MrR Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 In the last cycle, the CMNT had, arguably, its greatest World Cup qualifying campaign ever. However, in reality, there was no difference in finishing 1st, 2nd or 3rd. The reward for 1st through 3rd was the same: a berth for the 2022 World Cup Final. So what, if we finished ahead of Mexico on goal differential. Enter the CSA, who on its website, on March 31, 2022, proclaimed that Canadian men are the Kings of CONCACAF. https://canadasoccer.com/news/kings-of-concacaf/ OneSoccer just loves to lap-up this kinda CSA shite-hype. As do the many who jumped on the bandwagon. So when's the coronation? When do the Kings get crowned? The World Cup Final proved to be a dud. Canada was just there to make up the numbers with a 3 and out performance. The CONCACAF Nations League was also major disappointment! And the Gold Cup was nothing short of a complete and total embarrassment! What shite performances!!! 3 competitions, 9 games, and only 2 wins!!! We couldn't even beat a shite USA team in the Gold Cup quarterfinals. Shame on CSA for fielding the team they did for the continental championship, and the lame excuses for doing so! And already the next snow-job for the next cycle has been heard, with John Herdman proclaiming that Canada will win the 2026 World Cup? Does he really think Canadians are that thick? How's he going to accomplish the Miracle on Grass, when the CSA is broker than its ever been? No friendlies and not as much prep time as other countries. Are we over-rating ourselves? One thing is for certain. Without our A-team players, we clearly don't have the depth to compete successfully at any international level. The CSA has to do whatever it has to do to keep our A-players happy. The Gold Cup that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro2 Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Yes, we're over rated During WCQ we went on a nice run with strong coaching, great goalkeeping and some timely goals. The World Cup, Nations League and Gold Cup exposed that we arent as good as think we are and we dont have enough depth. There is a big drop off after our top 6ish players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I know it won’t matter, but… During WCQ we finished first in CONCACAF. That wasn’t a fluke - it was earned through consistently strong performances in the region. You can say that there wasn’t a difference in the “prize” but who gives a fuck No one was throwing games because 3rd was the same as 1st. Everyone competed as hard as they could and we came out on top. End of story. The “failure” of Nations League was losing in the finals to the regional powerhouse with 10x our population. That isn’t cause for condemnation. In the Gold our B team underperformed at first but grew into the tournament and ultimately lost by PKs against a solid US B team. Not great overall but some redemption in the way we played the last game and overall about what I expected from the tourney. I am happy we capped some new faces to build our pool and that a few guys stepped up and staked a claim for future consideration. No one (or at least most) here bought into the Kings of CONCACAF BS. It was a sound bite in a media machine that is trying to generate maximum interest. Performances since qualifying haven’t generally been as strong and it is fair to ask questions. But none of that changes the overall strongly upward trajectory of this team over the last few years - and our unprecedented strength when compared to any other point in our history. Make no mistake - these are still very good times for Canadian soccer and we are well positioned to remain regionally competitive in a way that just wasn’t the case before. Kadenge, Fullback, Canuckia and 15 others 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 11 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said: Yes, we're over rated During WCQ we went on a nice run with strong coaching, great goalkeeping and some timely goals. The World Cup, Nations League and Gold Cup exposed that we arent as good as think we are and we dont have enough depth. There is a big drop off after our top 6ish players. I think this is based on a false premise. Overrated by who? Herdman isn’t dumb. His job is to fill players with self belief and to set challenging goals. Does he actually think we are winning the WC in 2026? Hardly. Maybe we are overrated by Wheeler and a few folks at OS, but the US pundits aren’t thinking we are number 1 in the region. And Mexico isn’t trembling in fear at the thought of Canada coming to town. The only way we are over rated is if people pretend that