Victor Loturi

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Well Kaye was an MLS All-star as recently as 2019, and Loturi has no experience playing in MLS. 

Loturi is one for the future, and hopefully the very near future, but I get why they brought Kaye in and shipped Priso out. I wouldn't call it "money well spent" on Kaye so far, but I think both players are better off in their new situations. 

Speaking about Kaye, it's funny how he was maligned at LAFC and now it's the same in Toronto. It's one thing for Americans to criticize a Canadian player, but it's another thing when Canadians do so.

Perhaps it has everything to do with Kaye and nothing to do with Americans and Canadians, but then what is it about him that draws criticism, I wonder? Clearly the coaches rate him, Bradley, Robin Fraser, and Herdman. He's never been dropped for long stretches without coming back into any team he's been a part of. Also, he seems to be well liked by his teammates by all accounts. Yet for some reason he's undervalued by the fans, or maybe the coaches overvalue him. Either way, there's clearly a mismatch. Maybe we the fans have a different expectation of what he's supposed to be than coaches do?

For me I think Kaye still has a place in the national team. I know some want to see Loturi instead, or someone like Priso, but Kaye has experience and he's in his prime. I definitely want to see Loturi and Priso get looks sooner than later, don't get me wrong, but for now I am indifferent to Kaye getting minutes ahead of them, considering we are playing for trophies. People act like he has no business near the national team right now, but he's got 2 goals for Toronto and is a regular in the midfield for them. I haven't been following that closely to start the season, but I don't recall him costing us points. Does he look like 2019 MAK? No. Does he deserved to be dropped from TFC or Canada right now? No. 

I think if Kaye were American, he'd be getting the Marky Delgado treatment around here.

I think Kaye is leaps and bounds above Delgado but both perform an unspectacular role which usually means that the mistakes stand out taller than the good, safe plays.  Both are also prone to a high visibility giveaway.  Had Kaye not already curried a bunch of favour around here, he would've been lambasted for that cross field pass attempt in the first half that seemingly went straight to a Charlotte player in the TFC half.

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I think if Kaye were American, he'd be getting the Marky Delgado treatment around here.

I think Kaye is leaps and bounds above Delgado but both perform an unspectacular role which usually means that the mistakes stand out taller than the good, safe plays.  Both are also prone to a high visibility giveaway.  Had Kaye not already curried a bunch of favour around here, he would've been lambasted for that cross field pass attempt in the first half that seemingly went straight to a Charlotte player in the TFC half.

I would argue he's getting the Delgado treatment already, but point taken 😄.

I think you are absolutely right on that. The function he plays in a team may have a lot to do with it. May even be worse for Kaye than Delgado because both play it safe overall, but on occasion Kaye does like to attempt passes that Delgado doesn't. 

[Bison44]

18 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I think if Kaye were American, he'd be getting the Marky Delgado treatment around here.

 

Well to be fair he would have had to played "unspectacularly" for a few years.  Kaye hasnt even played a full season (a dozen games??) here yet.  He hasnt looked like the past all-star, but he hasnt been terrible, still miles ahead of Priso on a depth chart though.  He can still make a nice line splitting pass. 

Loturi draws clear parallels to Kone though.  Move him up a level and he seems to play better there and constantly improve, plus impress coaches everywhere he goes.  I think you might include him (Loturi) in future camps just based on his high potential, just like when Kone got his first call eh??  You can see those types of guys just taking off like rockets while Priso or Kaye arent.  

[Bigandy]

46 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Well to be fair he would have had to played "unspectacularly" for a few years.  Kaye hasnt even played a full season (a dozen games??) here yet.  He hasnt looked like the past all-star, but he hasnt been terrible, still miles ahead of Priso on a depth chart though.  He can still make a nice line splitting pass. 

Loturi draws clear parallels to Kone though.  Move him up a level and he seems to play better there and constantly improve, plus impress coaches everywhere he goes.  I think you might include him (Loturi) in future camps just based on his high potential, just like when Kone got his first call eh??  You can see those types of guys just taking off like rockets while Priso or Kaye arent.  

