Marcelo Flores

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, frmr said:

I'm actually tempering my own expectations on whether he will choose Canada. In the video in the Gold Cup thread his dad mentions that Herdman is telling him he can join the senior team now and the Mexico coach is telling him he wants him to come to U20 cycles and slowly work his way up. The translation is poor but I think his dad goes on to say that Canada is attractive to him for that reason and that parents are aware of countries cap tying a player and not playing them until many years later. Which is a fair point, he could actually progress his club career more quickly by choosing Canada and getting playing time in some important games with the senior team. So there is obviously hope that he sees Canada as the best choice, and it sounds like his dad is making sure he is aware of all of the consequences of choosing an allegiance.

What worries and what is making me temper my expectations a bit is that it seems like Flores feels a connection to Mexico which you can see on his Instagram posts, calling the youth team a Mexican family. There was also a Mexican video from a YT channel that seemed to have a pretty good following discussing his inclusion in the Canada 60-man where at the end the presenter said essentially "but don't worry, we have it from a reliable source that he has already chosen Mexico". Which of course should be taken with a grain of salt, but I guess you give it the benefit of the doubt. So it sounds like he probably wants (or at least wanted) to play for Mexico. We know Herdman would be doing absolutely everything he can to convince him that Canada gives him the best opportunity for his career, which even from a purely objective point of view could absolutely be true. So it's a toss up. I would say it's 60/40 in favour of Mexico because he seems to want to play for them and with his skill level he probably feels like he can play for them. It's just whether he chooses playing now and playing a lot more for Canada or if he chooses the slower, less guaranteed path and ultimately playing less international football for what might be his "first choice".

The wild card of this whole saga is that he is on our provisional squad. If we knew exactly what that meant and if all players on that list are willing to play, then that would answer some questions. I just doubt that Arfield has committed to Gold Cup for example, so some of these players could simply be undecided, eg: Flores. Either way, we'll know in a few days. If he's not on the 23-man I think he's likely going to choose Mexico.

As you could guess, I've been thinking about this a lot.

I'd like to think being named to the preliminary roster counts for something, but I am not sure it does.

Wotherspoon for example confirmed he won't be at the Gold Cup due to Europa League qualifiers. It makes you think, why he was even named and what goes into naming players? Adekugbe for example was omitted due to club commitments, so why wasn't Wotherspoon? Is it as simple as some players ruling themselves out earlier than others, or is there something more?

I hope Flores gets called and accepts, but like yourself I am trying to temper my expectations. 

[saintjoes]

23 minutes ago, frmr said:

I'm actually tempering my own expectations on whether he will choose Canada. In the video in the Gold Cup thread his dad mentions that Herdman is telling him he can join the senior team now and the Mexico coach is telling him he wants him to come to U20 cycles and slowly work his way up. The translation is poor but I think his dad goes on to say that Canada is attractive to him for that reason and that parents are aware of countries cap tying a player and not playing them until many years later. Which is a fair point, he could actually progress his club career more quickly by choosing Canada and getting playing time in some important games with the senior team. So there is obviously hope that he sees Canada as the best choice, and it sounds like his dad is making sure he is aware of all of the consequences of choosing an allegiance.

What worries and what is making me temper my expectations a bit is that it seems like Flores feels a connection to Mexico which you can see on his Instagram posts, calling the youth team a Mexican family. There was also a Mexican video from a YT channel that seemed to have a pretty good following discussing his inclusion in the Canada 60-man where at the end the presenter said essentially "but don't worry, we have it from a reliable source that he has already chosen Mexico". Which of course should be taken with a grain of salt, but I guess you give it the benefit of the doubt. So it sounds like he probably wants (or at least wanted) to play for Mexico. We know Herdman would be doing absolutely everything he can to convince him that Canada gives him the best opportunity for his career, which even from a purely objective point of view could absolutely be true. So it's a toss up. I would say it's 60/40 in favour of Mexico because he seems to want to play for them and with his skill level he probably feels like he can play for them. It's just whether he chooses playing now and playing a lot more for Canada or if he chooses the slower, less guaranteed path and ultimately playing less international football for what might be his "first choice".

The wild card of this whole saga is that he is on our provisional squad. If we knew exactly what that meant and if all players on that list are willing to play, then that would answer some questions. I just doubt that Arfield has committed to Gold Cup for example, so some of these players could simply be undecided, eg: Flores. Either way, we'll know in a few days. If he's not on the 23-man I think he's likely going to choose Mexico.

As you could guess, I've been thinking about this a lot.

That video was interesting. For me it actually shows that Flores has strong feelings for Canada as you get the impression the Dad would choose Mexico 100% if it was only up to him. 

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, I don’t have any real belief that he will join up.   Not saying he won’t - I am just not putting any faith into the idea of seeing him (or Jebbison) at the GC.  Part of that is just the Canadian footy fan self defence mechanism to avoid disappointment.  If he signs up, great - and I am all on board.  If he doesn’t, then so be it - I didn’t expect it anyway.  

[saintjoes]

After binge watching Flores' last 5 games here's my thoughts:

- excellent ability to make space with the ball (tricks, wiggles?, turns) and complete a tough pass to a teammate in a dangerous position

- good quick and accurate shot around 18

- .. not much else. This worries me the most. I couldn't help having Bustos WFC2 flashbacks the whole time. 

Lastly: Dias seems to have that flow that Flores doesn't have (another Bustos trademark) and I get the feeling Días can only get better whereas even if Flores perfects his good traits it may not really set him apart. 

i truly hope this does NOT age well..
 

[frmr]

18 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, I don’t have any real belief that he will join up.   Not saying he won’t - I am just not putting any faith into the idea of seeing him (or Jebbison) at the GC.  Part of that is just the Canadian footy fan self defence mechanism to avoid disappointment.  If he signs up, great - and I am all on board.  If he doesn’t, then so be it - I didn’t expect it anyway.  

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jebbison will be at the Gold Cup, and if he is not, he will be cap tied during WCQ. The gap from him to England's first team is just too massive and he potentially wouldn't be in the discussion for another four or five years, if ever. So yeah I think it's a pretty obvious decision with potentially two World Cups looming and the #9 position there for the taking from Cav.

Also, a little extra hopium: in the Jebbison thread I posted that he followed the FA on twitter, but not Canada Soccer. He no longer follows the FA. I think the writing is on the wall for his commitment to Canada.

[LeoH037]

24 minutes ago, saintjoes said:

That video was interesting. For me it actually shows that Flores has strong feelings for Canada as you get the impression the Dad would choose Mexico 100% if it was only up to him. 

from all the interview with his dad, it doesn't feel like he is pushing Marcelo towards Mexico, and is indeed letting him come to the decision on his own. He just seems to be doing what any good father would, giving his son as much information as possible and allowing him to consider all options before making a big life and career decision. I also get the feeling the Arsenal would prefer for him to suit for Canada for some reason (that just 100% biased speculation from my part of course)

[Atlantic]

26 minutes ago, frmr said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Jebbison will be at the Gold Cup, and if he is not, he will be cap tied during WCQ. The gap from him to England's first team is just too massive and he potentially wouldn't be in the discussion for another four or five years, if ever. So yeah I think it's a pretty obvious decision with potentially two World Cups looming and the #9 position there for the taking from Cav.

Also, a little extra hopium: in the Jebbison thread I posted that he followed the FA on twitter, but not Canada Soccer. He no longer follows the FA. I think the writing is on the wall for his commitment to Canada.

I wish this meant something but I’m pretty sure he unfollowed a lot of accounts and went to solely following his footballing friends / family. He still likes stuff from the FA. 
 

Edit: Not to mention his Instagram profile pic is of him playing for England and he only changed it to that recently. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Atlantic

[frmr]

6 minutes ago, Atlantic said:

I wish this meant something but I’m pretty sure he unfollowed a lot of accounts and went to solely following his footballing friends / family. He still likes stuff from the FA. 

Even so, I can't imagine a scenario where he thinks holding out for England is a better option than joining Canada's senior team now. I would be absolutely shocked if that's what he decided.

[trc2014]

4 hours ago, frmr said:

Even so, I can't imagine a scenario where he thinks holding out for England is a better option than joining Canada's senior team now. I would be absolutely shocked if that's what he decided.

Unless he is taking advice from Tomori.

[Floortom]

4 hours ago, frmr said:

Even so, I can't imagine a scenario where he thinks holding out for England is a better option than joining Canada's senior team now. I would be absolutely shocked if that's what he decided.

As has been stated numerous times the choice isn’t “holding out for England” vs “joining Canada’s team”. It’s “continuing to play in the England youth system and make a senior team decision years from now  vs “ join Canada’s senior team now”. And for an 18 year player who is still developing, this is not nearly as clear cut a choice as this forum thinks.

[frmr]

12 minutes ago, Floortom said:

As has been stated numerous times the choice isn’t “holding out for England” vs “joining Canada’s team”. It’s “continuing to play in the England youth system and make a senior team decision years from now  vs “ join Canada’s senior team now”. And for an 18 year player who is still developing, this is not nearly as clear cut a choice as this forum thinks.

You've basically just added some additional words that don't really change the end result. He can choose to play meaningful senior games now or he can choose not to wait. Why would he choose to miss out Gold Cup, a final WCQ round and potentially a World Cup just to choose Canada later? That has no apparent benefit whatsoever. If he's choosing to miss continental tournaments and a final round of World Cup qualifying it's probably because he's holding out to try to play for England, and that isn't realistically going to happen any time soon. The risk/reward is heavily weighted towards Canada. Even most England fans think Canada is the obvious choice.

[Cheeta]

21 minutes ago, Floortom said:

As has been stated numerous times the choice isn’t “holding out for England” vs “joining Canada’s team”. It’s “continuing to play in the England youth system and make a senior team decision years from now  vs “ join Canada’s senior team now”. And for an 18 year player who is still developing, this is not nearly as clear cut a choice as this forum thinks.

Yeah, don't know.  Good cycle coming up for Canada or no what's the rush?  If he's good enough now he isn't going to be good enough later?  Has to be the train of thought.

However, in the dog eat dog world pro footballers find themselves in where so much comes down to being in the right place at the right time sexing up the resume at the right time can be worth its weight in gold.  Canadian international and giant club prospect so-and-so may read so much better in certain circles.  Just one more affirmation of what your scouts tell you about that player.

Just saying.  Still don't think there's any rush one way or the other, for the player or Canada.

 

[Floortom]

20 minutes ago, frmr said:

You've basically just added some additional words that don't really change the end result. He can choose to play meaningful senior games now or he can choose not to wait. Why would he choose to miss out Gold Cup, a final WCQ round and potentially a World Cup just to choose Canada later? That has no apparent benefit whatsoever

Because the truth is outside of this bubble, few people care about the Gold Cup or concacaf final round of WCQ. These aren’t prestigious propositions at all for people playing in European football - especially with a fourth tier nation like Canada. If he’s playing youth football for England and participates in u20 World Cup and  UEFA youth championship that’s at least at the same level of prestige.

If Canada qualifies for Qatar that really changes the equation. But as of now, I’m not sure why he would leave a top tier youth setup and training to be a “Canadian international”. 
 

hey if I turn out to be wrong I’ll love it. I just think this forum has taken a very one sided and unrealistic  view as to the actual choice he’s facing

[Kent]

6 hours ago, frmr said:

Even so, I can't imagine a scenario where he thinks holding out for England is a better option than joining Canada's senior team now. I would be absolutely shocked if that's what he decided.

So as you stated in the Gold Cup 2021 thread he is a 1000% can't miss prospect but he is foolish to think he could ever make it on the English team and play Euros and World Cups with them?

[frmr]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

So as you stated in the Gold Cup 2021 thread he is a 1000% can't miss prospect but he is foolish to think he could ever make it on the English team and play Euros and World Cups with them?

Well I said that about Flores, not Jebbison, but from Canada's point of view they're both "can't miss" prospects so your point stands I suppose. That's the point though, he's "can't miss" for Canada, which is why Herdman is doing everything he can to bring him over. Is he a "can't miss" prospect for England? Highly doubtful. Their pool is so insanely deep that there is absolutely no guarantee he ever features for their senior team. There's not even a guarantee that he features in those prestigious youth tournaments for England. The only guarantee for him is that he can start playing senior football for Canada now with a World Best XI, a rising star striker and a pretty damn good supporting cast.

I know we're all biased towards Canada here but that objectively is pretty enticing from a career standpoint. I stand by my statement that I think Jebbison is going to commit. Flores I'm less confident about.

[Kent]

6 hours ago, frmr said:

Well I said that about Flores, not Jebbison, but from Canada's point of view they're both "can't miss" prospects so your point stands I suppose. That's the point though, he's "can't miss" for Canada, which is why Herdman is doing everything he can to bring him over. Is he a "can't miss" prospect for England? Highly doubtful. Their pool is so insanely deep that there is absolutely no guarantee he ever features for their senior team. There's not even a guarantee that he features in those prestigious youth tournaments for England. The only guarantee for him is that he can start playing senior football for Canada now with a World Best XI, a rising star striker and a pretty damn good supporting cast.

I know we're all biased towards Canada here but that objectively is pretty enticing from a career standpoint. I stand by my statement that I think Jebbison is going to commit. Flores I'm less confident about.

Apologies, I thought you were talking about Flores. It's in the Flores thread and I didn't go back to re-read the whole branch again and nobody was repeating Jebbison's name, that's my mistake. But yeah, I wouldn't call Jebbison a slam dunk either at this point. I would still be excited if either/both make it onto the Gold Cup squad, but I am tempering my expectations given that they have such little pro experience at this point.

[Wilfrid Laurier]

New article on Marcelo Flores from the Arsenal site.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-marcelo-flores?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arsenal-news+%28News+Feed%29

[Kent]

5 hours ago, Wilfrid Laurier said:

New article on Marcelo Flores from the Arsenal site.

https://www.arsenal.com/news/young-gun-marcelo-flores?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arsenal-news+(News+Feed)

Already posted on Tuesday by Corazon. Good read though.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

No idea how credible this is. Basically says he's leaning Mexico

 

 

[CanadaFan123]

Think logically here. Even if he ultimately wants to play for Canada he's going to stay with Mexico for now as they're in the Olympics. 

Akinola would not be committed to us right now either if the USA made the Olympics.

[Dominic94]

Tbh I think it’s just bs that some dude made up. He’s on the outside of both teams right now.

[Floortom]

? Isn’t it common sense and obvious that’s he’s leaning towards mexico ? If he wasn’t he would be with canada

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

Tbh I think it’s just bs that some dude made up. He’s on the outside of both teams right now.

Basically it is an unsourced noncommittal statement. If he's smart he keeps his options open regardless. So I agree with you, he is just working on his career, this next season could be key to getting a crack at some first-team minutes.

[MtlMario]

I just pray to see the day when all (or most) dual nats pick us first and not because the other nation didn't call them.😉

Edited July 2, 2021 by MtlMario

[toontownman]

17 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I just pray to see the day when all (or most) dual nats pick us first and not because the other nation didn't call them.😉

Its coming. At least we are in the conversation now!