Should Herdman be fired ?

[Shway]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think there is a lot of daylight between the idea that we are not going to attract a world class coach and that our CMNT head coaching position should be used for on-the-job-training.  

Im curious, what did you vote? 

This thread should be dated. So the next one can be named "Should Herdman be fired before Qatar WCQers. Because when September comes through to the end of November - and we review our results. 

The 39% that say "Not Yet" could drastically change the general feeling of Canada soccer supporters. 

[Shway]

To me we just have to be for sure going into Qatar 22. We're in a golden generation, where we have the pieces, building depth to get us to a World Cup. A master key piece is having an experienced coach. 

I dont want to "bull $h!t host" our way into getting to a WC again - I want us to show we belong, before we use our North American free baggage pass we somehow typically get. 

Edited July 6, 2019 by Shway

[Binky]

A week has past. I'm thinking much clearer now. Is it possible for me to change my vote?😈

Edited July 6, 2019 by Binky

[gator]

7 hours ago, Binky said:

A week has past. I'm thinking much clearer now. Is it possible for me to change my vote?😈

No! This was meant to be responded too when we were all hurting and thinking irrationally! 

[Shway]

3 minutes ago, gator said:

No! This was meant to be responded too when we were all hurting and thinking irrationally! 

Im still sticking with he's gotta go. 

[The Ref]

Nothing good will come out by keeping him.  Herdman does not have it and never did.

[ted]

13 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think there is a lot of daylight between the idea that we are not going to attract a world class coach and that our CMNT head coaching position should be used for on-the-job-training.  

I know you are dyslexic but literally NO ONE has said this is on-the-job-training. Making the quarterfinals of the Gold Cup was a realistic goal and it was achieved. Now he can lead the team to qualifying for WC 2022. That is the next goal and we will see the measure of his abilities as national team manager.

[An Observer]

I said before the Gold Cup started and after the Trinidad closed door friendly that this team was likely to be real exciting to watch but it’s inexperience would be it’s undoing which is exactly what happened.  So frankly Herdman got us to where I thought we would realistically get which was the quarter finals.  The team has an abundance of talent but is very young and inexperienced. I see Herdman’s decisions as somewhat questionable but likely more defensible than his previous two successors which were often downright baffling.  Therefore I believe he has earned the right to see us through World Cup Qualifying barring a disastrous Nation League outing.  

[apbsmith]

This thread has included theories; 

1) Herdman forced his way into the men's job for a higher salary.  He will now make 10 M from the CSA over his tenure.

2) Herdman wanted to coach the men because he knew the talent level and opportunity. 

3)& 4)

The Vancouver radio broadcasters included interesting theories when they spoke with Alex. Obviously opinionated, but they suggested with the women being ranked ~#5 in world and men ~#80. The CSA simply wanted to keep Herdman in the CSA system and not lose him to another country, especially to a women powerhouse team. Went as far as saying perhaps he coach's the women team again at some point. All very interesting theories.

For me Herdman does bring some excellent qualities to the CSA, there is no denying he is a motivator and a very intelligent man. There is no denying Herdman wants to do well and succeed.

Realistically I do not think CSA is in the position whatsoever to let him go at this time. With that being said,  I'd rather Herdman and the CSA bring in a quality and experienced low key individual that is a tactical genius as an assistant coach. So far, my only true complaint was some of the tactics in the 2nd half, the rest of the complaints are mostly just noise.

I'll be honest, I'm in the "not yet" camp, but I 100% get where the "no voters" are coming from, and I do not blame them.

Let the CNL countdown begin.

Edited July 7, 2019 by apbsmith

[SpecialK]

Right now everyone is talking about how good MAK looked last night. He should be going to Europe soon.  

This is one of reasons why Herdman has no business managing the senior team. Why would you put MAK at LB, why would you put Hutch at CB and use a park the bus tactics vs Mexico when you are an attacking team ! Little Johnny needs to go! 

Edited July 7, 2019 by SpecialK

[The Real Marc]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:07 PM, Shway said:

Both previous managers before him... Zambrano, and Floro came with a level of pedigree.

Pedigree? That 18 months in Moldova? That year in tier two Colombia? The time he spent managing or coaching in international football? I certaintly never wanted him fired but let’s not mistake Saint Octavio’s hopscotch job experience for any sort of pedigree.

Edited July 8, 2019 by The Real Marc

[The Ref]

If we were a 12 person jury we would be deadlocked on the incompetence of Herdman.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

18 hours ago, apbsmith said:

...For me Herdman does bring some excellent qualities to the CSA, there is no denying he is a motivator and a very intelligent man. There is no denying Herdman wants to do well and succeed...

