matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Ansem said: Which has nothing to do with quality but politics. Why not be congruent and put the D3 ahead while you're at it since CPL has no history either. They point out that FC Edmonton was a returning team which has a track record in the tournament. Why not FC Edmonton at the same stage then? This has politics plastered all over it. I could poke holes in their rational all day. I was always a fan of random draws anyways but that system is just plain wrong. I'm reading the French twitter and they aren't thrilled on how far ahead TFC has been seeded in comparison to Montreal and Vancoiver with one pointing out that even PSG doesn't get that kind of advantage in coupe de la ligue. TFC won the tourney last year (quality) and FCE took a year off and have had to restart (again that's on an on the field thing as much as you can say politics). This format is shit but it makes some sense (very little but there is sense) if you actually look at it and forget all the drama that's been going on. The only outright choice based on politics is which CPL clubs enter when and that's based on the most basic ideas if entry possible. Also don't compare this to anything in Europe right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Keegan said: ...The answer is obvious and was already answered days ago as to why Ottawa is staying in USL. They aren’t paying salaries as high as CPL - that’s the truth they’re a farm club for MTL and Toronto. That's not at all clear yet given the rhetoric we have been hearing about 70k vs 35k salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Like he said matty, michaeltfc91, Gopherbashi and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) delete Edited January 10, 2019 by Ansem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ansem said: Like he said that's what i said on the last page....... and what probably 99% of people agree with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Keegan said: Well yeah, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense so probably another Fury hot take. In a year, which is what we’re talking about, everyone will know the deal with CPL. Your logic is confusing when you say they won’t be worth half that in a year unless they have the best deal possible for TV and sponsors. So how does Ottawa have a value of $7 million? CPL clubs need the best of the best to be half that value but Ottawa skates by and is wort $7 million. Even possible explanations wouldn’t make sense, for instance if you want to say that it’s because of OSEG’s accounting.. okay, then by that token Hamilton and Winnipeg would/could be worth more. If you want to say it’s because of the USL licence well then presumably someone values it and will purchase it.. so sell it? The answer is obvious and was already answered days ago as to why Ottawa is staying in USL. They aren’t paying salaries as high as CPL - that’s the truth they’re a farm club for MTL and Toronto. buying into a CFL is reported at around $8-10 million (from what I've seen), so I'm basising CPL values off of that. It lacks the big markets, is unlikely to have the same media and sponsor deals. It's also been reported that the club is near being in the black and CPL could set that back Also we do not know CPL salaries yet so please hold off on that. Ottawa is cheap but I've so far seen no evidence CPL isn't as cheap or cheaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) So, to provide a possible defence for this format - One advantage that this format has is that any CPL teams facing the other four will have won at least one round and will hopefully be on the stronger side of things. Less chance of a crap CPL team being embarrassed against MLS or Ottawa. I'm not saying that's why the CSA chose this format, but at least it's a potential benefit to us. Edited January 10, 2019 by Gopherbashi Ivan and matty 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, matty said: buying into a CFL is reported at around $8-10 million (from what I've seen), so I'm basising CPL values off of that. It lacks the big markets, is unlikely to have the same media and sponsor deals. It's also been reported that the club is near being in the black and CPL could set that back Also we do not know CPL salaries yet so please hold off on that. Ottawa is cheap but I've so far seen no evidence CPL isn't as cheap or cheaper Not a business major, but if Ottawa is worth $7M basically due to the USL franchise fee, can they sell it for that much is mandated to move to CPL (thus not losing any value - but actually cashing it in). It seems like the whole valuation is based solely on the fee, and not any sort of profitability model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, dyslexic nam said: Not a business major, but if Ottawa is worth $7M basically due to the USL franchise fee, can they sell it for that much is mandated to move to CPL (thus not losing any value - but actually cashing it in). It seems like the whole