CPL General

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Found this interview with Kyle Becker on the CanPL website an interesting read:

https://canpl.ca/article/well-prove-everyone-wrong-forge-fcs-bekker-leads-charge-for-canadians-returning-home

...“No disrespect to MLS,” Bekker continued, “because they’re growing and they’re doing something amazing, but with them getting a bigger budget and more recognition worldwide, they then have the ability to go out and get a big No. 10 that’s going to come in and be a game-changer not only for the team, but for the league.

“Which is amazing, but we haven’t realized as North Americans … if you have $1 million to spend on a No. 10, why is there an incentive for a team in MLS to grow a No. 10?”...

Think he is correct in his analysis with most of what he says, but it's strange to see a league that at one point was quite adamant that it didn't want to be anybody's development league having one of its players explain so eloquently on its official website why there is a need for one to develop the top domestic talent that MLS isn't able/willing to give playing time to. Hopefully the owners are all on board with this bit:

... “We have this talent in our backyard,” Bekker added. “We just have to take the time to actually care for it and not freak out and go away from everything we should be, which is a Canadian-dominant league.”...

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Copes]

2 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Canadian MLS teams can't qualify through MLS play - only American teams are eligible for those.

Yeah, but that's something the MLS teams should take up with the USSF. It's also something that Canada Soccer should advocate for on their behalf. I don't think the fact that Canadian teams playing in American league don't have rules they're happy with means that Canadian teams in a Canadian league should bend-over backwards to help them out. 

One for Canadian Championship, which really is the MLS team's spot to lose. One for CPL. That's what I hope to see in 2020.

[Initial B]

Since the Caribbean places in Concacaf League are based on a tournament, I could see them taking one of the spots from here (since it doesn't belong to any one national federation) and giving it to the CPL season champion for now. There is no way the CPL should be getting a CCL spot until they prove themselves at the lower level. And there's no way an MLS club would want to subject themselves to a lower-level grind against second-tier opponents, so CL spots would be perfect for CPL clubs to get a taste of continental competition.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Keegan said:

Look, even if an MLS team gets a shot at the CONCACAF league spot the point is we deserve another spot.  Countries like Panama have 4 spots across the competitions and we have 1?  Let's worry about getting the spot first and foremost .. CPL, USL and MLS together and then worry about who gets it later.

Panama only has 4 because Guatamala was banned.  They're back down to 3 spots next year.  Same with Costa Rica.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Watchmen

[Watchmen]

55 minutes ago, Initial B said:

Since the Caribbean places in Concacaf League are based on a tournament, I could see them taking one of the spots from here (since it doesn't belong to any one national federation) and giving it to the CPL season champion for now. There is no way the CPL should be getting a CCL spot until they prove themselves at the lower level. And there's no way an MLS club would want to subject themselves to a lower-level grind against second-tier opponents, so CL spots would be perfect for CPL clubs to get a taste of continental competition.

So you think Vic is going to tell the 31 Caribbean countries they can have 2 tournament spots instead of 3?  Good luck with that.

[Soccerpro]

What do people think attendance is going to look like in year one? I think some clubs like Forge will average more than 5,000 a game, while others, like Edmonton will be in the 3k range...

[CDNFootballer]

16 minutes ago, Soccerpro said:

What do people think attendance is going to look like in year one? I think some clubs like Forge will average more than 5,000 a game, while others, like Edmonton will be in the 3k range...

I'd guess a league average of 4000-5000k, which would be a good start for year one.

Forge and Valour likely the highest and hopefully they avg at least 7k as they're in larger venues and need the higher avg for a good gameday atmosphere and optics.

[Copes]

14 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

I'd guess a league average of 4000-5000k, which would be a good start for year one.

Forge and Valour likely the highest and hopefully they avg at least 7k as they're in larger venues and need the higher avg for a good gameday atmosphere and optics.

