GC: Canada vs Costa Rica - Sunday, July 25th, 7pm Eastern / 4pm Pacific - Arlington TX

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Its the bit about not learning anything that strikes me as disingenuous.  I think Herdman and the coaches are clearly learning plenty about the opponents, what tactics work in what situation, the formations we are trying out, who fits best where and what combos of mids work better together, who has better chemistry etc against which kind of opponent, defensive pairings..... ad nauseum.  Even if you give UT a gimme, and say no one cares (players, coaches ,fans, world in general) about our championship, getting together and taking 3+ weeks, a 4-5 game run though with most of the squad when we have played so little in the last 2 years is definitely worth it.  You can see the team bonds getting stronger and stronger the more the core of this group plays together.  At the bare minimum Herdman learned that Crepeau is ready for #1 spot if called on,  

Actually not entirely, because come WC qualilfying, we are going to see key pieces changed. And there will be home and away factors. And because strategic ways of thinking such as " we just need a tie vs the US to go through" are meaningless, until at least the final fixture if you get there with a chance to make Qatar with a result. Even knockout rounds can be played to get to penalties, if you hadn't noticed at the Euros. Not the case in WC qualifying.

But let's put it this way: how much can our rivals learn about us playing this Canada team? Pretty well nothing about our attack (they are still not going to ignore Davies because Tajon is on the other side). In relation to our mids, that Eustaquio is good, but even then not all our possession goes through him so if they key him that may not hurt us anyways. That our back line is not as vulnerable as some thought? That we play a 3-5-2? Even this last point, which would suggest the rival should try to get behind our wingbacks and take advantage of our "weakness" defending on the flanks, is not so clear, for one key reason: if you ask just one wingback to stay back, you are playing 4-4-2 effectively. 

I'll give you Crepeau and very pleased to see that, it's probably been the best piece of news out of GC for Canada because we were not sure. And maybe, also, that if Davies has to be subbed or is double-teamed, we can ask more of Buchanan, fair enough.

So we are learning very little about our opponents (watch us underestimate Costa Rica come qualifiers) and they are learning a lot less about us than you might think. It's worse in fact: we'll not be underestimated and our rivals will play us much harder in WCQs.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

Well I mean... he's already played in the Premier League and been on a Premier League bench for half a season... which is far better than 99% of Canadian soccer players in our history. 

I am really high on Corbeanu - his Premier League 2 games were essential lunch time viewing for me last season - but I think we can go a little overboard.  

He was on the bench in 11 of 38 games in pretty standard times for kids.  The busy holiday/evaluate for loans in second half period and the end of season (not much to play for and load of injuries in Wolves case) period.  He got 8' minutes which is great. 

Tajon is a number of years older and on different level right now because he was beginning to play regularly against senior sides.  That makes a huge difference to me, there is big gap there even if we are talking a lower level league.  For instance: Corbeanu's Wolves Under 23s played in the EFL Trophy against League 1 and 2 senior sides.  They did progress to beyond the group stage with tight wins against League 1 sides but also lost 4-0 to League 2 side Oldham Athletic and were knocked out by League 2 Port Vale. 

I said here and elsewhere I would like him to start against Mexico because of the situation but he is probably getting the minutes he deserves based on his level of play. 

I love the Premier League, did when I got to see very little of it, and it is still, even with a lot of experience following Canadians here and everywhere in the last little while, my favourite league to watch.  However, it is not be all and end all.  I mentioned on the Jebbison thread, players like Freddie Sears (again who?) who logged a lot of Premier League team sheets and a fair number of  minutes in the end but probably should not have stayed at that level when they did. The league and system chews up a lot of kids.  Corbeanu needs to play and I don't think needs to be overhyped.  Just my two cents (pence.)  

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

That is fallacious thinking.  The fact that we placed more importance on a series of absolutely crucial WCQ matches doesn’t make the Gold Cup unimportant.   No one has argued that the GC is on equal footing.  If that is the point you are debating against, enjoy battling with that straw man.  

