The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[David Pinto]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Another question:

In the octo we had 14,822 for game 1 vs Honduras, 15,000 for El Salvador, 26,622 for Panama, 48,806 for Costa Rica 44,212 for Mexico, 12,000 for USA and 29,122 for Jamaica. That equals 190,584 fans. Add up ticket revenue, concessions and advertising, wouldn’t  a fair bit of money have been made here? Where did it all go?

Venue costs (staff, rent, %of concessions that operator gets), putting on camps, advertising, travel and security for road matches. They would have had great revenue but how much profit is questionable. 

[Kadenge]

3 hours ago, spitfire said:

 

Deleted

Edited June 5, 2022 by Kadenge

[Free kick]

57 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Yeah, don't know if the CSA negotiated concession revenue or not but pretty standard practice as I understand it.  Happens at all sorts of events.  Isn't complicated,  Simple percentage of concession receipts on the night.

Shrug.  Did the CSA forgoe concession revenue for a more favourable venue rental?  Who knows?  Was it worth it if they did?  A-gin, who knows?

Do know this.  Probably sold more merch in 4 months over the last year or so than they've every sold in any 4 years combined.  LOL, did they make any money on THAT deal?  Say it with me, who knows? 

 

I can tell you this from observation.  The venue operations (eg.: concessions, security, ticket operation, ushers) is scaled down during Canada matches but otherwise its the same staff as during the TFC games.  So its MLSE who is paying these people.  What this tell us is that match day revenues from ticket sales are lower for MLSE, which explains the staff reductions and this is likely because a portion of the sale (of each ticket) has to go to the CSA or concacaf or FIFA(who knows).  So The CSA has to cover its costs based on the portion (whatever it is) of each ticket sale that they get.   Then you gotta ask, whose revenue is this?  The CSA? Concacaf? FIFA?  I dont know.  
 

bottom line.   Based on what i can figure out,  there no model that works for getting Agentina to come here and play for 3 Mill.!!!   Not a chance in hell.   Unless some sugardaddy like the govt steps in to pay using other line item expense.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Free kick

[Kadenge]

Regardless of how the $10M is split, the reality is that despite the success of our CWNT over many years culminating in an Olympic Gold medal, they have not been able to move the game to a level we need it to be for soccer to truly be accepted and supported in Canada, by fans, media, corporate sponsors etc. There is no denying that there is way more money in the Men's game and JH knows that. If the CSA doesn't mess up  there is a lot  of money to be made during the next 2 WCs and I expect corporate Canada will jump on the band wagon sooner rather than later. The TV ratings for the Octo blew away previous #s, Canada merchandise demand is outstripping supply, fans are lining up to buy CR&W, R&G memberships, games during the Octo selling out in a few hrs. We have not seen this happen before. I just hope the CSA gets it's act together soon to salvage Qatar and if they get it right, there will be lots of money for both the men's and women's teams going forward.

 

[dyslexic nam]

I haven’t waded into this and I definitely recognize that the CSA has had plenty of mistakes and missteps in the past, but I have to say that I am not a fan of the fact is being used by the players.  Admittedly, there could have been many indications that this would happen if the core issues weren’t resolved in advance of this window, but if this is a very recent development, I disagree with the idea of them suddenly holding this window hostage - it destroys the momentum and goodwill we had and uses the ticket-buying fans as pawns.   

Like I said, the actual facts could alter things if there are very important bits being left out of the public discourse.  And I recognize that the players are just using their newfound leverage to negotiate.  But if we blow an important and already scrambly window in the buildup to Qatar because the players decided to ambush the CSA, I think this will have been a badly executed plan.   
 

Edited June 5, 2022 by dyslexic nam

[SpecialK]

Maybe I’m beating a dead horse here. Clearly the CSA doesn’t have enough people working there but the bigger problem is clearly they don’t have people there with real vision and a plan on how to make the vision a reality. You have a bunch of people sitting with an amazing opportunity with this Golden Generation on the mens side and one of top teams in the world on the womens side and the CSA has no plan on what to do with them. It’s terrifying and as fans our PTSD is kicking in and as fans we are not shocked by the incompetence. Now finally outsiders are seeing the BS mess without blinders on. 
 

mens side- it’s been one screw up after another since we qualified. Even the draw, the CSA looked like a bunch of idiot rookies there. Jesus act like you been there before! All the heads of Associations and the manager was there. Herdman in street clothes was on TSN and Little Nicky there with a Horrible blue suit looking like a nerd at the prom in 1980s movie. Look at The Belgium manager Croatia‘s manager they looking sharp and answering questions from the international media like True professionals. When we made it to the final 8 there should have been plans, the start of negotiations with other teams for Friendlies and contracts signed . There is no excuse why we are rushing and panicking to get Friendlies at this time. They had time to figure shit out. Other teams did. This just lack of vision and organization. This deal with the players should have been already been signed right after we qualified. Everyone knew how much money the prize money was going to be for years. Question why is no team wanting to pay us to play them ? We played 400,000 for Iran ! Something doesn’t seem right here. 
 

