Moise Bombito

[archer21]

11 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Imagine what it'll be like to have a CB with some speed??  How far back do we have to go to find that???  Plus having some mobility at CB will help the central mids as they dont have to be covering for 2 slowfoots behind them.  

Not to the same level, but Kennedy was pretty fast. His injury issues and seemingly falling out of favour has been a rough development. 

[InglewoodJack]

Insane stat: Bombito's run in that clip was tracked at 23.16 mph which translates to 37.26km/h. I don't think there are reliable stats for player speed numbers, but typically, the fastest players in the world- Mbappe, Davies, Kyle Walker, Darwin Nunez max out at somewhere between 36-38km/h. If Bombito can consistently reach that speed, not only is he the fastest player in MLS, but he's likely one of the fastest soccer players in the world.

 

That run is actually faster than any sprint in this year’s champions league:

Edited April 12 by InglewoodJack

[CanadaFan123]

So: He’s 6”3, as fast as anyone, versatile and good with the ball at his feet. Definitely won’t be around long.

interesting discussion here starting at 34:00. If you don’t care to listen, basically Rapids fans calling him their star and one of the best defenders in the league. 
 

Side note: the one panelist thinks KSB is their one player who has a higher ceiling than Bombito. Thinks he’ll be in Europe soon and compares him to Tajon. Funny they don’t really make the connection, or at least mention, that all these guys they’re discussing are Canadian. 

Edited April 12 by CanadaFan123

[costarg]

10 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I went back and look at the goals we conceded since the World Cup, and barring set pieces being a problem (which another bigger body field may make a difference on) almost every goal came from a break down in midfield.   

And yet, Herdman played very little of the only natural DM we have.  Piette got crumbs, I don't think he's ever got a chance to play with both Stache and Kone.  It would be the most logical lineup to try in the middle.  I admit he has not looked good when he played with CANMNT recently, but we can't expect much when you don't get a shot at playing regularly with familiar teammates.  Lots of our guys make mistakes and don't show 100% form and effort and yet still got regular minutes for being Herdman favorites (not a shot at Herdman - every coach has favorites - Biello continued along the same lines).

10 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Hence Miller there at least temporarily, who has experience in big games for us. We can't burn down everything we built😉.

We're not burning anything down, we've played a lot of games with a back 4 and very successfully.  If anything I agree we need to stop the reinventing things and stick to basics by playing guys in their natural positions to see how things lineup in the real world and not on paper. 

Overall, I feel we're very close player wise, just differ a little on how we would field them.  What would be your ideal starting 11 for the upcoming challenges?  I assume we're within 2 players +/-.  Here is what I'm thinking, 

                         David

Davies - Stache - Piette - Kone - Tajon

Adekugbe - Cornelius - Bombito - Johnston

• Biggest concern would be Piette at DM, but it's worth a shot.  This is my "experiment", playing a guy in his actual position.  
• Laryea in place of Adekugbe also an option, if he's back by then.
• Other option is dropping Davies to LB and playing Millar at LW - but I don't think you'd go with that.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Side note: the one panelist thinks KSB is their one player who has a higher ceiling than Bombito. 

Eventually we are going to need an answer key for the various 3-letter namecronyms that we use. 

JMR, JRR, JKL, LdF, ZBG, ZMG, KSB...

[nolando]

14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Eventually we are going to need an answer key for the various 3-letter namecronyms that we use. 

JMR, JRR, JKL, LdF, ZBG, ZMG, KSB...

Old testament namecronyms: DDR, JDG, MDJ The first ones I remember, anyways.

Edited April 12 by nolando

[MtlMario]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Eventually we are going to need an answer key for the various 3-letter namecronyms that we use. 

JMR, JRR, JKL, LdF, ZBG, ZMG, KSB...

Like who is KSB?

[RS]

1 minute ago, MtlMario said:

Like who is KSB?

Kimani Stewart-Baynes. Also plays for Colorado.

[costarg]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Insane stat: Bombito's run in that clip was tracked at 23.16 mph which translates to 37.26km/h. I don't think there are reliable stats for player speed numbers, but typically, the fastest players in the world- Mbappe, Davies, Kyle Walker, Darwin Nunez max out at somewhere between 36-38km/h. If Bombito can consistently reach that speed, not only is he the fastest player in MLS, but he's likely one of the fastest soccer players in the world.

