Aird25 Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 7 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: I had checked the fotmob ratings after the game yesterday and he was rated poorly (6.6), which seemed a bit counterintuitive since they were 2nd last and had just beaten a league powerhouse. I know they still conceded two but it seemed weird that a key defensive player would be deemed to have a bad game in a winning effort when they could have easily been overwhelmed. Your comment makes me question the ranking even more. I don't think Loturi's style is particularly conducive to a statistical rating. Those seem to favour certain players like ones that win a lot of duels, as opposed to players that influence the game by good positioning Bigandy, Cheeta and dyslexic nam 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 34 minutes ago, Aird25 said: I don't think Loturi's style is particularly conducive to a statistical rating. Those seem to favour certain players like ones that win a lot of duels, as opposed to players that influence the game by good positioning I agree, but does loturi have great positioning? If he did, you would think he would get alot of interceptions and recoveries. I think the bigger issue is that he isnt getting on the ball. I just did a 2 second search and he averages 26 passes a game. Piette almost doubles him and a guy like rodri is 4x. Now i'm not expecting loturi to be rodri or ross county to be city but thats an incredibly low number of passes per game for a midfielder. Cheeta, costarg and Corazon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acid-Tone Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, dyslexic nam said: I had checked the fotmob ratings after the game yesterday and he was rated poorly (6.6), which seemed a bit counterintuitive since they were 2nd last and had just beaten a league powerhouse. I know they still conceded two but it seemed weird that a key defensive player would be deemed to have a bad game in a winning effort when they could have easily been overwhelmed. Your comment makes me question the ranking even more. It's an imperfect algorithm spittin out those ratings! Take it with a grain of salt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 Just now, Acid-Tone said: It's an imperfect algorithm spittin out those ratings! Take it with a grain of salt I just saw that Chelsea beat Everton 6-0. Cole Palmer got 4 goals and a 9.7 rating. Now I know perfection is hard to achieve but that seems like a 10/10 performance to me. The Real Marc and CanadaFan123 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 2 hours ago, Acid-Tone said: It's an imperfect algorithm spittin out those ratings! Take it with a grain of salt Posters will still cherry pick some of the stats to support their narrative about a player, for or against. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 6 hours ago, Bigandy said: I agree, but does loturi have great positioning? If he did, you would think he would get alot of interceptions and recoveries. I think the bigger issue is that he isnt getting on the ball. ... Both these things can be true. Be intellingent in your defensive positioning and still laking for the ball. Point stands though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 7 hours ago, phresh said: Rangers fans commending him for his performance in County’s 3-2 win the other day, apparently played quite well in their other matchup earlier this season. Has anyone been following him closely? He made an amazing tackle at the top of the box late in the second half when Rangers were pressing for an equalizer. The importance and timing of the tackle may be colouring some people's view of his overall performance. I only watched the last 10ish minutes, so I can't comment on how his overall game went. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 5 hours ago, dyslexic nam said: I just saw that Chelsea beat Everton 6-0. Cole Palmer got 4 goals and a 9.7 rating. Now I know perfection is hard to achieve but that seems like a 10/10 performance to me. To be fair, he only made 81% of his passes, made zero tackles, only 1/4 made crosses, lost 3 of his 8 duels and created zero chances. Sounds pedantic to mention when he scored 4 goals, but these game scores are designed to reward for good plays and penalize for poor ones. It’s a quantitative, not qualitative analysis. Similarly, Loturi made 70% of his passes, missed his one cross, lost both his tackles, 5/9 on ground duels, 2/9 on aerial duals and picked up a yellow, hence his poor score. Catch-all stats have to be weighed with the eye test- as you say, Cole Palmer had as close to a perfect game as you can get, so him getting a 9.7 or a 10 or whatever is irrelevant, but if you’re trying to quantify a player’s performance, you have to pick at every data point possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, InglewoodJack said: To be fair, he only made 81% of his passes, made zero tackles, only 1/4 made crosses, lost 3 of his 8 duels and created zero chances. Sounds pedantic to mention when he scored 4 goals, but these game scores are designed to reward for good plays and penalize for poor ones. It’s a quantitative, not qualitative analysis. Similarly, Loturi made 70% of his passes, missed his one cross, lost both his tackles, 5/9 on ground duels, 2/9 on aerial duals and picked up a yellow, hence his poor score. Catch-all stats have to be weighed with the eye test- as you say, Cole Palmer had as close to a perfect game as you can get, so him getting a 9.7 or a 10 or whatever is irrelevant, but if you’re trying to quantify a player’s performance, you have to pick at every data point possible. Cole Palmer