GC: Canada vs Costa Rica - Sunday, July 25th, 7pm Eastern / 4pm Pacific - Arlington TX

[dyslexic nam]

22 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Exactly, so that is a lame excuse about Corbeanu... because he doesn't miss his chances and he also creates them as well! 

I'm not going to chirp Tesho though. I thought he played decently. Came close to scoring. 

This is more a general though on Theo. He's been great in our colours... and he's being pushed to the backburner, and I don't get it. We have a legit Premier League talent and he's being benched constantly.

I am a fan and really glad Theo is in the setup.  He will make lots of contributions in the years to come.  

But I disagree with a couple of things. He hasn’t proven that he is a Premier a league talent yet.  Not a criticism of him because he is absolutely on the right trajectory to get there.  But he hasn’t proven it yet.  Wolves may be loaning him out to continue his development into what we all hope he will be.  

And I don’t think he is getting pushed to the back burner.  He is a young guy, eager to be on the team, and getting sub minutes in a position where we are pretty damn deep.  When we have our full lineup, he is clearly going to be behind  David, Larin, and Cav at forward and in some situations the experience of a guy like Tesho may be what is required (versus the energy and trickery of Theo).  

And we are deep on the wings as well, with Davies and Buchanan pretty much locking down the outside positions. 

It isn’t a knock on Theo that he didn’t blast into our starting lineup.  It is a testament to the quality attacking depth we have.  We are now a damn hard lineup to crack in the attacking group. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by dyslexic nam

[CanadaFan123]

2 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am a fan and really glad Theo is in the setup.  He will make lots of contributions in the years to come.  

But I disagree with a couple of things. He hasn’t proven that he is a Premier a league talent yet.  Not a criticism of him because he is absolutely on the right trajectory to get there.  But he hasn’t proven it yet.  Wolves may be loaning out to continue his development into what we all hope he will be.  

And I don’t think he is getting pushed to the back burner.  He is a young guy, eager to be on the team, and getting sub minutes in a position where we are pretty damn deep.  When we have our full lineup, he is clearly going to be behind  David, Larin, and Cav at forward and on some situations the experience of a guy like Tesho may be what is required (versus the energy and trickery of Theo).  

And we are deep on the wings as well, with Davies and Buchanan pretty much locking dow the outside positions. 

It isn’t a knock on Theo that he didn’t blast into our starting lineup.  It is a testament to the quality attacking depth we have.  We are now a damn hard lineup to crack in the attacking group. 

This.

We are talking about a player who has never started a pro match at club level. His lone start for us was against Cayman Islands. 

He should be pleased to have the opportunity to come into a Gold Cup QF against a team like Costa Rica. It's clear Herdman rates him and he's not on the "back burner". 

[ktf]

I think the way Herdman is working in Theo is great. He is giving him a taste as a sub, and letting him prove himself/gain experience.

This is a different time for us. We can recruit young talent, but we do not have to pander to them. The best way to recruit is to win. When new players come in they need to earn their way over the 2-3 guys in front of them, not have it handed to them.  Gutierrez and Paton (in Paton's case probably due to COVID) haven't played yet and that is totally fine. If they do not want to come back after, so be it, but being in the environment and seeing the success, will hopefully make them more hungry to up their game and get a shot in WCQ. 

[Hawkguy]

16 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I am a fan and really glad Theo is in the setup.  He will make lots of contributions in the years to come.  

But I disagree with a couple of things. He hasn’t proven that he is a Premier a league talent yet.  Not a criticism of him because he is absolutely on the right trajectory to get there.  But he hasn’t proven it yet.  Wolves may be loaning him out to continue his development into what we all hope he will be.  

And I don’t think he is getting pushed to the back burner.  He is a young guy, eager to be on the team, and getting sub minutes in a position where we are pretty damn deep.  When we have our full lineup, he is clearly going to be behind  David, Larin, and Cav at forward and in some situations the experience of a guy like Tesho may be what is required (versus the energy and trickery of Theo).  

And we are deep on the wings as well, with Davies and Buchanan pretty much locking down the outside positions. 

It isn’t a knock on Theo that he didn’t blast into our starting lineup.  It is a testament to the quality attacking depth we have.  We are now a damn hard lineup to crack in the attacking group. 

Theo can play forward as well though. He doesn't have to play wing. And I think if Theo was given the same time as Tajon, you wouldn't see much difference as far as quality. 

As for Wolves loaning him out? Doubtful. He'll very likely be on the bench to start the year unless they make some crazy signings. Neto is out until at least October.

[Kadenge]

6 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Theo can play forward as well though. He doesn't have to play wing. And I think if Theo was given the same time as Tajon, you wouldn't see much difference as far as quality. 

As for Wolves loaning him out? Doubtful. He'll very likely be on the bench to start the year unless they make some crazy signings. Neto is out until at least October.

Not saying you  are wrong, but interested to hear what you are basing this assessment on?