You said that the GC is not important. That is false.  It is important to us and to the region.  

I judge what people post and what people say. You guys keep moving the goalposts.

One person laughs that the thread is full of more comments on Wheeler than on the game. I point out it is because the game did not fundamentally matter as much as the qualifying matches where people did not care about the commentary because the result was more important. Posters come back crying that I am dissing the Gold Cup. 

It's like your longtime girlfriend and fiancé breaks up with you by surprise, you don't mope or cry or even need comforting. You are back on some dating platform the next day. But if a friend concludes that maybe you were really not in love after all, you get all upset and how dare he.

Well no: you were not really as in love with her as you thought, and the GC is not that important as people are saying. Nothing we see on this board proves otherwise (the vast majority saying we have fulfilled our objective and we can happily lose to Mexico now without shame!).

[An Observer]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I judge what people post and what people say. You guys keep moving the goalposts.

One person laughs that the thread is full of more comments on Wheeler than on the game. I point out it is because the game did not fundamentally matter as much as the qualifying matches where people did not care about the commentary because the result was more important. Posters come back crying that I am dissing the Gold Cup. 

It's like your longtime girlfriend and fiancé breaks up with you by surprise, you don't mope or cry or even need comforting. You are back on some dating platform the next day. But if a friend concludes that maybe you were really not in love after all, you get all upset and how dare he.

Well no: you were not really as in love with her as you thought, and the GC is not that important as people are saying. Nothing we see on this board proves otherwise (the vast majority saying we have fulfilled our objective and we can happily lose to Mexico now without shame!).

Mate.  Give it up.  You continually dig yourself a whole with your logic.  It’s quite bonkers.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I judge what people post and what people say. You guys keep moving the goalposts.

One person laughs that the thread is full of more comments on Wheeler than on the game. I point out it is because the game did not fundamentally matter as much as the qualifying matches where people did not care about the commentary because the result was more important. Posters come back crying that I am dissing the Gold Cup. 

It's like your longtime girlfriend and fiancé breaks up with you by surprise, you don't mope or cry or even need comforting. You are back on some dating platform the next day. But if a friend concludes that maybe you were really not in love after all, you get all upset and how dare he.

Well no: you were not really as in love with her as you thought, and the GC is not that important as people are saying. Nothing we see on this board proves otherwise (the vast majority saying we have fulfilled our objective and we can happily lose to Mexico now without shame!).

You are the one moving the goal posts.  You literally said;

“…the Gold Cup is not important, or not very.”

Now you are trying to partially walk back that claim by simply saying that it is less important than WCQ - which is a point that no one has ever argued here.

You act like your point is proven and most people here are in agreement when there is a very clear signal that your thinking is in the very small minority.  At this point it is some pretty impressive cognitive dissonance that you can look behind you and still claim to have the support of the majority.   

[archer21]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I judge what people post and what people say. You guys keep moving the goalposts.

One person laughs that the thread is full of more comments on Wheeler than on the game. I point out it is because the game did not fundamentally matter as much as the qualifying matches where people did not care about the commentary because the result was more important. Posters come back crying that I am dissing the Gold Cup. 

It's like your longtime girlfriend and fiancé breaks up with you by surprise, you don't mope or cry or even need comforting. You are back on some dating platform the next day. But if a friend concludes that maybe you were really not in love after all, you get all upset and how dare he.

Well no: you were not really as in love with her as you thought, and the GC is not that important as people are saying. Nothing we see on this board proves otherwise (the vast majority saying we have fulfilled our objective and we can happily lose to Mexico now without shame!).

Honestly it just comes across as you not letting go of a prior argument. Because people didn’t agree with you at the time that Gold Cup doesn’t matter, you have to find some other way to bring it back up and make it seem like this proves you were right all along. People on this board have been complaining about the commentary in game threads every game since Wheeler started doing it. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Honestly it just comes across as you not letting go of a prior argument. Because people didn’t agree with you at the time that Gold Cup doesn’t matter, you have to find some other way to bring it back up and make it seem like this proves you were right all along. People on this board have been complaining about the commentary in game threads every game since Wheeler started doing it. 