I'm suspecting about this as well. I think its fair. Based on season ticket sales and things like that I don't think it will be hard to get this. I also think there is a fair bit of buzz... at least it seems that way in my circles.

[gator]

19 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Found this interview with Kyle Becker on the CanPL website an interesting read:

https://canpl.ca/article/well-prove-everyone-wrong-forge-fcs-bekker-leads-charge-for-canadians-returning-home

...“No disrespect to MLS,” Bekker continued, “because they’re growing and they’re doing something amazing, but with them getting a bigger budget and more recognition worldwide, they then have the ability to go out and get a big No. 10 that’s going to come in and be a game-changer not only for the team, but for the league.

“Which is amazing, but we haven’t realized as North Americans … if you have $1 million to spend on a No. 10, why is there an incentive for a team in MLS to grow a No. 10?”...

Think he is correct in his analysis with most of what he says, but it's strange to see a league that at one point was quite adamant that it didn't want to be anybody's development league having one of its players explain so eloquently on its official website why there is a need for one to develop the top domestic talent that MLS isn't able/willing to give playing time to. Hopefully the owners are all on board with this bit:

... “We have this talent in our backyard,” Bekker added. “We just have to take the time to actually care for it and not freak out and go away from everything we should be, which is a Canadian-dominant league.”...

 

When CPL stated they were not going to be anyone's development league they were referring to MLS clubs  specifically TFC wanting to put a reserve team in the league, there is a difference here, CPL will be developing their own talent, players who are signed and property of the club which I very much look forward to! 

[Alex D]

Every league is a development league outside of the biggest in Europe. Even MLS though they are reluctant to accept that role. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

I think MLS made a strategic error trying to be "major league" with no significant TV deal. The league is not as well scouted as it should be because it's convoluted as hell and the attitude that they deserve big fees. The CPL could become profitable on $250-$500k sales if they can establish some good relationships in Europe.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

18 minutes ago, gator said:

When CPL stated they were not going to be anyone's development league they were referring to MLS clubs  specifically TFC wanting to put a reserve team in the league, there is a difference here, CPL will be developing their own talent, players who are signed and property of the club which I very much look forward to! 

If the development of Canadian players is involved either way and everybody is acknowledging that MLS is on a different higher scale of operations as was definitely the case in that article, why have this huge emotional hang up about it? If the optics of reserve teams is the issue, then affiliations can always be negotiated similar to what is happening with the Fury. Did the Fury suffer in any way by providing a platform to develop Maxime Crepeau?

As things stand a large portion of the players CanPL are signing have already been through MLS academies, but didn't make the grade. It remains to be seen whether CanPL teams will be putting much of an effort into real pro club academies that are run on merit rather than pay-for-play given the expense involved in doing it properly, when that pipeline of talent is always likely to be there. The purchase of L1O suggests they will probably be leaving it to youth clubs and pay-for-play academies like Sigma.

[Ansem]

56 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If the development of Canadian players is involved either way and everybody is acknowledging that MLS is on a different higher scale of operations as was definitely the case in that article, why have this huge emotional hang up about it? If the optics of reserve teams is the issue, then affiliations can always be negotiated similar to what is happening with the Fury. Did the Fury suffer in any way by providing a platform to develop Maxime Crepeau?

This is the BS  right there that people are sick and tired of reading.

With that logic, why not be affiliate with Liga MX? Brazil league? Championship? La Liga? They are way higher than MLS.

Why this obsession at us being MLS (specifically), underlings? 

Why this profound distaste, disbelief, lack or confidence that we can be our own thing within our own mean?

Why treat MLS differently than any other leagues??? What makes them so special above any other leagues? I must have missed the utter dominance in CCL... what is it?

At least try to answer the question 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ansem

[matty]

7 minutes ago, Ansem said:

This is the BS  right there that people are sick and tired of reading.

With that logic, why not be affiliate with Liga MX? Brazil league? Championship? La Liga? They are way higher than MLS.