 

That run is actually faster than any sprint in this year’s champions league:

My biggest issue with all this is the guy is 24, we could have used this guy the last 4 years!  I know not all players develop at the same pace and path, but wish we could've been fielding him earlier. 

[CanadaFan123]

7 minutes ago, costarg said:

My biggest issue with all this is the guy is 24, we could have used this guy the last 4 years!  I know not all players develop at the same pace and path, but wish we could've been fielding him earlier. 

Could be the next Thiago Silva 

[Obinna]

10 minutes ago, costarg said:

My biggest issue with all this is the guy is 24, we could have used this guy the last 4 years!  I know not all players develop at the same pace and path, but wish we could've been fielding him earlier. 

We were never calling Bombito in 2020 though, while he was attending pre-college in Montreal and playing PLSQ with CS St-Hubert. Even in 2022 he was only playing NCAA and USL League 2. Too bad he was a late bloomer, but same could be said about many players, so nothing unique there. 

I wish Bombito developed earlier, but there's still plenty of years ahead for him. He's now developing very rapidly (no pun intended), so he's making up for it now on the back end. Bamboo Bombito.

[BearcatSA]

He certainly has the ahletic ability and now we can see how he develops in his overall positional play over the next month and a half of MLS matches prior the Netherlands friendly.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

And yet, Herdman played very little of the only natural DM we have.  Piette got crumbs, I don't think he's ever got a chance to play with both Stache and Kone.  It would be the most logical lineup to try in the middle.  I admit he has not looked good when he played with CANMNT recently, but we can't expect much when you don't get a shot at playing regularly with familiar teammates.  Lots of our guys make mistakes and don't show 100% form and effort and yet still got regular minutes for being Herdman favorites (not a shot at Herdman - every coach has favorites - Biello continued along the same lines).

We're not burning anything down, we've played a lot of games with a back 4 and very successfully.  If anything I agree we need to stop the reinventing things and stick to basics by playing guys in their natural positions to see how things lineup in the real world and not on paper. 

Overall, I feel we're very close player wise, just differ a little on how we would field them.  What would be your ideal starting 11 for the upcoming challenges?  I assume we're within 2 players +/-.  Here is what I'm thinking, 

                         David

Davies - Stache - Piette - Kone - Tajon

Adekugbe - Cornelius - Bombito - Johnston

• Biggest concern would be Piette at DM, but it's worth a shot.  This is my "experiment", playing a guy in his actual position.  
• Laryea in place of Adekugbe also an option, if he's back by then.
• Other option is dropping Davies to LB and playing Millar at LW - but I don't think you'd go with that.

Your fixation on natural position does you a disservice I think.

I went through my line up against the elite teams we will face somewhere, not this thread?

But first point relevant to the thread, I want both those centre backs playing but neither has proved themselves enough with us be the leader at the back.

Burning down wasn't in reference to formation but including Miller. Which then would mean playing three for me.

Others:

- Adekugbe has played miniscule minutes so far, I need to see where he is at. 

 Davies thing has been done to death, but his last performance strengthens my thoughts on the matter.  He is not an elite LB defending good ball possession teams and he doesn't produce enough offence from that position. Nowhere near enough upside to sacrifice what he brings on the press/counter upfield.

So barring Adekugbe coming on gang-busters, you go with a 3 for now.

- You had David in midfield last 451, why the change? 

- Piette hasn't shown me enjoy in the limited minutes he has payed  He was one of the big reasons for the goal that got Japan on their way. Choniere is probably the best option there but again you are sacrificing height in some key situations where we struggled. Laryea moving inside, as he has done in past, maybe an option but he's not been healthy yet, really.  Again probably a bigger problem for me than CB. 

Edited April 12 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[InglewoodJack]

57 minutes ago, costarg said:

My biggest issue with all this is the guy is 24, we could have used this guy the last 4 years!  I know not all players develop at the same pace and path, but wish we could've been fielding him earlier. 

Yes, but like someone else mentioned, look at Thiago Silva. I think he was still in Brazil at Bombito’s age after flaming out of Porto’s B team a few years prior, and only moved permanently to Europe at 25. If he hypothetically makes a move abroad to Europe at the end of this season and begins 2025 somewhere decent, is he really that far behind?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

50 minutes ago, Obinna said:

We were never calling Bombito in 2020 though, while he was attending pre-college in Montreal and playing PLSQ with CS St-Hubert. Even in 2022 he was only playing NCAA and USL League 2. Too bad he was a late bloomer, but same could be said about many players, so nothing unique there. 