I didn't complain, I don't think I ever have.

But you are still ignoring that if a thread has such a high % of peripheral content such as quality of play-by-play, we are not fully invested in the result. You are just avoiding the evidence, that is all.

In WCQ it will not be that way because everything will be on the line and the level of do or die will leave little room for this sort of banter.

Watch what happens when things really count (as we already saw--just look at the threads previous to, during and after Surinam: much more was on the line and it showed in how fans here posted). 

[El Hombre]

I can guarantee you, if OneSoccer is still broadcasting the games come WCQ-time, there will be plenty of hate for Wheeler.  To say that it is more here because people "don't care" is incorrect and is just bending to fit a chosen narrative.  People cared about that Suriname game.  People cared about that Haiti game.  People also demanded Wheeler's head on a platter after those games too.

As best I can see, the reason why there is so much Wheeler bashing on this thread is due to three reasons:

1. Overexposure - We've had a lot of Wheeler over the past two months.  While I love it, it is starting to grate on people and that just gets worse with every game when you play so many in a short time.
2. Low hanging fruit - Pretty easy to pile on when a good majority of people feel the same way.  It's an easy laugh.
3. Most importantly, there is relatively little else to complain about, especially after a game like that.  The next biggest argument is who of our 5th or 6th string strikers should start the next game.  It's not like we saw Hainault subbed on when we were chasing a game or any other puzzling moves which would usually dominate conversation.  There's only so much of "Yeah, that was a great game." or "Eustaquio's a beast" that you can put in a thread.

[Snowcrash]

34 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I didn't complain, I don't think I ever have.

But you are still ignoring that if a thread has such a high % of peripheral content such as quality of play-by-play, we are not fully invested in the result. You are just avoiding the evidence, that is all.

In WCQ it will not be that way because everything will be on the line and the level of do or die will leave little room for this sort of banter.

Watch what happens when things really count (as we already saw--just look at the threads previous to, during and after Surinam: much more was on the line and it showed in how fans here posted). 

You're not complaining but you're still coming across as someone who needs to find a downside to everything.  Also, you're being overly defensive when others correctly point out that your successive posts are moving further and further away from your original point.

[Hawkguy]

14 hours ago, Obinna said:

I use to find it a little cringe but overall no problem, I still enjoyed it. They are basically passionate Canadian fans like us doing the commentary, which is pretty awesome.

However, the more I hear the negative comments about Wheeler and Dunfield the less I enjoy their commentary. Funny how that works, eh?

Now I am hyper aware of their pitfalls without even realizing it, which definitely makes for a less enjoyable experience.

So from now on I am just going to try and avoid the negativity about their style and enjoy them for what they are!

Dunfield is fine. He's obviously bias too but to an acceptable level most the time. I can't count how many times he's had to disagree with Wheelers hot takes. 

Wheeler is the drunk obnoxious fan in the crowd screaming at the ref. 

[ag futbol]

13 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I can guarantee you, if OneSoccer is still broadcasting the games come WCQ-time, there will be plenty of hate for Wheeler.  To say that it is more here because people "don't care" is incorrect and is just bending to fit a chosen narrative.  People cared about that Suriname game.  People cared about that Haiti game.  People also demanded Wheeler's head on a platter after those games too.

As best I can see, the reason why there is so much Wheeler bashing on this thread is due to three reasons:

1. Overexposure - We've had a lot of Wheeler over the past two months.  While I love it, it is starting to grate on people and that just gets worse with every game when you play so many in a short time.
2. Low hanging fruit - Pretty easy to pile on when a good majority of people feel the same way.  It's an easy laugh.
3. Most importantly, there is relatively little else to complain about, especially after a game like that.  The next biggest argument is who of our 5th or 6th string strikers should start the next game.  It's not like we saw Hainault subbed on when we were chasing a game or any other puzzling moves which would usually dominate conversation.  There's only so much of "Yeah, that was a great game." or "Eustaquio's a beast" that you can put in a thread.