valuation is based solely on the fee, and not any sort of profitability model. yea curious as to how they're entering the black. i also assume selling is more complicated that most think here which is making them resistant (exit fee or difficulty finding a US buyer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Ughh, it hurts so much to be a canadian soccer fan. The only thing I can think to put a spin on this is Ottawa is up a rung because the CPL teams havnt kicked a ball yet. But why spilt the CPL teams, putting some with L10 and PQ league?? dyslexic nam and JamboAl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Ughh, it hurts so much to be a canadian soccer fan. I may make this my new sig line... Ansem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 18 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: That's not at all clear yet given the rhetoric we have been hearing about 70k vs 35k salaries. It will be clear when we see the number of loan players - no number crunching or rhetoric needed. We can objectively see what’s going on and use common sense. Guys who have never been good enough to crack our MNT on Ottawa are supposedly making $70k each.. but meanwhile bigger names in CPL are going to be making half that? Geez.. why didn’t they think of signing for Ottawa? Doesn’t make sense.. unless you’re averaging MLS salaries in. 13 minutes ago, matty said: buying into a CFL is reported at around $8-10 million (from what I've seen), so I'm basising CPL values off of that. It lacks the big markets, is unlikely to have the same media and sponsor deals. It's also been reported that the club is near being in the black and CPL could set that back Also we do not know CPL salaries yet so please hold off on that. Ottawa is cheap but I've so far seen no evidence CPL isn't as cheap or cheaper Not sure exactly where you’re going now talking about CFL fees .. I thought we were talking about the supposed loss of value for Fury moving to CPL. Do you think FCE paid an expansion fee? On the relevant topic I can’t see how Ottawa’s sponsorship money wouldn’t be better in CPL.. I haven’t seen anyone give a logical explanation for how sponsorships would be adversely affected. CPL is likely to garner much more national interest than Ottawa playing in USL. Bbeto and Ansem 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Also, can someone explain why Ottawa pays among the best in USL at $70k + housing and no one wants to sign there?! Why are players so discriminatory against Ottawa? And now I see their top scorer has left too! Why didn’t any of the names signing in CPL consider Ottawa at those huge wages? Couldn’t possibly be that it’s bullshit.. nah, everyone is against Ottawa. Bbeto and Ansem 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 This seeding will make the V's Cup spicier than it has ever been and personally really looking forward to the matches more so than any other season. In this case, controversy is good. Ivan, Keegan, BuzzAndSting and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Keegan said: Not sure exactly where you’re going now talking about CFL fees .. I thought we were talking about the supposed loss of value for Fury moving to CPL. Do you think FCE paid an expansion fee? On the relevant topic I can’t see how Ottawa’s sponsorship money wouldn’t be better in CPL.. I haven’t seen anyone give a logical explanation for how sponsorships would be adversely affected. CPL is likely to garner much more national interest than Ottawa playing in USL. I cited CFL for CPL team values likely not being half. Also I do not. Also USL has access to ESPN's streaming services which is big and generates some solid US money and has a number of partners. CPL's currently has nothing other than Macron (iirc). While CPL has potential, it is still just potential and even Canadian deals might not generate the same money that one can make of US related deals. I think you misunderstand why people mention sponsorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Keegan said: Also, can someone explain why Ottawa pays among the best in USL at $70k + housing and no one wants to sign there?! Why are players so discriminatory against Ottawa? And now I see their top scorer has left too! Why didn’t any of the names signing in CPL consider Ottawa at those huge wages? Couldn’t possibly be that it’s bullshit.. nah, everyone is against Ottawa. Cause no one wants to live in Ottawa/Victoria is lovely. But seriously, we've heard people have issues with Ottawa's travel in USL so suspect that turns some off and it's possible Ottawa didn't want those players/those players wanted to be in CPL year one for the honour. Also I don't get why people are going on about Ottawa/USL vs. CPL in terms of standards. Ottawa won for the 2019 CanChamp, let's look to the future. Edited January 10, 2019 by matty Ivan and ted 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) https://york9fc.canpl.ca/article/york9-fc-and-canadian-premier-league-clubs-enter-2019-canadian-championship?fbclid=IwAR0ImlhN9hbsqwj0AyADUwVuKTuTqx_Fab44C7LsFb808oBMitJsfJoSuH8 “The Canadian Premier League and its clubs are thrilled to be part of newly-expanded Canadian Championship,” said CPL Commissioner David Clanachan. “As we continue to grow the game in Canada, we are excited to see this tournament expand to 13 teams through the addition of CPL clubs. “All Canadian Premier League clubs are looking forward to battling teams from other leagues for a coveted spot in the Scotiabank CONCACAF Champions League as our vision is to create a solid foundation that will grow the game and help Canadians be a force on the world stage.” god i'm now worried cpl won't get a concacaf spot on its own for a while Edited January 10, 2019 by matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 They needed the four USSF sanctioned teams on board at launch for that to be likely to happen. The whole idea of the Canadian championship has been to give the three MLS teams an avenue to be the Canadian national champion in the absence of a domestic D1 pro league. Continuing with this tournament as the top domestic competition inherently means that CanPL isn't being viewed the same way as the national pro leagues in other CONCACAF members in status terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Keegan said: And TFC wouldn’t beat Vaughan or any other L1O team 8-0 imo. You're right it'd be at least 9-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: They needed the four USSF sanctioned teams on board at launch for that to be likely to happen. The whole idea of the Canadian championship has been to give the three MLS teams an avenue to be the Canadian national champion in the absence of a domestic D1 pro league. Continuing with this tournament as the top domestic competition inherently means that CanPL isn't being viewed the same way as the national pro leagues in other CONCACAF members in status terms. No - the FIFA articles aren’t dealing with cup competition but nice try. Its year one - CONCACAF needs to decide how many spots they want to allocate CPL. I’d guess sometime in the summer. Granting a spot through the voyageurs cup means nothing in regard to the league. USL teams can only qualify through the USOC just like MLS teams can only qualify through our cup. Don’t confuse yourself. My guess.. 1 V Cup, 1 CPL for the SCCL. For the “Europa league” type competition 1 CPL. Edited January 10, 2019 by Keegan ted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: They needed the four USSF sanctioned teams on board at launch for that to be likely to happen. The whole idea of the Canadian championship has been to give the three MLS teams an avenue to be the Canadian national champion in the absence of a domestic D1 pro league. Continuing with this tournament as the top domestic competition inherently means that CanPL isn't being viewed the same way as the national pro leagues in other CONCACAF members in status terms. Ummm no it doesn't. It's a cup competition and it seems to be treated by all parties as a cup competition. Its weight does not mean CPL is guaranteed to not be taken seriously as a league by CONCACAF once the CPL is established. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Keegan said: No - the FIFA articles aren’t dealing with cup competition but nice try. The Canadian Chàmpionship determines the national champion for Canada in the way national D1 pro leagues do elsewhere. It isn't the equivalent of a national cup from that standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The Canadian Chàmpionship determines the national champion for Canada in the way national D1 pro leagues do elsewhere. It isn't the equivalent of a national cup from that standpoint. It's treated that way because it for the last decade was the only national competition of weight. That likely is not the case anymore unless CPL somehow sucks worse than gravity. The tournament's prestige might remain but it's role likely will change in the Canadian soccer landscape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Keegan said: Its year one - CONCACAF needs to decide how many spots they want to allocate CPL. From all we've ever heard on the subject, it's the national federations that allocate CCL spots, not CONCACAF. If Canada gets another spot (or a spot in the Concacaf League), I fully expect the MLS clubs to raise hell (behind the scenes) to ensure they are not completely shut out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, RS said: From all we've ever heard on the subject, it's the national federations that allocate CCL spots, not CONCACAF. If Canada gets another spot (or a spot in the Concacaf League), I fully expect the MLS clubs to raise hell (behind the scenes) to ensure they are not completely shut out of it. Should be but as we've seen Vic is willing to fuck with shit traditionally meant to be handled by the federations. LOL I share that expectation too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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