Thats a bold comparison and I really hope youre right. Kone has the "it" factor. He plays with elegance, IQ, and maturity of someone who can handle the game at a higher level which is why he rose so fast. Does Loturi carry the "it" factor? 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

... Perhaps it has everything to do with Kaye and nothing to do with Americans and Canadians, but then what is it about him that draws criticism, I wonder? ...

A lot of what he does that his coaches like but fans don't appreciate so much could be the running he does off the ball. Fans prefer the iconic number 10 type player spraying accurate long passes about when he is on the ball but you usually also need somebody who is willing to work very hard and do the unglamorous stuff to have a balanced team.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A lot of what he does that his coaches like but fans don't appreciate so much could be the running he does off the ball. Fans prefer the iconic number 10 type player spraying accurate long passes about when he is on the ball but you usually also need somebody who is willing to work very hard and do the unglamorous stuff to have a balanced team.

It certainly fits the Marky Delgado mold. I agree.

[Approve My Account Pls]

Cap him right now holy shit balls

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Cap him right now holy shit balls

Straight off the CanMNT training ground

[Onelessstar]

He McGeady'd AND meg'd him... yikes!

[jonovision]

4 hours ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Cap him right now holy shit balls

Nice move but the cross after he got himself some space was ass.

[SthMelbRed]

7 hours ago, Bigandy said:

Thats a bold comparison and I really hope youre right. Kone has the "it" factor. He plays with elegance, IQ, and maturity of someone who can handle the game at a higher level which is why he rose so fast. Does Loturi carry the "it" factor? 

I asked two of my Glaswegian mates what they thought of Loturi after the weekend's match, and they both thought he looked very good.

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Cap him right now holy shit balls

I've seen every CFM and CANMNT game Johnsont as played the past 12 months, no one has done that vs Johnston and he's been up against some serious ballers.

[Shway]

1 minute ago, costarg said:

I've seen every CFM and CANMNT game Johnsont as played the past 12 months, no one has done that vs Johnston and he's been up against some serious ballers.

Same feeling. Very true. 
I haven’t seen him get easily beat like that.

I think I’m the near future he’ll be apart of the middle 3 of Kone, Staq, and Loturi.  Nobody is as tidy on the ball in the middle as Osorio, but Staq as we are seeing this season could play that.

[costarg]

Guys, all due respect.  But lets keep it real.  Delgado was playing beside Bradley when Bradley still had at least some legs left.  Kaye is now playing beside a freaking geriatric.  Even Osorio doesn't look nearly as good as he is at the moment.  Anyone still defending Bradley is stuck watching replays of 2016.  We cannot judge Kaye based on his role in the TFC midfield at the moment.  Anyone and everyone would look freakin hopeless beside Bradley, they can't play their game cause they're too busy covering for the old man.

Coach Bradley helped Kaye along years ago, but both Bradley's are just senile at the moment and unable to realize what's happening around them.  Honestly I find it disrespectful and misguided towards Kaye, he's better than this and we all know it.

Edited April 5, 2023 by costarg

[SthMelbRed]

35 minutes ago, costarg said:

Guys, all due respect.  But lets keep it real.  Delgado was playing beside Bradley when Bradley still had at least some legs left.  Kaye is now playing beside a freaking geriatric.  Even Osorio doesn't look nearly as good as he is at the moment.  Anyone still defending Bradley is a xxxxxx and isn't actually watching live games, still stuck watching replays of 2016.  We cannot judge Kaye based on his role in the TFC midfield at the moment.  Anyone and everyone would look freakin hopeless beside Bradley, they can't play their game cause they're too busy covering for the old man.

Coach Bradley helped Kaye along years ago, but both Bradley's are just senile at the moment and unable to realize what's happening around them.  Honestly I find it disrespectful and misguided towards Kaye, he's better than this and we all know it.