I can assure you people would still be complaining about this even if the team wasn’t doing well or if Wheeler was only around for a game or two.

I watched the last match with a few non-Canada fans. Within 10 minutes (and without any prior comments on my end) they noted how bad the commentary was.

Nobody wants to listen to a couple of nasally fan-boys geek out about watching their favourite team.

Edited July 27, 2021 by ag futbol

[Hawkguy]

14 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I find it odd in these game threads that there are seemingly more comments about the commentary than there are about the actual games. 
 

As crap as the Ticos were (they looked more like the Tacos), looking back at that opening goal I feel like we caught a break that they were using their 3rd string keeper instead of their 2nd, who was suspended. Nice play by us of course but their keeper really hesitated to come off his line

Because it makes it hard to watch the game objectively. 

Every time I give Wheeler a chance to see if maybe OneSoccer has told him to tone it down. But they don't. And he doesn't. So I switch to French by half-time. 

[Hawkguy]

Here's a challenge to people who think Wheeler is good or even great. 

Watch a replay of a game after you know the result. This will put your magical reactions and fan-like tendencies aside. And you'll become annoyed with him. 

[archer21]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I didn't complain, I don't think I ever have.

But you are still ignoring that if a thread has such a high % of peripheral content such as quality of play-by-play, we are not fully invested in the result. You are just avoiding the evidence, that is all.

In WCQ it will not be that way because everything will be on the line and the level of do or die will leave little room for this sort of banter.

Watch what happens when things really count (as we already saw--just look at the threads previous to, during and after Surinam: much more was on the line and it showed in how fans here posted). 

Did you read my comment at all? I never said you complained, I said people on the board complained about Wheeler. Yes, even during the Suriname game. It’s been a running joke during every single match, WCQ or not.

[El Hombre]

23 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Here's a challenge to people who think Wheeler is good or even great. 

Watch a replay of a game after you know the result. This will put your magical reactions and fan-like tendencies aside. And you'll become annoyed with him. 

To be honest, half of me propping up Wheeler is just to break up the constant string of over-the-top complaints.  There have been commentators I didn't like in the past, so I just turned the volume down.  The mute button is great.

The other half is that I don't need someone with an accent blandly narrating what I can plainly see.  Gimme someone with passion.

The third half is that its unique.  Unique is fun.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

To be honest, half of me propping up Wheeler is just to break up the constant string of over-the-top complaints.  There have been commentators I didn't like in the past, so I just turned the volume down.  The mute button is great.

The other half is that I don't need someone with an accent blandly narrating what I can plainly see.  Gimme someone with passion.

The third half is that its unique.  Unique is fun.

There are lots of commentators with accents that are hard to hear as well being boring. 

The Gold Cup has been on a television station I already have so have been watching there rather than trying to VPN and ONESoccer it.  I get a single American who saw Osorio in the Champions League  and has some MLS knowledge.  I guess I would say things are rough all over.  😉

[Corazon]

I've said it before, but I will usually run the game on OneSoccer on my laptop.  Listen to the pregame, halftime and post game discussions but I will usually watch the game from Fox who whatever other network is playing the games.  I find it OneSoccer difficult to listen to.  My girlfriend (who is footy fan as well) also absolutely hates the commentary.  But again, I believe we need to support what OneSoccer is doing for soccer in Canada so I will always have the streams on. 

[Macksam]

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So we are learning very little about our opponents (watch us underestimate Costa Rica come qualifiers) and they are learning a lot less about us than you might think. It's worse in fact: we'll not be underestimated and our rivals will play us much harder in WCQs.

Yes, I'm guessing you also thought we were going to underestimate Haiti as well during the group stage. Can we give these guys a little credit? I think they know all about CONCACAF and they have shown no naivety when it comes to approaching opponents so why would that start during the most crucial games?