scored 4 goals against one of the worst Premier League sides this year, putting in their worst display in months. One of the goals was a cracker, but one was a penalty, one was a gift from the 'keeper, and one was a header from less than a yard out. It was an excellent night for the kid, but let's not start giving blowjobs and talking about perfect games, just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 5 hours ago, SthMelbRed said: Cole Palmer scored 4 goals against one of the worst Premier League sides this year, putting in their worst display in months. One of the goals was a cracker, but one was a penalty, one was a gift from the 'keeper, and one was a header from less than a yard out. It was an excellent night for the kid, but let's not start giving blowjobs and talking about perfect games, just yet. Four goals is four goals according to the stat sheet. If you wanna contextualize those goals, that’s beyond the purview of a catchall stat. The Real Marc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 11 hours ago, Cheeta said: Both these things can be true. Be intellingent in your defensive positioning and still laking for the ball. Point stands though. For sure and I should have clarified. If his defensive positioning was great, then surely he gets more interceptions, recoveries, wins more tackles etc. In addition, if he isnt getting a great score because the above stats are mediocre (or worse) than his score will certainly not increase by his lack of on the ball contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 20 hours ago, Bigandy said: I agree, but does loturi have great positioning? If he did, you would think he would get alot of interceptions and recoveries. I think the bigger issue is that he isnt getting on the ball. I just did a 2 second search and he averages 26 passes a game. Piette almost doubles him and a guy like rodri is 4x. Now i'm not expecting loturi to be rodri or ross county to be city but thats an incredibly low number of passes per game for a midfielder. What do you agree with? You're just focusing on more statistics. Do you really not think there are elements of the game that aren't captured in numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 2 hours ago, Aird25 said: What do you agree with? You're just focusing on more statistics. Do you really not think there are elements of the game that aren't captured in numbers? I clarified in my above post. He isnt the type of player that scores well on stats. My additional stats were to reemphasize how his offensive contributions do not help improve his scores either. If he was averaging 60 passes a game, then his score would be better even if not all of his defensive contributions are conducive to scoring well. However my issue #1 is.... does he have great positioning? im not saying its bad but is it a top tier skill? Issue #2 is he gets on the ball very infrequently. Therefore his defensive playstyle does not contribute to a better score and his offensive play is limited which does not increase his score either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Bigandy said: I clarified in my above post. He isnt the type of player that scores well on stats. My additional stats were to reemphasize how his offensive contributions do not help improve his scores either. If he was averaging 60 passes a game, then his score would be better even if not all of his defensive contributions are conducive to scoring well. However my issue #1 is.... does he have great positioning? im not saying its bad but is it a top tier skill? Issue #2 is he gets on the ball very infrequently. Therefore his defensive playstyle does not contribute to a better score and his offensive play is limited which does not increase his score either. Blocking a passing lane, or forcing a player to retreat doesn't show up in these statistics. That's the point I'm making about his positioning in relation to statistical ratings. Regardless, I gather you don't watch his matches and you're still basing your opinion off his statistics. That's fine, I certainly don't watch all Ross County games, but he must be selected for a reason, right? Edited April 16 by Aird25 Bigandy, narduch and Cheeta 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Bigandy said: I clarified in my above post. He isnt the type of player that scores well on stats. My additional stats were to reemphasize how his offensive contributions do not help improve his scores either. If he was averaging 60 passes a game, then his score would be better even if not all of his defensive contributions are conducive to scoring well. However my issue #1 is.... does he have great positioning? im not saying its bad but is it a top tier skill? Issue #2 is he gets on the ball very infrequently. Therefore his defensive playstyle does not contribute to a better score and his offensive play is limited which does not increase his score either. There are plenty of stats that would affect his game score- his crosses, dribbles, tackles, chances created, etc. Will all increase his numbers and the inverse will drop them. Good example: look at Busquets’ stat line this past weekend against KC. No offense whatsoever, but 90% passing, 8/9 on ground duels, 12 passes into final third, 2 interceptions, 7 recoveries, etc.