went past them but there was very little support because their offence kept the West Ham midfield and wingbacks pinned back.  On the other side, another example of playing a fullback at centre back, despite recognized centre backs on the bench. Worked very well for 80 minutes away from home against a better team.) 

Again hypothetical templates from us keyboard warriors are great for discussion but real managers often do different things in the real world. 

 

We agree Bombito needs to play and start, at least, in the back.  He hasn't prove he can be the leader there yet, however, which he do need.  Hence Miller there at least temporarily, who has experience in big games for us. We can't burn down everything we built😉.

We do have a couple captains of good u21 sides coming up, if they continue to develop and one commits.  I think you revisit Bombito's position soon.  I went back and look at the goals we conceded since the World Cup, and barring set pieces being a problem (which another bigger body field may make a difference on) almost every goal came from a break down in midfield.