4 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I judge what people post and what people say. You guys keep moving the goalposts.

One person laughs that the thread is full of more comments on Wheeler than on the game. I point out it is because the game did not fundamentally matter as much as the qualifying matches where people did not care about the commentary because the result was more important. Posters come back crying that I am dissing the Gold Cup. 

1) You're pulling a BBTB here by trying to make an opinion come across as fact. You don't know how others and I feel about these games and assuming we care less about it because people are making posts about the commentary is just that, a baseless assumption.  

2) People were posting a lot on the commentary during the qualifiers as well. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Macksam

[SpecialK]

Question- is Wheeler like this when he does TFC games on the radio ? I don’t listen to TSN 1050, so I have no idea. 
 

I think one soccer is great for Canada and the pregame and post game are awesome. I miss that show with Craig Forrest and James Sharman. But Wheeler is just too much and I truly believe he makes one soccer and Canada look amateur. I don’t get why one soccer hasn’t went to him and said dude relax, call the game,  be passionate yes but professional. 

I hope in the future they do a ESPN FC type show. 

[dyslexic nam]

I am done discussing the commentary lest it be misconstrued as disinterest in actual games.  

[Macksam]

16 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Question- is Wheeler like this when he does TFC games on the radio ? I don’t listen to TSN 1050, so I have no idea. 
 

I think one soccer is great for Canada and the pregame and post game are awesome. I miss that show with Craig Forrest and James Sharman. But Wheeler is just too much and I truly believe he makes one soccer and Canada look amateur. I don’t get why one soccer hasn’t went to him and said dude relax, call the game,  be passionate yes but professional. 

I hope in the future they do a ESPN FC type show. 

One thing I will say is that OneSoccer broadcasts need a little fine tuning by the studio sound engineers. Right now, the commentator's voice drowns out most other things, like the crowd and stadium noise. They need to get it so the commentator's voice compliments the match, not take it over.

Edit: I'm thinking, maybe this is a big factor to why people take issue with Wheeler? It's not just that he's over the top, but the broadcasts are set up in a way where the commentary volume is a lot higher than it should be. If that gets fixed, that could solve the issue people have with Wheeler. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Macksam

[SpecialK]

Back to the game. Question, is Costa Rica overrated? Yes they went to world cups and have been a one of the top teams in CONCACAF and won against Jamaica ( Jamaica has been joke in this gold cup). But they looked old, slow and not dangerous at all. Yes Canada played amazing ! Tactics were great. Players played awesome. Not taking anything away from them. But question has to be asked. 

[Floortom]

2 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Back to the game. Question, is Costa Rica overrated? Yes they went to world cups and have been a one of the top teams in CONCACAF and won against Jamaica ( Jamaica has been joke in this gold cup). But they looked old, slow and not dangerous at all. Yes Canada played amazing ! Tactics were great. Players played awesome. Not taking anything away from them. But question has to be asked. 

Not sure if they're overrated - I think most people would put them in the 3-6 range in concacaf which isn't unreasonable. 

Guaranteed they will still be tough in WCQ, especially in Costa Rica. Not many teams will come out of their with points IMO. 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Back to the game. Question, is Costa Rica overrated? Yes they went to world cups and have been a one of the top teams in CONCACAF and won against Jamaica ( Jamaica has been joke in this gold cup). But they looked old, slow and not dangerous at all. Yes Canada played amazing ! Tactics were great. Players played awesome. Not taking anything away from them. But question has to be asked. 

I am tempted to say they are overrated, but by who? Fans and pundits alike are pointing out they are old and slow.

Probably more accurate to say their program is going through a tough period.  

[SpecialK]

4 minutes ago, Floortom said:

Not sure if they're overrated - I think most people would put them in the 3-6 range in concacaf which isn't unreasonable. 

Guaranteed they will still be tough in WCQ, especially in Costa Rica. Not many teams will come out of their with points IMO. 

They were missing Navas , Leal , Ugalde, Loria