The Martinique and Cuba scorelines will no doubt help him for now and would make it difficult to get rid of him, but hopefully the powers that be have told him in no uncertain terms that he needs to arrange reasonably challenging friendly games played at a high tempo before significant crowds whenever he has the opportunity to prepare his team for the big occasion games that didn't go so well at the Gold Cup.

The posture should be that he won't be allowed to hide away from those and engage in constant PR spin over the latest 10-0 scoreline against a small Caribbean island nation. That's expected. What we need to see given the players at his disposal is enough progress in the more challenging games to suggest that the CMNT are now a strong candidate for the hex. If not, it's time to move on and try somebody else.

He didn't get the job to gain the experience needed to win the big games x number of years down the road. The rationale for his hiring was that the methods he was using with the CWNT were supposed to provide something significantly better than Octavio Zambrano had been providing straight away.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[SpecialK]

3 hours ago, The Ref said:

If we were a 12 person jury we would be deadlocked on the incompetence of Herdman.

Yes I’m bias I know but I don’t get this idea oh not yet wait to nations league and Herdman needs to grown and learn like he’s a high school student. Where are Canadian soccer fans  standards are??? Basically one of Canada’s best squad to ever been  Assembled and Herdman shit the bed! 

1. No friendlies needed ( that’s what he said)

2. He picks of players (mainly back line)

3. He starting XI vs Mexico, tactics and just saying just stupid shit to  justify his BS

4. The Haiti   Collapse And  Game management. Just  a deer in the head lights. 

5. His just plan arrogance ! 

The Gold Cup was our chance to show the world oh crap Canada can play and is real the deal. But we just came off as a joke. You should watch what ESPN FC said about it. What more do people need here? There are way better manager ( even Canadians)  options out there ! 

If im Tomori, Ferreira and  Gutiérrez I would be laughing at the idea of  joining Canada and saying are you serious ! They can’t even beat Haiti and they only play minnows. What a joke

[SpecialK]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The rationale for his hiring was that the methods he was using with the CWNT were supposed to provide something significantly better than Octavio Zambrano had been providing straight away.

I’m sorry but everyone should call spade and spade here. Honesty CWNT under his leadership never won the big game ! They would talk big and they couldn’t  deliver.  Two bronze medals that’s it! Even that come on not every major team  participated in the Olympics. He’s record in the women’s World Cup is not very good at all. Also just the fact he ran for hills on the even of  preparing for this World Cup that just past, says a lot about his leadership! The Women’s game is getting better and Canada has been  stagnant and Herdman was part of that! 

Edited July 8, 2019 by SpecialK

[Bertuzzi44]

Those saying "we made the quarterfinals"; well that's just a nice way of saying we got out of our group. A group that included Cuba and Martinique. I would say getting out of that group was the bare minimum we should have expected. And then he lost to haiti.

[Binky]

I wonder if a poll questioning, "Do you believe Herdman will get Canada to Qatar?," with a "yes" or "no" reply option, would produce similar results to this poll?

Many people are not capable of firing someone, whereas, it's not as difficult saying what you believe in.

(I tried to do this, but I'm not sure if the poll feature is functioning properly, or if I haven't figured out how to complete it properly? Maybe someone else could start such a poll?)

Edited July 8, 2019 by Binky

[Admin]

1 hour ago, Binky said:

I wonder if a poll questioning, "Do you believe Herdman will get Canada to Qatar?," with a "yes" or "no" reply option, would produce similar results to this poll?

Many people are not capable of firing someone, whereas, it's not as difficult saying what you believe in.

(I tried to do this, but I'm not sure if the poll feature is functioning properly, or if I haven't figured out how to complete it properly? Maybe someone else could start such a poll?)

Second person to not be able to make a poll.

Something must have tweaked in the last point release.

[Kent]

3 hours ago, Binky said:

I wonder if a poll questioning, "Do you believe Herdman will get Canada to Qatar?," with a "yes" or "no" reply option, would produce similar results to this poll?

Many people are not capable of firing someone, whereas, it's not as difficult saying what you believe in.

(I tried to do this, but I'm not sure if the poll feature is functioning properly, or if I haven't figured out how to complete it properly? Maybe someone else could start such a poll?)

If you do make such a poll, you should also probably include something like "No, but nobody else attainable will get us to the Qatar either" because there will be people that would probably so we can't get there regardless of who coaches.

[Kent]

9 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Yes I’m bias I know but I don’t get this idea oh not yet wait to nations league and Herdman needs to grown and learn like he’s a high school student. Where are Canadian soccer fans  standards are??? Basically one of Canada’s best squad to ever been  Assembled and Herdman **** the bed! 