the “Kings of CONCACAF” narrative is widely believed. It isn’t. Not by other regional powers and probably not by anyone in Canada who knows anything whatsoever about Canadian soccer. TOcanadafan, Canuckia, Cheeta and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccerpro2 Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: I think this is based on a false premise. Overrated by who? Herdman isn’t dumb. His job is to fill players with self belief and to set challenging goals. Does he actually think we are winning the WC in 2026? Hardly. Maybe we are overrated by Wheeler and a few folks at OS, but the US pundits aren’t thinking we are number 1 in the region. And Mexico isn’t trembling in fear at the thought of Canada coming to town. The only way we are over rated is if people pretend that the “Kings of CONCACAF” narrative is widely believed. It isn’t. Not by other regional powers and probably not by anyone in Canada who knows anything whatsoever about Canadian soccer. Overrated by lots of people on this board. Lots. Footyeh, Kusch to the Corner and Kent 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said: Yes, we're over rated During WCQ we went on a nice run with strong coaching, great goalkeeping and some timely goals. The World Cup, Nations League and Gold Cup exposed that we arent as good as think we are and we dont have enough depth. There is a big drop off after our top 6ish players. I hate to agree, but I must. The Americans were just as guilty for perpatrating the narratives about us, perhaps even more than ourselves at times. As recently as a month ago they were suggesting we were overtaking Mexico for 2nd best in CONCACAF, which I thought was silly and an exercise in American self-indulgance, because you see if their Arch rival Mexico is being overtaken by Canada, and Canada is inferior to America, then who is the top dog? We took that talking point and ran with it, but when Mexico beats Panama in the GC final it will restore the natural order of things in regards to narritives and perceptions. The reality is there are USA and Mexico and everyone else. We are arguably the best of the rest, but it's marginal until we gain seperation in the FIFA rankings and win a title or two. Getting to the Nations League finals is a step in the right direction, but Panama getting to the Gold Cup final is just as impressive. Had it been them who got to the World Cup and not Costa Rica (it was close), then they'd have nearly just as much of a say for being the 3rd best team in this confederation. Far as I am concerned Canada is pretty much the 3rd best team, but Panama is hot on our heels and Costa Rica are technically hanging on to their 3rd place status by a thread. Once we overtake them and stay there I think our status as 3rd best team will be more clear. Shout out to Jamaica as well for closing the gap. They belong in this conversation too. Honduras, El Salvador and others are slipping away. Good riddance. Edited July 14, 2023 by Obinna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said: Overrated by lots of people on this board. Lots. So some fans of a team think the team is better than it is? Okay. But that is literally the case for every single professional team in the world. If the question is “do some die-hard fans overrate the CMNT?” then yes, I would agree - some of them do overrate us. But I think the OP is trying to make a larger statement. johnyb and Corazon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I think we’re probably fairly rated now - likely #3 in the region at the moment with some good young players but depth that’s way behind the top two. the “kings of concacaf” stuff was always cringe and ridiculous. I don’t blame the CSA for trying to hype it, but way too many bought into it. dyslexic nam, king1010, johnyb and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceA Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I think most of us know the true power of our team. The sentiment lately, at least for me personally is both our A team and B team aren't playing to their potential, mainly because either players aren't up for it (Nations League Final) or Herdman's decision's not allowing our team to play to it's full potential (World Cup tactics and recent Gold Cup player management). The overhype is a result of a generation of fans starting to follow this team (which is awesome) but leaning into fandom tendencies and getting into Twitter wars and the likes with other fandoms (American and Mexican fans) who have a lot more history of success than us and regularly hold it over us, which only incenses the Canadian fanbase more. We all notice