Why this obsession at us being MLS (specifically), underlings? 

Why this profound distaste, disbelief, lack or confidence that we can be our own thing within our own mean?

Why treat MLS differently than any other leagues??? What makes them so special above any other leagues? I must have missed the utter dominance in CCL... what is it?

God, sick and tired of this

the only legit reason mls is different is because 3 teams have different rights (regarding transfers, ect.) from the rest of the world. other than that there is no reason at all to give mls or anything special preference or avoidance.

[Alex D]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If the development of Canadian players is involved either way and everybody is acknowledging that MLS is on a different higher scale of operations as was definitely the case in that article, why have this huge emotional hang up about it? If the optics of reserve teams is the issue, then affiliations can always be negotiated similar to what is happening with the Fury. Did the Fury suffer in any way by providing a platform to develop Maxime Crepeau?

or we can act like a real football league and CPL clubs can loan in MLS players to fill needed holes in their lineups without an assinine minor league affiliation. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

47 minutes ago, Ansem said:

....With that logic, why not be affiliate with Liga MX? Brazil league? Championship? La Liga? They are way higher than MLS...

 ...because TFC, the Whitecaps and the Impact are members of the CSA and have academy systems filled with a large portion of Canada's youth internationals, while Liga MX, Brazil league, Championship and La Liga clubs are not and do not. When is this ongoing pretence that MLS is something separate from Canadian soccer rather than an integral part of it finally going to end? If CanPL sees developing Canadian players as part of its mandate, as it should, then finding a way to involve some of the Canadian youth internationals that are in the three Canadian MLS academy systems through a system of player loans should be a no brainer.

[Alex D]

2 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I think MLS made a strategic error trying to be "major league" with no significant TV deal. The league is not as well scouted as it should be because it's convoluted as hell and the attitude that they deserve big fees. The CPL could become profitable on $250-$500k sales if they can establish some good relationships in Europe.

1000 times this! Not every transfer has to be multi millions. If you have a young player with a bit of promise and a Swedish club wants to buy him for 300k, that probably covers all the wages you paid him and his training. If there is a sell on clause there may be a small bonus down the road. 

Edited January 13, 2019 by Alex D

[Ansem]

47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

because TFC, the Whitecaps and the Impact are members of the CSA and have academy systems filled with a large portion of Canada's youth internationals, while Liga MX, Brazil league, Championship and La Liga clubs are not and do not.

And?

That hardly makes your point here. Wouldn't we be collectively better served of there was no unnecessary obstacles to the grow of CPL? 

What you're proposing would cement CPL as a D2 which would severely limit it's growth and potential increase in level of play and money being invested in the league.

It's better if CPL can grow as big as they can and be allow to close that gap with MLS overtime allowing it to become a much stronger league. That's more spots at a higher level than just cementing that only 3 teams (hardly playing Canadians) may be recognize as Canada's top team

47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

When is this ongoing pretence that MLS is something separate from Canadian soccer rather than an integral part of it finally going to end?

When that league becomes a TRUE cross-border league like NHL, NBA, MLB who aren't insulting our collective intelligence with US labour law BS as justification as not treating all Canadians equally as American across the board. Right now MLS is trying to pass itself as the other leagues which it isn't.

Until then, no matter how frustrated you are, MLS is an American league who has 3 "Canadian glorified guests" with special permission from all governing bodies to compete in it.

47 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If CanPL sees developing Canadian players as part of its mandate, as it should, then finding a way to involve some of the Canadian youth internationals that are in the three Canadian MLS academy systems through a system of player loans should be a no brainer.

Unless you have inside sources, stop bothering us with this bullshit. There's absolutely nothing suggesting that CPL won't take loans from MLS teams. They dont want 7 Fury clubs, nor should it need to go this far.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Ansem

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, Alex D said:

or we can act like a real football league and CPL clubs can loan in MLS players to fill needed holes in their lineups without an assinine minor league affiliation. 