[dyslexic nam]

8 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Theo can play forward as well though. He doesn't have to play wing. And I think if Theo was given the same time as Tajon, you wouldn't see much difference as far as quality. 

As for Wolves loaning him out? Doubtful. He'll very likely be on the bench to start the year unless they make some crazy signings. Neto is out until at least October.

Honestly, I don’t think that Theo would be as effective as Tajon has been.  Herdman does get to see the two of them - a lot.  And he is giving one limited sub minutes and the other a key starting role in attack.  I don’t think that is random or arbitrary.  I think it shows what we are all seeing - that Buchanan is quickly becoming a dominant player in CONCACAF.  

And to reiterate - none of this is a slight on Theo.  He does look like he belongs in this group when he comes on.  But I agree with @ktf - we are past the point of awarding playing time on the basis of potential.  I hope Theo blows us away and makes it so that we can’t leave him out (in the same way that Tajon has).  I also hope that we see young guys like Diaz and Jebbison want to come on board and earn their way into our lineup.  But we have become a whole different team in the last few years and playing time will be hard to come by - even for some really talented players.  

[Hawkguy]

5 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Not saying you  are wrong, but interested to hear what you are basing this assessment on?

I'm a Wolves fan. I see a lot of Theo. I've seen a ton of him with the U23s. I expect to see a ton more of him. He's one of the best prospects I've ever seen come through the Wolves training grounds. 

[Hawkguy]

4 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Honestly, I don’t think that Theo would be as effective as Tajon has been.  Herdman does get to see the two of them - a lot.  And he is giving one limited sub minutes and the other a key starting role in attack.  I don’t think that is random or arbitrary.  I think it shows what we are all seeing - that Buchanan is quickly becoming a dominant player in CONCACAF.  

And to reiterate - none of this is a slight on Theo.  He does look like he belongs in this group when he comes on.  But I agree with @ktf - we are past the point of awarding playing time on the basis of potential.  I hope Theo blows us away and makes it so that we can’t leave him out (in the same way that Tajon has).  I also hope that we see young guys like Diaz and Jebbison want to come on board and earn their way into our lineup.  But we have become a whole different team in the last few years and playing time will be hard to come by - even for some really talented players.  

The problem to me is that I don't think Theo has really been given that chance for Canada. Two goals in less than 150 minutes. He creates chances. He runs hard. He's able to make defenders look silly. And it doesn't matter if it's Bermuda or Costa Rica. He makes them all look silly at some point. I wager to say with his creativity we would have had a better chance to beat the USA if we used him at some point.

I think after Theo makes it known he's a Premier League player this season that it'll be hard to hold him down.

[BrennanFan]

Tajon starts ahead of Theo bc Tajon can play defence as well, while Theo is an out and out attacker. 

Herdman plays a very fluid system and likes to start multi faceted players who can play different roles and do different things, like Johnston, Miller, Tajon and of course Eustaquio who droped deeper than our centre backs when he assisted Junior's goal, and was higher up than our forward when he scored his goal. 

 

[ag futbol]

1 hour ago, Hawkguy said:

The problem to me is that I don't think Theo has really been given that chance for Canada. Two goals in less than 150 minutes. He creates chances. He runs hard. He's able to make defenders look silly. And it doesn't matter if it's Bermuda or Costa Rica. He makes them all look silly at some point. I wager to say with his creativity we would have had a better chance to beat the USA if we used him at some point.

I think after Theo makes it known he's a Premier League player this season that it'll be hard to hold him down.

I would temper the enthusiasm here (at least slightly). He’s very young and not yet playing consistent first team football. Completely believe in his long term potential and that he should get some minutes, when appropriate. But I don’t think we’ve reached the station where he’s the answer to unlocking teams late it games.

[Ansem]

I just think that Theo can be such a wild card - and a striker like Akindele is just not going to do against Mexico. Corbeanu is just more clinical in my opinion.

In a "nothing to lose" game like Mexico - I'd match him with the quality of Hoilett and unleash him on them. He might not have played in EPL that much but he has trained with the 1st team a lot.

Whenever you have an opportunity, you can't waste them against Mexico.

[dyslexic nam]

I think people should keep in mind that when Akindele was brought on, the main job was to help protect a 2 goal lead and finish off the game.  That is a very different situation than when we are chasing a goal and need some creative spark in a must-win situation. Tesho is a seasoned veteran with thousands of hours of play in a respectable league.  He knew what his job was and he stuck to it.  If we were down a goal against CR, we would have seen a very different approach to the subs - and may have seen Theo thrown into the mix. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

5 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

....Akindele was brought on, the main job was to help protect a 2 goal lead and finish off the game.... He knew what his job was and he stuck to it. ...

