Should Herdman be fired ?

[LeoH037]

Because of one lost? Specially when the team had a collapse that not even the best coaches in the world had any way of foreseeing? You do know there's this thing called a "contract" that costs $$$ whenever it ends prematurely right? I knew it was good to stay away from these forums after the GC, and upon reading seeing this thread I knew I had made the right choice... damn it

[gator]

13 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Because of one lost? Specially when the team had a collapse that not even the best coaches in the world had any way of foreseeing? You do know there's this thing called a "contract" that costs $$$ whenever it ends prematurely right? I knew it was good to stay away from these forums after the GC, and upon reading seeing this thread I knew I had made the right choice... damn it

So you obviously don't think the coach had anything to do with it, the right players were on the pitch in correct positions and the tactics were good? The large majority so far in this poll is not calling for his firing after one loss btw and I think most are aware that he will not be fired because of the $$$ you correctly refer to!

[The Real Marc]

It is understandable that the circumstances around his hiring have upped the scrutiny and the stakes, and therefore Herdman will (and should) be judged more harshly than previous coaches in similar situations.

But those circumstances have also contributed to a lack of proportionality in the response to his foibles and his mistakes.

It's not as if he's the only manager to have made interesting personnel decisions, had favourites, played someone out of position, called up an unbalanced team, or blew their tactics in a match. 

[ted]

19 minutes ago, gator said:

So you obviously don't think the coach had anything to do with it, the right players were on the pitch in correct positions and the tactics were good?

Actually yes, for the most part, all of that is true. Haiti did not destroy us. They had some luck and took their chances and beat us by one goal in the end. It's bloody football in CONCACAF. 

[BrennanFan]

9 minutes ago, ted said:

Actually yes, for the most part, all of that is true. Haiti did not destroy us. They had some luck and took their chances and beat us by one goal in the end. It's bloody football in CONCACAF. 

Let's not confuse the situation.

I don't think anyone is blaming Herdman for the first goal, it was a freak error. It is his amateurish response to that goal, and the following goals, that are being heavily criticised. 

His starting lineup was justifiable, though we know now in hindsight that Godinho wasn't ready.  Herdman's inability to manage the way the game turned in the second half is specifically what killed us. His squad selections set us up for this failure.  

This is all down to a lack of experience. At the international level, a coach should be better than this. 

[Bison44]

45 minutes ago, LeoH037 said:

Because of one lost? Specially when the team had a collapse that not even the best coaches in the world had any way of foreseeing? You do know there's this thing called a "contract" that costs $$$ whenever it ends prematurely right? I knew it was good to stay away from these forums after the GC, and upon reading seeing this thread I knew I had made the right choice... damn it

Hmmm, one loss? WHy dont we say 0 for 2, because mexico and this game to get us to the semis (whoever it was Costa rica etc) have been the only tests for the team in the 1.5 years Herdman has been in charge.  Thats a long time to get the team prepared, and it sure looked like we didnt have any real FB that had enough time with the squad to be effective.  And I think everyone on the board thought this was true even as herdman kept trotting out non fb against minnows, where they could have been worked into the squad.  If you throw Godinho or ZBG to the wolves with less than allstar CB's, overall shaky defense and why wouldnt you forsee a defensive collapse??  Plenty of us did, and herdman had plenty of time to think about it, plan for it, because we all know he is MR PREPARATION.  Or at least that is the mantra we keep hearing.  

All that being said, no the CSA cant fire him.  And a flame out at the gold cup isnt that big a deal, we do it all the time.  But if we think that the CSA will hold Herdman accountable, and we'll see things being done differently we are fooling ourselves.  That self serving presser Herdman did just shows exactly the attitude that is going to sink us.  You have the horses....we have attacking talent....can you figure out how to protect the back line, so we dont lose 3-2??  And can we actually play some games to prep the TEAM for the tough tests ahead?

[kacbru]

OK, it might make us all feel better that Herdman (and the CSA) are under closer scrutiny because of the GC results.  We might like to think that people calling for him to be fired puts him under pressure to perform in the Nations League.  But it is important to remember the context.  Reality is there are 100 people on this board doing so.  There is no broader questioning of what has happened. As far as Herdman and the CSA are concerned, there is no problem.

And that is the problem that we should be thinking and talking about.

[Bison44]

6 minutes ago, kacbru said:

OK, it might make us all feel better that Herdman (and the CSA) are under closer scrutiny because of the GC results.  We might like to think that people calling for him to be fired puts him under pressure to perform in the Nations League.  But it is important to remember the context.  Reality is there are 100 people on this board doing so.  There is no broader questioning of what has happened. As far as Herdman and the CSA are concerned, there is no problem.

And that is the problem that we should be thinking and talking about.

That is the worst part for me.  Your average Joe is used to us losing tiny carabean/central american countries so they wont even bat an eye about this.  

[SpecialK]

2 hours ago, kacbru said:

OK, it might make us all feel better that Herdman (and the CSA) are under closer scrutiny because of the GC results.  We might like to think that people calling for him to be fired puts him under pressure to perform in the Nations League.  But it is important to remember the context.  Reality is there are 100 people on this board doing so.  There is no broader questioning of what has happened. As far as Herdman and the CSA are concerned, there is no problem.

And that is the problem that we should be thinking and talking about.

A major issue we have is there is no media to go after them and ask the tough questions. Even the US has tougher media.  Our media kisses the ass of Herdman and the CSA, when Herdman was hired to me anyways it was like every reporter was acting like he’s the saver ?!? SAVER ! We were doing really well under Oz, we were moving up already. Nobody but Rollins it seemed went after the CSA on why there was no search. 

That press  conference after the game, was  pathetic ! If Mexico or the US lost like that , their manager would have been eaten alive. 

 We have no standards in Canada for soccer,  no expectations. Losing is ok. 

We don’t have soccer shows on TV like ESPN FC and former players like  herculez gomez just ripping the CSA apart. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by SpecialK

[Bison44]

I missed it when it happened, but Sharman and Molinaro got laid off at Sportsnet??   OHH BOYY!!!  We are really going backwards.  

[Binky]

Well, now that every CSA employee has voted, let's give good old John a raise and a contract extension. How Canadian of us!!! 

[Gian-Luca]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I missed it when it happened, but Sharman and Molinaro got laid off at Sportsnet??   OHH BOYY!!!  We are really going backwards.  

As did soccer hater Bob McCown. Perhaps we're going forward?

[The Ref]

The Preacher's hat is empty.

[maccaliam]

6 hours ago, ted said:

Actually yes, for the most part, all of that is true. Haiti did not destroy us. They had some luck and took their chances and beat us by one goal in the end. It's bloody football in CONCACAF. 

I don’t think JH should be fired, but do you really not see how Herdman dropped the ball by making poor squad selections and then did not/was unable to adjust tactically in game? 

I feel Herdman imploded as much as the players. He may be able to prepare for the start of a game, but he was unable to change the game positively during the final 45 minutes vs Haiti. That reflects very poorly on his in game managerial skills. 

[SpecialK]

Everyone knows I think he should be fired and never should have been hired in the first place. But three major reason just keep coming up for me that are just unforgivable.

1. He came out and said friendlies are  not necessary, when clearly they are ! Godinho, ZBG( has had more mins lately),Morgan and Larin haven’t played a lot. Also with friendlies who have chance to see more players and try new tactics like what they did vs Mexico which was very ugly! Friendlies vs good  opponents are needed!

2. His roster selection, he knew his back line was questionable and thought it was good to play players out of  position. 

3. His  Brain fart with Mexico and versus Haiti second half. Mental  collapse, with his  arrogance and lack of  experience. It’s just a horrible mess! 

 I’m sorry I don’t have confidence in Herdman specially when there’s options out there that are solid. 

 I have no problem with herdman switching over to the men’s side but don’t give him the senior job right away Jesus make him earn it. They should have gave him a U17 team or U20 team or both and see. 

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by SpecialK

[Corazon]

In my opinion should never have been hired and yes he failed at his first test but you don't want to further set the precedence of firing at every obstacle.  He deserves the Nations League at least.

[SpecialK]

3 minutes ago, Corazon said:

In my opinion should never have been hired and yes he failed at his first test but you don't want to further set the precedence of firing at every obstacle.  He deserves the Nations League at least.