Not sure you're allowed to say this anymore. 

Edited April 5, 2023 by SthMelbRed

[costarg]

17 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

Not sure you're allowed to say this anymore. 

You’re right, fixed the original post

[Onelessstar]

3 hours ago, jonovision said:

Nice move but the cross after he got himself some space was ass.

Yeah. Why would anyone be far post in that situation? 🤔

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

8 hours ago, costarg said:

Guys, all due respect.  But lets keep it real.  Delgado was playing beside Bradley when Bradley still had at least some legs left.  Kaye is now playing beside a freaking geriatric...

What does Bradley have to do with this thread? He will be 36 this summer, playing central midfield in a league that emphasizes athleticism. It's obvious that he has lost a step or two, his time is nearly up, and that TFC will/should use a DP signing to replace him if they can buy down Osorio sufficiently. Who on here do you think is arguing with that?

Regardless of who replaces Bradley, a player like Kaye is still useful to have around if you want to balance the midfield and be able to carry players like Insigne and Bernardeschi, who focus mainly on being creative.

Haven't watched enough of Loturi this season to be able to comment if he is somebody that should now be on TFC's radar or be a regular CMNT callup, but think people should bear in mind that the gap in quality between an SPFL top tier relegation struggler and a top CanPL team isn't necessarily all that big.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What does Bradley have to do with this thread? He will be 36 this summer, playing central midfield in a league that emphasizes athleticism. It's obvious that he has lost a step or two, his time is nearly up, and that TFC will/should use a DP signing to replace him if they can buy down Osorio sufficiently. Who on here do you think is arguing with that?

Regardless of who replaces Bradley, a player like Kaye is still useful to have around if you want to balance the midfield and be able to carry players like Insigne and Bernardeschi, who focus mainly on being creative. Haven't watched enough of Loturi this season to be able to comment if he is somebody that should now be on TFC's radar or be a regular CMNT callup, but think people should bear in mind that the gap in quality between an SPFL top tier relegation struggler and a top CanPL team isn't necessarily all that big.

Just read the friggin thread guy.

It was a perfectly clear argument: it's hard to judge TFC mids, like Kaye, or compare them to Delgado types, when they're playing beside a half  cripple who makes everyone work extra and look bad.

You're welcome.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Just read the friggin thread guy.

It was a perfectly clear argument: it's hard to judge TFC mids, like Kaye, or compare them to Delgado types, when they're playing beside a half  cripple who makes everyone work extra and look bad.

You're welcome.

All of that is true, but doesn't really address the parrot when he asks this:

2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Who on here do you think is arguing with that?

And fair enough to him - I don't know if anyone around here is defending Bradley at the moment. He's at a stage in his career where he probably shouldn't be anchoring the midfield for Toronto. Coming on to close out games late? Sure. Playing the full 90 minutes? I don't know. 

Haven't watched closely so far this season to analyize Kaye and Osorio's play next to Bradley, but I trust what you guys are saying because everyone can see he's lost a step and it's been that way for a few seasons now. 2019 Michael Bradley vs Canada in Nations League was just about the end in terms of him being an effective player. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Sums up why I put him on ignore. Not interested in intelligent and respectful discussion only in picking a fight and as has happened with certain other posters won't even bother to make sure he is actually responding to what has just been written if building a disingenuous strawman makes it easier to construct an argument to prove I'm wrong in some way. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Sums up why I put him on ignore. Not interested in intelligent and respectful discussion only in picking a fight and as has happened with certain other posters won't even bother to make sure he is actually responding to what has just been written if building a disingenuous strawman makes it easier to construct an argument to prove I'm wrong in some way. 

I love reading your posts.

[K Edgar]

[cronaldo7]

2 hours ago, K Edgar said:

Very likeable guy. Looking forward to keep up with his trajectory over the next x amount of years. 

[Weng]

That was a great interview.  Great to hear the confidence he has in himself. I’m excited to see how he develops.