Part of that was the tactical foul that led to him getting a yellow card. You weren't a fan at the time  

Edited July 26, 2021 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[dyslexic nam]

6 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Part of that was the tactical foul that led to him getting a yellow card. You weren't a fan at the time  

I just wasn’t sure if that was tactical or just a typical (late) striker’s challenge.  The only reason I didn’t want him to burn his freebie like that was so that he could use it more intelligently later on.   It just seemed like he wasted a yellow for no real reason. 

[johnyb]

I guess "resting" Estaquio against the US was the right thing to do after all. Lol

[ESG Shawn]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

One thing I wanna say is Osorio has been quietly great this tournament. He seems to be amazing at frustrating opponents over the course of a game with his control in tight spaces and his tenacity.

He's also frustrating me as a fan, haha. He does the difficult things well (like you said, control in tight) but he leaves me wanting more with his passing/decision making when he has time and space in the final third....it feels like he turns the ball over in those situations more often than not.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

10 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I just wasn’t sure if that was tactical or just a typical (late) striker’s challenge.  The only reason I didn’t want him to burn his freebie like that was so that he could use it more intelligently later on.   It just seemed like he wasted a yellow for no real reason. 

I thought it was well used; it seemed like a smart tactical foul to me in the moment, but fair enough.

[Macksam]

12 hours ago, SpecialK said:

The only issue I had with the game was WHEELER. I am all for excited play by play but that clown is too much and his bias is so overwhelming and over the top, it’s just getting stupid. Wheeler has to GO! Can we start something and push him out. They should get the British guy that has been doing the women’s games during the Olympics. Get someone. Dunfield I don’t mind. 

You know he is doubling down on his behaviour just to piss you off right?

[AvroArrow]

12 hours ago, SpecialK said:

The only issue I had with the game was WHEELER. I am all for excited play by play but that clown is too much and his bias is so overwhelming and over the top, it’s just getting stupid. Wheeler has to GO! Can we start something and push him out. They should get the British guy that has been doing the women’s games during the Olympics. Get someone. Dunfield I don’t mind. 

Totally agree.  We should get someone who calls the game with a proper European mindset who knows their place as a play by play caller.  Someone like this (see below).  We don't need memorable calls, just the facts.
 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by AvroArrow

[LeoH037]

6 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

The problem to me is that I don't think Theo has really been given that chance for Canada. Two goals in less than 150 minutes. He creates chances. He runs hard. He's able to make defenders look silly. And it doesn't matter if it's Bermuda or Costa Rica. He makes them all look silly at some point. I wager to say with his creativity we would have had a better chance to beat the USA if we used him at some point.

I think after Theo makes it known he's a Premier League player this season that it'll be hard to hold him down.

but he hasn't shown he is a premier league player now has he? If we are starting youth players based on promise and potential in matches against the likes of Mexico then the program is not going in the right direction. The first thing Theo must do to get starter minutes is to first permanently graduate from youth football into a senior team, whether at Wolves or somewhere else on loan. As it stands Buchanan is clear, the fact he plays in MLS is irrelevant here, it's obvious Buchanan is on a whole other level. And no, just being Wolves fan and watching him play a lot is not the same as being a trained professional in the coaching staff and seeing the nuances where he needs to improve first hand.

So no, you don't start a youth player against a senior Mexican team. Right now with sub minutes he is getting a taste of the level the competition is at, and is not being left hung to dry. Theo is only 18, he has all the time in the world, but right now he doesn't displace anyone in the squad.

Edited July 26, 2021 by LeoH037

[LeoH037]

3 hours ago, Macksam said:

You know he is doubling down on his behaviour just to piss you off right?

Wheeler does strike me as being that petty, and quite fragile too. I get the homer biased, fair, its a product aimed at a Canadian audience.. what I don't get is the need to be a cheerleader fanboy, it comes off as very unprofessional and extremely cringe. Now Clare Rustad, thats a good pro Canada commentator (would love OneSoccer trying to get her onboard for the Ocho)

[youllneverwalkalone]

I don't care on way or the other for Wheeler, but I really like Dunfield, Jack, Humey and Oliver. Mrs. Conrad, ok. Get Sharman in there with the rest of the funny talkers and away we go.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I don't care on way or the other for Wheeler, but I really like Dunfield, Jack, Humey and Oliver. Mrs. Conrad, ok. Get Sharman in there with the rest of the funny talkers and away we go.

The pre and post game are miles better than anything we used to get.

[SpursFlu]

They've annoyed me a bit for sure but overall I like the energy. Also its nice for our highlite clips to go out to the internet world and for people to hear Canadians getting excited for Canadians. I like that

[jonovision]

5 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think people should keep in mind that when Akindele was brought on, the main job was to help protect a 2 goal lead and finish off the game.  That is a very different situation than when we are chasing a goal and need some creative spark in a must-win situation. Tesho is a seasoned veteran with thousands of hours of play in a respectable league.  He knew what his job was and he stuck to it.  If we were down a goal against CR, we would have seen a very different approach to the subs - and may have seen Theo thrown into the mix. 

And despite this, he nearly scored two goals by getting himself into good positions.