I understand the thinking of waiting, but you just can’t go around talking about playing the best teams in CONCACAF and finally when you do get to play as manager you put on the bench and play a style of play that minnows play when they are playing giants, when they want to  survive respectively. After you lose, you Try to justify your stupidity by saying oh we don’t want to show our hand to Mexico( like Tata has never managed before ) Then Throughout the week you talks about playing Mexico again in the semi’s when he’s got a game against Haiti coming up. Haiti beats you and the country and the world thinks your idiot! I’m sorry he doesn’t Deserve another chance he made the program look horrible,  because of his arrogance.

[Bertuzzi44]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

In my opinion should never have been hired and yes he failed at his first test but you don't want to further set the precedence of firing at every obstacle.  He deserves the Nations League at least.

So he didn't deserve the job in the first place, but deserves another shot?

Anyway, I voted he should be fired, mainly because I do not think he should have been given the job in the first place. Then add in other factors like "we don't need friendlies", his loss to Haiti in the QFS all while looking ahead to the semis, in-game management, and roster decisions, etc, and it is a no-brainer for me.

We fired a better manager who was just turning the program around for this clown and gave him the keys to until 2026? Brutal.

 

[BearcatSA]

15 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I do think Herdman has painted himself into a corner with all of the motivational stuff. He identified the mentality issue as being Canada's weakness, claimed that we had superior talent to most of our competition in the region and thus that we had underacheived and said he was going to fix that, pulled out all of the stops with motivational speakers, mind rooms etc. etc. And what happens - the first time we face real adversity (in squandering a lead) we lose and we squandered it in the first place with mental mistakes. So if we have superior players and now the motivational/mentality aspect is fixed thanks to him (or so he was alleging), what's the reason for the loss?

This is my take, as well, and you've done a good job of explaining it here.  

The problem with the next round of CNL is that we are going against a shambolic program (Cuba, unless they have some sudden renaissance) but then we get to play the preferred underdog role vs the US, even if the Americans have been far from convincing based on this tourney.  And being the team being in that role, it's easier to manufacture a more nuanced narrative if you come up short than if you were coming in as a favourite and underachieve.

 

[Kadenge]

I can only hope that JH  upgrades one or more of his assistant coaches. Someone with lots of experience. I assume JDV was in charge of the defenders and had some say in the starting back 4? As a former pro defender he should have reacted to how Haiti were exploiting our FBs. Not shifting blame away from JH but since it is highly unlikely that he gets the axe, he needs to bring on a seasoned assistant (other than Biello).

 

 

 

 

[SpecialK]

11 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I can only hope that JH  upgrades one or more of his assistant coaches. Someone with lots of experience. I assume JDV was in charge of the defenders and had some say in the starting back 4? As a former pro defender he should have reacted to how Haiti were exploiting our FBs. Not shifting blame away from JH but since it is highly unlikely that he gets the axe, he needs to bring on a seasoned assistant (other than Biello).

 

 

 

 

JDV should be focused on his job not playing  wannabe coach

[JamboAl]

34 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

JDV should be focused on his job not playing  wannabe coach

And how do you know that?

[SpecialK]

16 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

And how do you know that?

Why was he on bench ?? 

He  supposed to be director of development. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by SpecialK

[king1010]

14 hours ago, maccaliam said:

I don’t think JH should be fired, but do you really not see how Herdman dropped the ball by making poor squad selections and then did not/was unable to adjust tactically in game? 

I feel Herdman imploded as much as the players. He may be able to prepare for the start of a game, but he was unable to change the game positively during the final 45 minutes vs Haiti. That reflects very poorly on his in game managerial skills. 

A point could be made that he wasn't that great in pre game preparation either, especially withe the fullback selections both pre game and pre tournament. 

Second half game management was definitely terrible. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by king1010

[Gian-Luca]

8 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

This is my take, as well, and you've done a good job of explaining it here.  

The problem with the next round of CNL is that we are going against a shambolic program (Cuba, unless they have some sudden renaissance) but then we get to play the preferred underdog role vs the US, even if the Americans have been far from convincing based on this tourney.  And being the team being in that role, it's easier to manufacture a more nuanced narrative if you come up short than if you were coming in as a favourite and underachieve.

True - although I think the home & away aspect plays in here because we will probably be considered underdogs against the US in the US but I am not so sure that we would be considered such at home.

We should expect to beat Cuba at home without great difficulty but even the away match against ought not to be the cakewalk the Gold Cup match given that the weather  & playing surface/conditions will likely play into Cuba's hands.