1. No friendlies needed ( that’s what he said)

2. He picks of players (mainly back line)

3. He starting XI vs Mexico, tactics and just saying just stupid **** to  justify his BS

4. The Haiti   Collapse And  Game management. Just  a deer in the head lights. 

5. His just plan arrogance !

1. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think Herdman ever said it was his decision that we aren't playing friendlies. That could have come from the CSA and he is just supporting them while talking to the media. We don't know one way or the other.

2. I think overall there has been less controversy over his player picks than the coaches that came before him. We used to have problems getting people to come to games during international breaks, but we haven't been having that problem under Herdman. A Cordova here or a Tabla there is about all people complain about. Much less than in the past.

3. In terms of the tournament, this game really wasn't important at all. All you can really argue is that it could have been treated as a measuring stick game. I still agree with the strategy to give your best chance in the more important Cuba game than to go after the Mexico game with all your might.

4. Yes, 45 minutes of bad soccer. Here you have a point, but some people don't think 45 minutes is enough to fire a person and create turmoil around the team. Nobody mentions the David goal in that game. That looked like a training ground goal. It could very well have been dreamed up by Herdman, like the Hoilett throw in off the back goal in Nations League qualifying. No credit for that, but plenty of blame for a bad turnover at the back, and a rash challenge in the box.

5. If Jose Mourinho and Roberto Mancini taught me anything, it's to not pay any attention to what managers say to the media. A lot of it is mind games. Whether playing up your chances or playing them down. A lot of the time it sounds idiotic, but it's just mind games to try to get the best out of their team, or to get the worst out of their opponents.

[Corazon]

On 7/2/2019 at 11:01 PM, SpecialK said:

I understand the thinking of waiting, but you just can’t go around talking about playing the best teams in CONCACAF and finally when you do get to play as manager you put on the bench and play a style of play that minnows play when they are playing giants, when they want to  survive respectively. After you lose, you Try to justify your stupidity by saying oh we don’t want to show our hand to Mexico( like Tata has never managed before ) Then Throughout the week you talks about playing Mexico again in the semi’s when he’s got a game against Haiti coming up. Haiti beats you and the country and the world thinks your idiot! I’m sorry he doesn’t Deserve another chance he made the program look horrible,  because of his arrogance.

I am with you 100% on this.  I was one of the most voal on this board about his tactical decisions vs Mexico and thought it was a complete farce to be "holding some of your cards in your hand for the semi final rematch".  As if Mexico had no idea the quality that our premier league player Hoilett brings or one of the best Scottish prem players his year Arfield brings, or one of the brightest European based teenager David brings or even Osorio who played extremely well vs Mexican clubs in CONCACAF Champions League.  I agree with all your points.  To me, he should be held accountable and one slip up this fall should be the end in my opinion.

On 7/3/2019 at 12:51 AM, Bertuzzi44 said:

So he didn't deserve the job in the first place, but deserves another shot?

Anyway, I voted he should be fired, mainly because I do not think he should have been given the job in the first place. Then add in other factors like "we don't need friendlies", his loss to Haiti in the QFS all while looking ahead to the semis, in-game management, and roster decisions, etc, and it is a no-brainer for me.

We fired a better manager who was just turning the program around for this clown and gave him the keys to until 2026? Brutal.

 

There are very few posters on this board that were as outspoken as me in support of OZ.  From the beginning , I always said Herdman was out of his element and this Gold Cup proved I was right.  And apparently a lot more people now agree with me.  What OZ did in a short time with far less talent makes his fireing difficult to accept.  But it is the fact that that he did not agree with the CSA on many issues to contributed to his firing.

I don't for one second believe that Herdman does not want friendlies.  As a Head Coach, all you want to do is coach, have training camps and play as many games as possible.  Part of the reason he was hired was so that he could be a "puppet" and do what the CSA tells him to do.  Do you think that its coincidence that OZ complained about lack of friendlies (among other things) and was fired shortly thereafter and then Herdman was hired and almost immediately told the media that his Canada squad does not need friendlies?

[Binky]

6 hours ago, Kent said:

If you do make such a poll, you should also probably include something like "No, but nobody else attainable will get us to the Qatar either" because there will be people that would probably so we can't get there regardless of who coaches.

Has anyone else attainable made Herdman's guarantee to get Canada to Qatar?

A simple yes or no reply is enough for the question I propose. I comes down to whether or not you believe John Herdman.

In fact, has any other, experienced or inexperienced, coach of a national team promised that he will succeed in securing one of the 31 available Qatar 2022 berths for his country? There might well be, but I have not come across anyone? If you have any links to any other national coach giving such a guarantee, then please share a link to at least one of them with us?

[dyslexic nam]

Apparently KJ and Caldwell talk to Herdman in their latest podcast (post GC). I haven’t had a chance to give it a listen yet but I am curious if they asked him any of the hard questions that have come up in our post mortem. 

[SpecialK]

Love it

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

A reminder to the younger generation of why these guys should be listened to: