Ansem Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 20 minutes ago, Ansem said: What I can never wrap my head around is them cheaping out on player quality (or quantity). Which is what it seems like they are doing. For example, let's say expenses are $6,000,000 including a cap of $1,000,000. Why not have you expenses be $7,000,000 and have a cap of $2,000,000? Your expenses increase 16.7%, but player quality will double..... Such a small increase in total expenses would really increase the quality of the league, it is just mind boggling they aren't thinking this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said: What I can never wrap my head around is them cheaping out on player quality (or quantity). Which is what it seems like they are doing. For example, let's say expenses are $6,000,000 including a cap of $1,000,000. Why not have you expenses be $7,000,000 and have a cap of $2,000,000? Your expenses increase 16.7%, but player quality will double..... Such a small increase in total expenses would really increase the quality of the league, it is just mind boggling they aren't thinking this Despite all the speculation going on, which some Fury people heavily contributed too, the most official clue was from David Clanachan who said that it would be "North of $1M" Until then, we'll have to see what they mean by that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 43 minutes ago, Ansem said: Despite all the speculation going on, which some Fury people heavily contributed too, the most official clue was from David Clanachan who said that it would be "North of $1M" Until then, we'll have to see what they mean by that You are leaving out the part where he said that was for player salaries and soccer operations or something to that effect. Which means the player salaries are very likely to be less than one million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, michaeltfc91 said: What I can never wrap my head around is them cheaping out on player quality (or quantity). Which is what it seems like they are doing. For example, let's say expenses are $6,000,000 including a cap of $1,000,000. Why not have you expenses be $7,000,000 and have a cap of $2,000,000? Your expenses increase 16.7%, but player quality will double..... Such a small increase in total expenses would really increase the quality of the league, it is just mind boggling they aren't thinking this I agree it seems they are ensuring the coaches, staff and admin are settled in terms of salary, then really pinching when it comes to players. Because no team nowadays should have a budget that is less than 50% on the field. The money, playing, the rest, pinching pennies. But we have things reverse, so it seems, and that is worrying. I am hopeful this will sort itself out soon enough, salary cap or not. No team is going to sit there losing and needing to sign and say they can't because all their money is held up in assistant coaches, groundkeeping and physio equipment. Edited January 12, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 50 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said: What I can never wrap my head around is them cheaping out on player quality (or quantity). Which is what it seems like they are doing. For example, let's say expenses are $6,000,000 including a cap of $1,000,000. Why not have you expenses be $7,000,000 and have a cap of $2,000,000? Your expenses increase 16.7%, but player quality will double..... Such a small increase in total expenses would really increase the quality of the league, it is just mind boggling they aren't thinking this What you are saying is analogous to figuring out how much you can afford to buy a house. You figure out what kind of a mortgage you can handle, do all the math, and then decide to buy a house that is 16% more expensive than that. In your scenario you are still drawing a line somewhere. But your logic says you shouldn't draw a line anywhere. Why only have a 2 million dollar player budget when you could spend just 2 million more and double the quality of your team again? But there's more, why only spend 4 million when you could spend 10 million, or 20 million, or wait, why not 100 million? That would make a better team, so let's do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeltfc91 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kent said: What you are saying is analogous to figuring out how much you can afford to buy a house. You figure out what kind of a mortgage you can handle, do all the math, and then decide to buy a house that is 16% more expensive than that. In your scenario you are still drawing a line somewhere. But your logic says you shouldn't draw a line anywhere. Why only have a 2 million dollar player budget when you could spend just 2 million more and double the quality of your team again? But there's more, why only spend 4 million when you could spend 10 million, or 20 million, or wait, why not 100 million? That would make a better team, so let's do it! I know what you mean but I am drawing a line... If they stretch just a little more and agree they can take on an extra million per year in expenses, then put that million towards player salary and the quality of the league will go up significantly. Not to mention you might get that back in revenue due to higher attendance etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenFisk'sBiggestFan Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, michaeltfc91 said: I know what you mean but I am drawing a line... If they stretch just a little more and agree they can take on an extra million per year in expenses, then put that million towards player salary and the quality of the league will go up significantly. Not to mention you might get that back in revenue due to higher attendance etc. 1. Paying the players double doesn’t double the quality. This is my opinion, but if you look at team budgets, it almost always is true. Go look at the spread of budgets in different leagues. 2. Is a place like Halifax going to get more than 1 million in extra revenue for 1 million in extra spending? Especially in the first year? Definitely not. They would need an extra 2000 people at every game to recoup that increase in spending. 3. If the team wants to bring in an extra 2000 people a game they will need to increase capacity, which will again cost money. The league is starting at a manageable cost. They can increase the player budget every year. That ramps up hype, and allows them to grow the league more naturally. Hopefully revenue will follow. The number one reason for business failure is growing to fast. Starting at this point is the best place to be. By your logic, we could just spend an extra 5 million on players and we would have the best league in North America right away. But it just doesn’t work that way. ted, CDNFootballer, Winnipeg Fury and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 13 hours ago, ted said: I think it is, on a time-delay. Once the CanPL is actually up and playing Canada will be given a second spot in the CCL. Giving it to us this year, before the league has even kicked a ball, makes no sense. Within the next two years (given how bureaucracies work) I am 100% confident we will have a second spot to be allocated as the CSA decides and I cannot see them doing anything other than giving it to the CanPL Champions. Again I'll ask: are you expanding the tournament or taking a spot away from another country to give to Canada? Because I'm not sure the CL makes money (and thus expanding it isn't something CONCACAF would want to do) and taking a spot away from another country to give to his home country might not be something Montagliani wants to do politically. I'm 100% in agreement that any additional spots Canada does get should got to the CPL. But you have to tell me where this spot is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ams1984 Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 7 hours ago, Watchmen said: Again I'll ask: are you expanding the tournament or taking a spot away from another country to give to Canada? Because I'm not sure the CL makes money (and thus expanding it isn't something CONCACAF would want to do) and taking a spot away from another country to give to his home country might not be something Montagliani wants to do politically. I'm 100% in agreement that any additional spots Canada does get should got to the CPL. But you have to tell me where this spot is coming from. If they decide to take 1 away from another country, it might make sense. The Central American leagues are really bad and mostly have multiple spots. We definitely should. That being said, I’m realistically expecting 1 CCL spot and 1 Concacaf League spot, and is settle for that FOR NOW. Keegan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) Well if Canada deserves another spot we deserve another spot in the CONCACAF league at least for now. For those saying “are you going to take a spot from other nations?” Well I suppose, that’s how it usually works unless they expand. That’s for concacaf to figure out as long as we are treated relatively to other small leagues (which CPL will be bigger than). I don’t get what you expect to happen? Yes, spots will be taken or shifted around. It’s not a situation of “but we already set the spots! You’re out of luck forever!” That’s nonsense. for those wondering: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_CONCACAF_League Every Central American League gets 2 spots (except Belize).. I’d recommend taking one from Nicaragua at least to start. That would put us level with Belize and Nicaragua so that’s us being VERY conservative. In future years we should have 2 absolutely no question. We want our young players playing down in the Caribbean and Central America so I think the lower tournament is even better - plus our teams can realistically compete. Edited January 12, 2019 by Keegan Ams1984 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I've heard that MLS teams are unhappy with a second Canadian spot being reserved for CPL teams, so they might kick up quite a fuss about this and I wouldn't be surprised if this second spot gets tied to the Voyageurs Cup in some way. That said, I can't see the MLS teams being a fan of playing an additional eight games (on top of the CCL proper) if the second spot only qualifies to the CL. BenFisk'sBiggestFan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 If MLS teams don’t like being excluded from a CPL awarded spot they could always join CPL:) Seriously though, at a bare minimum if they want a second spot to be awarded via the Voyageurs Cup they should at least be made to enter the tournament at an earlier round. But I hope the CSA holds firm and gives the spot to the CPL if/when it comes. Red and White, gator, Bbeto and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) ...which begs the question of whether teams in a lower budget league with significantly smaller rosters are likely to be any more keen on the CONCACAF League. Even the Champions League is more of a potential headache than anything else in logistical terms given it would start before CanPL's preseason. Edited January 12, 2019 by BringBackTheBlizzard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Bobby S. was on TSN radio yesterday and was talking about how it’s a goal of Forge to play continentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 to be honest if i was a canadian mls team i would be pissed if some new league was exploiting my continental success to gain a spot in concacaf play. i'd likely say "hey csa do the right thing and put the runner-up from can champ into concacaf with that second spot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Reading up about the CONCACAF League, it seems to be setup with 2×6 + Belize for Central America and three Caribbean teams for 16 in total as a qualifier for one last CCL place after North America gets allocated 9, Central America gets allocated 5 and the Caribbean gets 1. The politics of getting a second Canadian entrant could be very challenging without a complete revamp of the overall format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 I actually think the opportunity was there to take a spot from Guatemala. Coming back from their suspension, you simply say "sorry, you start with just 2 spots" and then allocate the extra to Canada. But Concacaf didn't, so I'll be interested to see who they do take one from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The main problem is that the CONCACAF league is being used to provide a 6th Central American or 2nd Caribbean place in the Champions League. North America is already getting 9 out of 16 in the main event, so this extra qualifier event was never intended for North American teams. Guatemala really has 1 and 2/16ths entrants rather than 3 when viewed from that perspective, and the North American federation with the strongest case for extra representation is probably Mexico given MLS has effectively been getting 5 entrants while Liga MX gets 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Copes Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, matty said: to be honest if i was a canadian mls team i would be pissed if some new league was exploiting my continental success to gain a spot in concacaf play. i'd likely say "hey csa do the right thing and put the runner-up from can champ into concacaf with that second spot" I think that's the argument they will make too. However, I think its pretty reasonable for CSA to fire back that at least one spot needs to go to the winner of the national division one league, and I think it would be reasonable for them to hold firm on that without much criticism from other parts of the world. It's just a matter of whether or not they will. Look at England. The FA Cup winner (which is essentially what Canadian Championship is for us) doesn't even get a Champion's League berth. They get a Europa birth. The fact that our FA cup gets 1/2 Champion's League berths (in our future hypothetical) is reasonable. Edited January 12, 2019 by Copes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2SKI Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) I can't see it happening soon, but if we're only given one spot I'd prefer to see it earned through league play instead of a knockout tournament where teams enter in different rounds. That would leave Canadian MLS teams to qualify through MLS league play. Isn't that how it's done in similar situations around the world? Edited January 12, 2019 by C2SKI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, C2SKI said: I can't see it happening soon, but if we're only given one spot I'd prefer to see it earned through league play instead of a knockout tournament where teams enter in different rounds. That would leave Canadian MLS teams to qualify through MLS league play. Isn't that how it's done in similar situations around the world? Canadian MLS teams can't qualify through MLS play - only American teams are eligible for those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 The MLS teams and the Ottawa Fury are members of the CSA rather than the USSF, which is what makes things different from the League of Wales scenario where clubs like Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham are members of England's FA. That's why there still needs to be the Canadian Championship to determine which pro level CSA member is the national champion even after the launch of CanPL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C2SKI Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: Canadian MLS teams can't qualify through MLS play - only American teams are eligible for those. I'm well aware, thanks. That would have to change too. 49 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: The MLS teams and the Ottawa Fury are members of the CSA rather than the USSF, which is what makes things different from the League of Wales scenario where clubs like Swansea, Cardiff, Newport and Wrexham are members of England's FA. That's why there still needs to be the Canadian Championship to determine which pro level CSA member is the national champion even after the launch of CanPL. Yes. Getting USSF to sign off would likely be one of the biggest stumbling blocks. As fans of Canadian soccer though, I think it's what we should push for. We should have representatives from our own league. Edited January 12, 2019 by C2SKI CDNFootballer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 Look, even if an MLS team gets a shot at the CONCACAF league spot the point is we deserve another spot. Countries like Panama have 4 spots across the competitions and we have 1? Let's worry about getting the spot first and foremost .. CPL, USL and MLS together and then worry about who gets it later. Gian-Luca and shamrock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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