Gold Cup 2019

[king1010]

35 minutes ago, Blackjack15 said:

No way Cavallini doesn't start, he's our best forward - Liga MX is a top 20 league in the world and he's scoring is lethal. In terms of trajectory/projection without a doubt David will have a longer career with the NT and has had a better start (4G in 4 Games) at age 19 compared to (5G in 11 Games) for the 26 year old.

For me Jonathan would be the first guy off the bench, but Hoilett and Davies are our best wingers; Herdman hinted that there will be rotation in the 3 Gold cup games 

No way David doesnt start. 

He can play centrally. He starts in your formation over Osorio. Also starting are Hoilett and Davies on the wing Cavallini as striker. As per your formation. The switch is for Osorio. 

Edited June 1, 2019 by king1010

[nolbertos]

6 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Man, if we wanted tests to see how good the squad is we should have already done it with a friendly or two.  With the guys out of the mexico squad i was hoping we would go in a stick it to them.  We have so many guys playing on big stages, the intimidation factor should be getting weaker.  We should be able to play the A team vs mexico.  If this squad (even rotating starters) cant beat martinque and cuba, we are in big trouble.  

Yeah what I heard from Herdman is he’s scared of Mexico and making excuses that we lose against them is because of “rotation”.  If we want to win, and be 1st in the group got to get the best results in the round robin and put in the best players.  And seriously mentioning he’s rather face Mexico in the semi’s, hoe about taking it one game at a time, already thinking he can easily beat Martinique, Cuba and potentially Costa Rica in quarters.  If we put a Canada B team and get pasted 7-0 against Mexico in the 2nd game, I would want Herdman fired, because  he didn’t want to field the best.

[red card]

8 hours ago, BCM said:

Wouldn't playing in June actually mean he would return fitter and in better game shape? Playing at the high level would also presumably up his game. Two sides to this coin.

 

No, all players who play in these type of tournaments get time off and join pre-season late. You can't be playing 12 straight months and the intensity of these tournaments are mentally and physically draining. You need a vacation.

So, he gets a head start on pre-season but will start fading by mid-season or gets injured.

[Addona]

I agree with most of what everyone else has said.  The only reason that I'd like Tabla to be on the team is that he brings something different from the bench.  If we're down a goal with 15-20 minutes left, who are we bringing on?  I see Larin and Millar being 2 options, but there isn't much other pure attacking ability coming off the bench ... Tabla could have been useful in that role.

Edit: I guess Oso might be coming off the bench ... still, I think my point stands.

 

Edited June 2, 2019 by Addona

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

David can play centrally so he’ll likely start over Osorio. Also rather we start a A lineup against Martinique because they’re probably more likely to upset us then Cuba so we shouldn’t take chances by starting a B lineup.

Just because he can doesn't mean he will. We haven't seen him play centrally for Canada yet, despite looking good there for Gent.

I think he would be great down the middle with Canada, but I am not holding my breath on it.

Edited June 2, 2019 by Obinna

[nfitz]

On 6/1/2019 at 7:17 PM, nolbertos said:

And seriously mentioning he’s rather face Mexico in the semi’s, hoe about taking it one game at a time, already thinking he can easily beat Martinique, Cuba and potentially Costa Rica in quarters.

If Canada finishes 1 and Mexico finishes 2, and we both make it to the semifinals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If Canada finishes 2 and Mexico finishes 1, and we both make it to the semifinals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If he wants to rotate the squad who'll be playing again after only 4 days - and at altitude (which won't phase Mexico as much) so that some players are fully rested for Cuba ... then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Otherwise, he's not really playing our best squad for the Cuba match.

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by nfitz

[king1010]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

If Canada finishes 1 and Mexico finishes 2, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If Canada finishes 2 and Mexico finishes 1, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If he wants to rotate the squad who'll be playing again after only 4 days - and at altitude (which won't phase Mexico as much) so that some players are fully rested for Cuba ... then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Otherwise, he's not really playing our best squad for the Cuba match.

 

Do we not run into mexico in the semis? Everyone was calling the draw bush league because two teams from the same group stay on the same side of the draw. Tourni is set up for a mexico usa final. 