And frankly, if I'm managing a club and want to keep player X, Y or Z happy, under contract and developing I'm inclined to ship him off to where it seems most likely that he'll do just that.  Affiliation or no. 

Players and their agents aren't stupid either.  A club that will leave players rotting in purgatory instead of getting them loaned out are quickly going to have a problem.  Players are always told to be patient and sometimes that pays off.  Sometimes being bold does to. 

[Kent]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

When that league becomes a TRUE cross-border league like NHL, NBA, MLB who aren't insulting our collective intelligence with US labour law BS as justification as not treating all Canadians equally as American across the board. Right now MLS is trying to pass itself as the other leagues which it isn't.

Just so we are clear, MLS has more rules to help Canadian players than those other leagues do. NHL, NBA, and MLB don’t mandate any Canadian players, MLS does require some at least for the Canadian teams.

[baulderdash77]

It doesn’t have to be a vs MLS situation.  In fact it’s not.  Why does CPL always have to be compared to MLS?

Right now if you take a look at the majority of our player pool raised in Canada you will see that they mostly came through MLS or Sigma.  That’s where most of our depth developed.

The problem was always that there were so many players coming up and only about 7 of 8 viable spots on the 3 MLS teams for Canadian talent.  So the talent moved on.  It’s fine.

Now there’s other places for that talent to go so we have viable depth.  It’s all a good thing guys.  Stop fighting about it.

[garmc]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

Just so we are clear, MLS has more rules to help Canadian players than those other leagues do. NHL, NBA, and MLB don’t mandate any Canadian players, MLS does require some at least for the Canadian teams.

That's not MLS that requires that, it's the CSA.

[zen]

22 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I think MLS made a strategic error trying to be "major league" with no significant TV deal. The league is not as well scouted as it should be because it's convoluted as hell and the attitude that they deserve big fees. The CPL could become profitable on $250-$500k sales if they can establish some good relationships in Europe.

That is because the US is a juggernaut in terms of wealth and soft power, with continued growth locally I can see MLS being on par with those leagues both in terms of quality and financial strength.

MLS is already better than the Scandinavian leagues.

Also, you can't compare the quality of leagues around the world to MLS by looking at just the best teams in those leagues. With parity on the deviation in quality from the best to the worst is not as high as in other leagues, and on average the teams in MLS are better than a large portion of teams in some first division leagues around the world, France and Italy included.

"Attitude that the deserve big fees"

It all depends what the player is worth on the free market. If the league and the team believe they can sell a player for more, why shouldn't they hold out. There is greater value in said player remaining in the league and growing, and being sold solely to recuperate costs.

Edited January 14, 2019 by zen

[zen]

20 hours ago, Alex D said:

1000 times this! Not every transfer has to be multi millions. If you have a young player with a bit of promise and a Swedish club wants to buy him for 300k, that probably covers all the wages you paid him and his training. If there is a sell on clause there may be a small bonus down the road. 

I'm not sure if you are insinuating that Swedish clubs are better than the clubs in MLS, but the quality in MLS has already surpassed the Scandinavian leagues.

Please read my comment above where I state:

"Attitude that the deserve big fees"

It all depends what the player is worth on the free market. If the league and the team believe they can sell a player for more, why shouldn't they hold out. There is greater value in said player remaining in the league and growing, and being sold solely to recuperate costs.

Edited January 14, 2019 by zen

[Alex D]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

MLS is already better than the Scandinavian leagues.

Also, you can't compare the quality of leagues around the world to MLS by looking at just the best teams in those leagues. With parity on the deviation in quality from the best to the worst is not as high as in other leagues, and on average the teams in MLS are better than a large portion of teams in some first division leagues around the world, France and Italy included.

I wasn't talking about MLS at all, just how the CPL can fit into the ecosystem of world football. Also I believe you are out to lunch on your last sentence.