- 8.0 rating. These game score stats are a lot more meaningful as a rating for a player’s season vs. a single game. Loturi can have bad numbers but have played a good game because of a play he made, but if he were to hypothetically (and in his case, he literally does) put up the exact same stat sheet every single game, the single plays become less relevant and the general trends start to appear. This would be especially important for a DM whose impact on the game is a lot less subtle than an attacker who can change a game with a goal. PiedPilko and Bigandy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 1 hour ago, Aird25 said: Blocking a passing lane, or forcing a player to retreat doesn't show up in these statistics. That's the point I'm making about his positioning in relation to statistical ratings. Regardless, I gather you don't watch his matches and you're still basing your opinion off his statistics. That's fine, I certainly don't watch all Ross County games, but he must be selected for a reason, right? I feel like you are arguing me when I am trying to agree with you. I agree that the valuable things loturi does not show up in these statistics. However, how good does loturi do these things that are not statistically related. I think hes good at them but not elite by any means. If he was elite, he would likely be starting every game with bigger teams poaching him given his age. Furthermore, every elite CDM blocks passing lanes and forces players to retreat. CDM's score well all the time. Lets analyze potentially why loturis score is low. 1. Low pass volume: Don't you also agree that if loturi made double the amount of passes, his score would go up. I'm not saying he is good or bad because of it. I am just saying that low passes contributes to a low score. 2. Low statistical defensive contributions (tackles, recoveries etc). If his positioning is so good, wouldnt it be natural for him to get alot of interceptions and recoveries. Does a lack of interceptions and recoveries mean that his positioning isnt top quality. How can an aging busquests get 7 recoveries and 2 interceptions - great positioning. 3. His value is in non statistical contributions. cutting passing lanes and forcing players to turn back. I agree with you on this wholeheartedly. 4. other reasons? yothat2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 On 4/16/2024 at 3:31 PM, Bigandy said: I clarified in my above post. He isnt the type of player that scores well on stats. My additional stats were to reemphasize how his offensive contributions do not help improve his scores either. If he was averaging 60 passes a game, then his score would be better even if not all of his defensive contributions are conducive to scoring well. However my issue #1 is.... does he have great positioning? im not saying its bad but is it a top tier skill? Issue #2 is he gets on the ball very infrequently. Therefore his defensive playstyle does not contribute to a better score and his offensive play is limited which does not increase his score either. On 4/16/2024 at 4:15 PM, Aird25 said: Blocking a passing lane, or forcing a player to retreat doesn't show up in these statistics. That's the point I'm making about his positioning in relation to statistical ratings. Regardless, I gather you don't watch his matches and you're still basing your opinion off his statistics. That's fine, I certainly don't watch all Ross County games, but he must be selected for a reason, right? Bringing this back up again. I felt Raheem Edwards was not giving anywhere near 100% and made lots of mistakes vs Orlando, yet finished the game with 7.9! I'm thinking (I can be totally off) the main stat and detail that doesn't show up in the analytics and skews the grades is defensive positioning and abandoning defensive runs. Seems like someone can easily boost their stats by not being where they should be. He didn't track his man all match, Orlando's tying goal was mostly on him. Great on the offensive side of things: 90% accurate passes, 2 chances created, 2/3 successful dribbles, 3/3 tackles won, 6/7 ground duels won, yet he was not making most of his runs the other way. I don't think there is anything that tracks being on the wrong side of the goal scorer (is this technically a duel?) or how many times one stopped running. Obviously the coach will eventually catch on, yet the guys stats still look good. Maybe one of the reasons Edwards moves so often and keeps getting more chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted Saturday at 04:55 PM Share Posted Saturday at 04:55 PM Don’t think any of these teams will fear Ross County or St. Johnstone in a relegation playoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted Saturday at 05:11 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:11 PM On a similar note, I am checking the scores and standings in Scotland every now and then and I have begin to wonder: if Ross County goes down then what options might Loturi have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted Saturday at 05:15 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:15 PM 3 minutes ago, phil03 said: On a similar note, I am checking the scores and standings in Scotland every now and then and I have begin to wonder: if Ross County goes down then what options might Loturi have? 50 games under a new manager likely wouldn’t be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil03 Posted Saturday at 05:18 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:18 PM (edited) 4 minutes ago, jordan said: 50 games under a new manager likely wouldn’t be terrible. At a lower level though? Hopefully he has done well enough at the SPL to find a latteral move if Ross County goes down... Edited Saturday at 05:20 PM by phil03 Corazon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted Saturday at 05:22 PM Share Posted Saturday at 05:22 PM Maybe he has a relegation clause in the contract, but someone would likely have to pay the Scottish club to Scottish club luxury tax. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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