[ktf]

1 hour ago, nfitz said:

If Canada finishes 1 and Mexico finishes 2, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If Canada finishes 2 and Mexico finishes 1, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If he wants to rotate the squad who'll be playing again after only 4 days - and at altitude (which won't phase Mexico as much) so that some players are fully rested for Cuba ... then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Otherwise, he's not really playing our best squad for the Cuba match.

 

The only problem with that scenario is that Canada and Mexico, if they finish 1-2 and win in the QF, they play in the SF. The tournament has the scam playoff format that tries to help Mexico and the USA meet in the final regardless of whether they slip up earlier.

[Admin]

2 hours ago, nfitz said:

If Canada finishes 1 and Mexico finishes 2, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If Canada finishes 2 and Mexico finishes 1, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If he wants to rotate the squad who'll be playing again after only 4 days - and at altitude (which won't phase Mexico as much) so that some players are fully rested for Cuba ... then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Otherwise, he's not really playing our best squad for the Cuba match.

 

I don't think this is how it works. 

This scenario isn't possible as far as I can tell

[baulderdash77]

The tournament groupings were BS and designed to keep Mexico and the US from not crossing sides of the brackets.  They really want a huge gate and ratings finals to maximize revenue at the expense of tournament fairness.  

For us to get to the finals we have to ba top 2 in our group and beat Mexico in the semi finals.  

 

[apbsmith]

On 6/1/2019 at 9:05 AM, Kadenge said:

During last night's TFC /VW game Herdman hinted that he would be focusing on the Martinique game (and presumably Cuba) while rotating for the Mexico game....rather go for it against Mexico in the semi-finals vs pool game...not an exact quote from him but great to hear the confidence about reaching the last 4... He also stated that several players can play multiple positions which gives the team a lot of flexibility. 

This makes alot of sense, as discussed by many on here. 

6 points vs Martinique & Cuba and BOOM we advance (in theory). 

Mexico game has so many variables... The older you are, the harder to get that red blood cell/ rejuvenation/ recovery going from altitude games. Then you add the travel + tight game schedule, kind of rediculous. Surprised Mexicans haven't complained more.

I'd rather have guys like Arfield, Hutch, Hoilett rested vs Mexico and fresher for Cuba and QF. If tournament goes as planned we likely play Mexico again anyways. 

Schedule is lame but at same time the squad rotation forces Herdman to give an opportunity to so many players, that excites me. As much as friendlies are important, the intensity in a major competition is always higher. I'm looking forward to see how some of our depth guys perform when given the opportunity to play.

 

[apbsmith]

14 hours ago, nolbertos said:

Yeah what I heard from Herdman is he’s scared of Mexico and making excuses that we lose against them is because of “rotation”.  If we want to win, and be 1st in the group got to get the best results in the round robin and put in the best players.  And seriously mentioning he’s rather face Mexico in the semi’s, hoe about taking it one game at a time, already thinking he can easily beat Martinique, Cuba and potentially Costa Rica in quarters.  If we put a Canada B team and get pasted 7-0 against Mexico in the 2nd game, I would want Herdman fired, because  he didn’t want to field the best.

3 games , 8 days, altitude , 3000kms. 

Getting out of group stage , IS & should be #1 priority.  6 points vs Martinique & Cuba.

In the big scheme of things, getting a tie or win in the group stage vs a Mexico team that is going on strike and missing tons of it's stars looks cool but that's about it. 

Beat Mexico in the Semi's, that's what matters.

It's literally impossible to play the best 11 all 3 games... also no faith in the younger guys? I actually think regardless who Herdman plays vs Mexico, the younger guys might seize the moment and surprise quite a few... even get us a result in the group stage.

Edited June 2, 2019 by apbsmith

[apbsmith]

No way we play a "B team" vs Martinique. 

Simply can't risk not getting a Win in the first game. 

Glad Herdman is the manager and sees it this way.

[apbsmith]

10 hours ago, nfitz said:

If Canada finishes 1 and Mexico finishes 2, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If Canada finishes 2 and Mexico finishes 1, and we both make it to the finals, it's Canada vs Mexico.

If he wants to rotate the squad who'll be playing again after only 4 days - and at altitude (which won't phase Mexico as much) so that some players are fully rested for Cuba ... then that seems perfectly reasonable to me. Otherwise, he's not really playing our best squad for the Cuba match.

 

The group cross over doesn't happen in the Gold Cup. We would play Mexico in the Semi's if we make it that far.  Groups A & B stay on same side of bracket.... Ya makes no sense because we travel 3000kms as it is..... CONCACAF want$ a USA vs Mexico final. 

Edited June 2, 2019 by apbsmith

[Kadenge]

I sure hope Larin brings it at the GC because Tesho is red hot right now. Still think he should have made the cut.

[king1010]

Yup. Tesho was really deserving. 

[baulderdash77]

For the first game we may put out the strongest team we’ve ever put out to cleanly beat Martinique.  

The game against Mexico 4 days later we may have to put out our B team to rest.

Then 4 days later again we will have our A team ready to smash Cuba and get out of the group stage.

We keep talking about Mexico in the semi’s but Costa Rica in the Quarters is a really daunting task.

[SkuseisLoose]

14 hours ago, Obinna said:

Just because he can doesn't mean he will. We haven't seen him play centrally for Canada yet, despite looking good there for Gent.

I think he would be great down the middle with Canada, but I am not holding my breath on it.

I am, because no offence to Osorio but David is considerably better than him and if we’re looking to win the games he’s going to be out there. Besides he’s not particularly needed on the wings as Millar is a good impact sub out there.

[apbsmith]

8 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

We keep talking about Mexico in the semi’s but Costa Rica in the Quarters is a really daunting task.

Valid point. I don't think we are over looking Costa Rica, it has more to do with we won't play a best 11 vs Mexico until the Semi's IF we make it that far.

At the same time I don't think Mexico plays their best 11 in group stage either vs us, all teams will have tons of squad rotation in group stage.

Edited June 2, 2019 by apbsmith

[SkuseisLoose]

I find it funny how we all wanted to test our squad against a strong nation like the US or Mexico but now everyone wants to play a B squad against them.

[Kadenge]

18 minutes ago, SkuseisLoose said:

I find it funny how we all wanted to test our squad against a strong nation like the US or Mexico but now everyone wants to play a B squad against them.

Strategic management. Live to fight another day and that day will come in the knockouts. No point stacking your team vs Mexico and risking Martinique or Cuba. Yes we should be able to defeat those teams with our B squad but history has not always been kind to us...Belize?? The test should have been a friendly and I am ok with T&T for now.

[Guest]

Agree that the way the knockout stage is setup is incompetent, but lets worry about getting to the semis before complaining about who are potential opponent would be.

I’d be extremely satisfied to make the semis.

[dyslexic nam]

#LoadManagement

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

I am, because no offence to Osorio but David is considerably better than him and if we’re looking to win the games he’s going to be out there. Besides he’s not particularly needed on the wings as Millar is a good impact sub out there.

Well, just don't be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

Personally, I would try him there, but I don't think John will.

If you want to keep holding your breath, here is something to cling to: 

We've only had one camp since David began playing centrally for Gent. Alphonso didn't participate. Had he played against French Guiana, perhaps he plays out wide and David moves into the center. Now with both available and healthy, perhaps we see that against T&T.

[Obinna]

Is there really much of a drop off with our "B" squad? Talent wise the squad is very homogeneous.

The real drop off between players is in experience, not talent:

Hutchinson-Kaye or Kaye-Hutchinson, you don't gain or lose much talent either way.

Hoilett-David or David-Hoilett, I don't think it matters.

In other instances, both players have comparable experience AND talent:

Arfield-Johnson, Johnson-Arfield

Osorio-Teibert, Teibert-Osorio

Larin-Cavallini, Cavallini-Larin

Davies-Millar, Millar-Davies

Not saying these pairs are exactly equal, but there really isn't much of a drop off. Really, there isn't. If we want to play the supposed "B" options against Mexico, I am still confident. It just means we have stronger weapons off the bench.