the crazies more because it's boring following regular takes. We are all drawn to the drama. The CSA comms team (with their stupid-ass Kings of CONCACAF bio and treating WCQ as a trophy), OneSoccer (mainly Wheeler) and the emergence of Davies and David have also contributed to this inflated sense of worth. We should also remember while we did earn 1st place in WCQ, we were very blessed a number of times. We beat CR at home because Navas was hurt and their back-up GK spilled a ball to David and that was our only goal and I believe only true chance at goal (Tajon's ridiculous bicycle attempt notwithstanding). In the following match against Mexico we should have probably drawn 2-2 after we started desperation defending and gave up one goal and nearly gave up another if it wasn't for Borjan (should note also that we can't pull that off and I don't know why Herdman insists on bunkering when we have leads late because we're not built for it and it bites us in the ass [Guadeloupe and the USA recent examples]). Then against Jamaica they were eliminated and played a rotated side against us. We didn't even top WCQ on points, we did it on GD. This summer has shown us we have a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrR Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONCACAF#Men's_CONCACAF_Ranking_Index Jedi Ram 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I think we’ve come back to earth since WCQ. We are the third best team in the federation that can hold their own against the USA and Mexico. Jedi Ram, PastPros, Pottsy3 and 11 others 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceA Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Just now, Atlantic said: I think we’ve come back to earth since WCQ. We are the third best team in the federation that can hold their own against the USA and Mexico. This is probably the most correct. I'm also interested to see how we fare against Costa Rica once they fire their coach and start calling in all their best players again who Suarez alienated during the last cycle. Soccerpro2, Fresh Prince of MTL and Corazon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestHamCanadianinOxford Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I am very attuned to dangers of overhyped and think the "Kings" thing was certainly that. But to give at least a counterpoint. These things that brought us back to earth were tournaments both held in the States. The thing that brought the rating or hype or whatever you call it was a lot more like a season. Longer, home and away, best teams mostly but players missing from all sides here and there etc. I think we showed a great base and now needed to build and didn't...yet. (Now you may counter my counterpoint by saying a national team's bread and butter will always be tournaments. Just some thoughts.) gigi riva 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Why so much love for Mexico all of sudden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigi riva Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) We are entering new territory in all facets in the game whether it be on the field or off.Have we overated ourselves ? at the beginning ya a little bit, I guess a lot of us were plain happy and overjoyed, especially after the victory vs The Americans in Hamilton . I am glad a lot of people on this Forum did not buy into the King of CONCACAF nonsense I never did . What this Gold Cup taught us is we do have talent in this country and we should be investing in more youth development, and having more training sessions with our National teams OH BtW . Screw the Americans and having all there games being played on American soil . Edited July 15, 2023 by gigi riva tarnado1555362291, narduch, johnyb and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Are we over rated? Gawd, I hope that everyone else in CONCRAP thinks so. Except, I don't think they do. Anybody who watched Nations League, and saw how the Americans played against us would suggest differently. You know, how they totally changed how they play when facing Canada. That doesn't suggest to me that we're being over rated. Quite the opposite. Canuckia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullback Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Why are we so sensitive about the kings of CONCACAF thing? Maybe a bit of hyperbole but it’s the most fair competition in CONCACAF with it being a home and away leg against each team. We’re having this existential crisis because we’ve lost to the US away and then drew them away and our takeaway is we’re shit? I’m sorry but no, if that happened during WCQ nobody