I wish Bombito developed earlier, but there's still plenty of years ahead for him. He's now developing very rapidly (no pun intended), so he's making up for it now on the back end. Bamboo Bombito.

If we had played him sooner...

If my auntie had wheels, she'd be a bike. 

 

Centre back is often an old man's position, look at what the Italians have done over the years.  Both major trophies I can remember came with centre backs over 30. 

All the speed in the world can mitigate some bad positional play but not all of it.  We need a leader back there, I'm okay with him being older, maybe a better chance he steps into that role sooner.

Edited April 12 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[costarg]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

We were never calling Bombito in 2020 though, while he was attending pre-college in Montreal and playing PLSQ with CS St-Hubert. Even in 2022 he was only playing NCAA and USL League 2. Too bad he was a late bloomer, but same could be said about many players, so nothing unique there. 

I wish Bombito developed earlier, but there's still plenty of years ahead for him. He's now developing very rapidly (no pun intended), so he's making up for it now on the back end. Bamboo Bombito.

Of course i know that! That’s what i meant about different path. He obviously wasn’t on that path.

[costarg]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

You had David in midfield last 451, why the change? 

T&T ain’t Argentina, Holland, France or the Copa teams.  We could’ve played David in an attacking mid / 10 role vs T&T, not the big boys. It has to be either David or Larin, not both. 
 

I’d rather try a real DM here, neither Kone, Stache or Choiniere do that very well or naturally. 
 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

T&T ain’t Argentina, Holland, France or the Copa teams.  We could’ve played David in an attacking mid / 10 role vs T&T, not the big boys. It has to be either David or Larin, not both. 
 

I’d rather try a real DM here, neither Kone, Stache or Choiniere do that very well or naturally. 
 

We were definitely talking after T&T and if he's an attacking midfielder, which he hasn't played since Gent, I would call it a 4231 - not 451. Very different system because of how you treat the midfield.

I haven't been able to watch much MLS until recently, what does Piette provide that Choniere doesn't, other than not being labeled a DM.

With respect to all he has done for the program and the short shorts Piette looks too slow and error prone when I have seen him with Canada.  Not something we need more of in there.

 

Edited April 12 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[An Observer]

8 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Could be the next Thiago Silva 

Or Ryan Nelsen who played US college at a low level to start but ultimately went high in the MLS draft, spent a few years at DC United in mid twenties and then to Blackburn in premier league.  Also from a traditionally non-footballing commonwealth country which is dominated by one sport.

[costarg]

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

With respect to all he has done for the program and the short shorts Piette looks too slow and error prone when I have seen him with Canada.  Not something we need more of in there.

Ya, we're in agreement here.  I mentioned it was also my concern, but in fairness I've seen him do better than he has with CANMNT.  He definitely doesn't have a Bombito profile with size and quickness.  Needs a shot to find his groove... or not.

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I haven't been able to watch much MLS until recently, what does Piette provide that Choniere doesn't, other than not being labeled a DM.

Choiniere can literally run for days, also quicker than Piette.   But Piette has that natural destroyer instinct for tackles, defensive positioning, recuperations, etc.. that are just hard to teach/learn.

3 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

We were definitely talking after T&T and if he's an attacking midfielder, which he hasn't played since Gent, I would call it a 4231 - not 451. Very different system because of how you treat the midfield.

You're correct regarding 4-2-3-1 & 4-5-1, there are many different flavors of 4-5-1, and like @Bigandy once mentioned, it was a little lazy of me to write it that way.  Key difference is the offensive and defensive phases which differ.

To me 4-2-3-1 would normally include 2 more defensive mids and a play maker/second striker.

The 4-5-1 I used for David at 10 was more of a 4-4-1-1.  For the next matches (in formation with Piette as a real DM) I would define it as 4-1-4-1.  4-5-1 while defending and more of a 4-3-3 when attacking. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

14 hours ago, costarg said:

Ya, we're in agreement here.  I mentioned it was also my concern, but in fairness I've seen him do better than he has with CANMNT.  He definitely doesn't have a Bombito profile with size and quickness.  Needs a shot to find his groove... or not.