would bat an eye. The improvement we’ve made is real. Are we world beaters? No, but we can beat anybody in this confederation. Corazon, tarnado1555362291, Kadenge and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Just now, Fullback said: Why are we so sensitive about the kings of CONCACAF thing? Maybe a bit of hyperbole but it’s the most fair competition in CONCACAF with it being a home and away leg against each team. We’re having this existential crisis because we’ve lost to the US away and then drew them away and our takeaway is we’re shit? I’m sorry but no, if that happened during WCQ nobody would bat an eye. The improvement we’ve made is real. Are we world beaters? No, but we can beat anybody in this confederation. Regarding the USA specifically, our last 6 results against them are (oldest to most recent): home win, away loss, away draw, home win, away loss, away draw* (pens). That's about as even as it gets. gigi riva, Corazon, Addona and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archer21 Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 I think we’re kind of overreacting to Gold Cup to be honest. In terms of depth, we’re maybe a little overrated, but I still believe in these guys when we have all of our big guns. We’re certainly top 3, and to be honest I’m not scared of Mexico. USA are probably the best in concacaf at the moment, but we are close enough that we can beat them on any given night. Corazon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrR Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 To even consider entertaining the thought of being the Kings of CONCACAF shouldn't we at the very least first win a game in the Estadio Azteca? Or anywhere else in Mexico for that matter? In the 66 years since we played our first match down there, we are still winless in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrR Posted July 15, 2023 Author Share Posted July 15, 2023 30-06-1957 Mexico vs Canada 3-0 Estadio Olimpico 04-07-1957 Mexico vs Canada 2-0 Estadio Olimpico 05-09-1972 Mexico vs Canada 2-1 Estadio Azteca 27-10-1976 Mexico vs Canada 0-0 Estadio Nemesio Diez 22-10-1977 Mexico vs Canada 3-1 Estadio Universitario 16-11-1980 Mexico vs Canada 1-1 Estadio Azteca 06-12-1983 Mexico vs Canada 5-0 Estadio Revolucion 10-05-1986 Mexico vs Canada 3-0 Estadio Azul 06-10-1987 Mexico vs Canada 4-0 Estadio Nemesio Diez 25-04-1994 Mexico vs Canada 4-0 Estadio Azteca 18-07-1993 Mexico vs Canada 8-0 Estadio Azteca 02-03-1997 Mexico vs Canada 4-0 Estadio Azteca 15-08-2000 Mexico vs Canada 2-0 Estadio Azteca 10-09-2008 Mexico vs Canada 2-1 Estadio Victor Manuel Reyna 29-03-2016 Mexico vs Canada 2-0 Estadio Azteca 07-10-2021 Mexico vs Canada 1-1 Estadio Azteca Games played - 16 Games won - 0 Games tied - 3 Games lost - 13 Goal for - 5 Goals against - 46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Who’s ‘we’ in this question? I imagine a lot of people have a lot of different opinions of the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtlMario Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 Yes I do think we are over rating ourselves that's why I think we will ONLY win 3 of the next 5 World Cups and 5 of the next 7 Gold Cups. Nations League I'm not sure.🙂 Canuckia and Jedi Ram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 7 hours ago, MrR said: 30-06-1957 Mexico vs Canada 3-0 Estadio Olimpico 04-07-1957 Mexico vs Canada 2-0 Estadio Olimpico 05-09-1972 Mexico vs Canada 2-1 Estadio Azteca 27-10-1976 Mexico vs Canada 0-0 Estadio Nemesio Diez 22-10-1977 Mexico vs Canada 3-1 Estadio Universitario 16-11-1980 Mexico vs Canada 1-1 Estadio Azteca 06-12-1983 Mexico vs Canada 5-0 Estadio Revolucion 10-05-1986 Mexico vs Canada 3-0 Estadio Azul 06-10-1987 Mexico vs Canada 4-0 Estadio Nemesio Diez 25-04-1994 Mexico vs Canada 4-0 Estadio Azteca 18-07-1993 Mexico vs Canada 8-0 Estadio Azteca 02-03-1997 Mexico vs Canada 4-0 Estadio Azteca 15-08-2000 Mexico vs Canada 2-0 Estadio Azteca 10-09-2008 Mexico vs Canada 2-1 Estadio Victor Manuel Reyna 29-03-2016 Mexico vs Canada 2-0 Estadio Azteca 07-10-2021 Mexico vs Canada 1-1 Estadio Azteca Games played - 16 Games won - 0 Games tied - 3 Games lost - 13 Goal for - 5 Goals against - 46 All I’m reading from your post is that the one game this generation of our national team played at one of the most difficult away stadiums on earth, the heavily favoured home team couldn’t even beat us. If you’re still worried about us getting beat in Mexico in 1957 might be time for a new hobby there brother gigi riva 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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