Choiniere can literally run for days, also quicker than Piette.   But Piette has that natural destroyer instinct for tackles, defensive positioning, recuperations, etc.. that are just hard to teach/learn.

You're correct regarding 4-2-3-1 & 4-5-1, there are many different flavors of 4-5-1, and like @Bigandy once mentioned, it was a little lazy of me to write it that way.  Key difference is the offensive and defensive phases which differ.

To me 4-2-3-1 would normally include 2 more defensive mids and a play maker/second striker.

The 4-5-1 I used for David at 10 was more of a 4-4-1-1.  For the next matches (in formation with Piette as a real DM) I would define it as 4-1-4-1.  4-5-1 while defending and more of a 4-3-3 when attacking. 

Fair enough.

I think using Piette is bigger a downgrade than using any of the CBs we have in top of our pool as a 3rd centre backs. Miller protected by 2 big defenders is less of a concern because I have seen him in big games. Hence my bigger concern about midfield. 

I think if we actually were to go with an attacking midfielder (hard to give up that much midfield coverage when you don't have an actual defensive midfielder that can cover ground) that position is Eustaquio's 8 days a week.  Like Davies at fullback, I think you waste David's best skills playing him there.   

The another big concern I have about classic 4141 or 451s is that David or even Larin is not Drogba or even a low rent version that is good at holdup, so you need to push you wingers way up to interplay with him.  Puts a lot of stress on your fullbacks or your central midfielders to defend the wide space.  Why so many teams with quicker smart strikers have done the 352 or 3511 (Maradona formation), gives the traditional defences fits but you can protect yourself if done right, as I saw with Leverkusen. 

Everything I look at that isn't too attacking we run into the 3rd midfielder. Though I will say, again with great respect to all he has given, I would probably take Piette over Osorio in a three for balance.  Still think Choniere would do fine and sit but I haven't seen him enough and he is small. Ahmed is another we have played in the centre but it feels like he always wants to go wide and the little I have seen him does not scream defensive stopper. 

Edited April 13 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Snowcrash]

13 hours ago, An Observer said:

Or Ryan Nelsen who played US college at a low level to start but ultimately went high in the MLS draft, spent a few years at DC United in mid twenties and then to Blackburn in premier league.  Also from a traditionally non-footballing commonwealth country which is dominated by one sport.

With his physical tools, if Bombito can get to Ryan's level of centre back soccer IQ, he's a starting CB for a perennial Champions League quarter final team. 

[costarg]

On 4/12/2024 at 10:47 AM, Obinna said:

We were never calling Bombito in 2020 though, while he was attending pre-college in Montreal and playing PLSQ with CS St-Hubert. Even in 2022 he was only playing NCAA and USL League 2. Too bad he was a late bloomer, but same could be said about many players, so nothing unique there. 

I wish Bombito developed earlier, but there's still plenty of years ahead for him. He's now developing very rapidly (no pun intended), so he's making up for it now on the back end. Bamboo Bombito.

With all these different paths and guys going the NCAA route popping up and emerging, I wonder if and when EU scouts start catching on there is a lot of talent slipping through the cracks and developing really late here. 

What would've or could've been if guys like Tajon, Kone and Bombito started their proper development earlier in a real academy?  Not talking MLS academy here, there is a major league gap between what we have here and what they're running in EU.

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

With all these different paths and guys going the NCAA route popping up and emerging, I wonder if and when EU scouts start catching on there is a lot of talent slipping through the cracks and developing really late here. 

What would've or could've been if guys like Tajon, Kone and Bombito started their proper development earlier in a real academy?  Not talking MLS academy here, there is a major league gap between what we have here and what they're running in EU.

This is where the opportunity exists for the CPL to scout and sign some of the young players that would otherwise go the NCAA route.  15-17 yrs and allow them to develop in a pro environment. Its beginning to happen. 

[costarg]

6 hours ago, Kadenge said:

This is where the opportunity exists for the CPL to scout and sign some of the young players that would otherwise go the NCAA route.  15-17 yrs and allow them to develop in a pro environment. Its beginning to happen. 

I agree in theory.  I can't speak for CPL scouts, but having played and coached with some of the guys at the CFM academy, PLSQ, etc...  i can tell you there isn't much difference between them and high school gym coaches spending a few weeks on soccer per semester.  The coaching and scouting is nowhere near the level it needs to be if we want to spot and develop these young players properly.