On the women side - they have been screaming from a league for YEARS!!! Canada is one of richest countries in the world ! And we can’t do this ??? Seriously! All BS talk zero action.  Even the big celebration vs Nigeria wasn’t run very well and why would bring Nigeria in Vancouver. It was very lacking and disappointing. 
 

hey is Ralph Krueger doing anything right now ? I don’t know if Ralph is the right person but at least he’s a true sports guy that knows business and how to run a professional sport team that’s worth hundreds of millions of dollars . Nick I am sorry you and the old boys club need to go. The players and the fans demand more and better leadership. We want a real vision and plan on how to get there. Nick you have failed us. 

Edited June 5, 2022 by SpecialK

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

I haven’t waded into this and I definitely recognize that the CSA has had plenty of mistakes and missteps in the past, but I have to say that I am not a fan of the fact is being used by the players.  Admittedly, there could have been many indications that this would happen if the core issues weren’t resolved in advance of this window, but if this is a very recent development, I disagree with the idea of them suddenly holding this window hostage - it destroys the momentum and goodwill we had and uses the ticket-buying fans as pawns.   

Like I said, the actual facts could alter things if there are very important bits being left out of the public discourse.  And I recognize that the players are just using their newfound leverage to negotiate.  But if we blow an important and already scrambly window in the buildup to Qatar because the players decided to ambush the CSA, I think this will have been a badly executed plan.   
 

You really think this is a recent development for this organization that can't even have cell phone photos taken and uploaded to their site for their U20s? Most WC nations were able to book two games in this window. The CSA is having trouble with one. No, my instincts tell me this has been brewing for some time, at least since Bontis was in Europe asking his counterparts how many people they had on staff.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Sal333

[canuckgbp]

I guess now we have to ask how far will the players push this. If they miss Nations League games, that impacts the Gold Cup correct? And Fifa would have to respond. 

Couple hours ago this kind of talk seemed insane... now idk. I assumed they would have played tonight, if nothing more then for the fans. But clearly they want answers. 

[Colonel Green]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

Question why is no team wanting to pay us to play them ? We played 400,000 for Iran ! Something doesn’t seem right here. 

We were looking to host friendlies in this window. You don’t get paid to host, you get the gate.

What, if any, fee the team could command for appearances abroad hasn’t been tested yet. Though I guarantee that this debacle has lowered the number, whatever it was.

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

On the women side - they have been screaming from a league for YEARS!!! Canada is one of richest countries in the world ! And we can’t do this ???

That Canada is a rich country is immaterial, what matters is how much of that money people spend on soccer. There is no indication that that’s enough for a women’s league at the moment; the men’s league isn’t even at the point of being financing viable.

There’s plenty to criticize the CSA about, but not that.

[Joe1973]

As much as I am upset by all this...for players to do this, it's not minor. You have 2 successful senior programs and CSA is saying there is no money? Hoping Westhead investigates what this 10 year deal is all bout and who's making the money off these success.

[Floortom]

2 minutes ago, Joe1973 said:

 You have 2 successful senior programs and CSA is saying there is no money

LOL..do people really believe this?

The men's program has been successful for a few months. It's been a joke for 30+ years. 

Women's soccer doesnt generate much $$ outside of the US team.

 

The CSA is obviously a joke but pretending they're flush in cash due to our amazing programs is laughable

[canuckgbp]

 

[Ansem]

News about the CSA incompetence (accumulation of latest events)

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

 

Bontis...aka...no vision

Ouch

[Joe1973]

2 minutes ago, Floortom said:

LOL..do people really believe this?

The men's program has been successful for a few months. It's been a joke for 30+ years. 

Women's soccer doesnt generate much $$ outside of the US team.

 

The CSA is obviously a joke but pretending they're flush in cash due to our amazing programs is laughable

Sure I could have been more precise in my definition of success...

1) Women Olympics champion

2) men sold out stadiums throughout this cycle except for Covid games

3) New sponsors have been signed

4) getting a minimum of 10 million US for qualification.

5) Shirt sales (when available)

Ok they are not flush in cash. But they can't afford to even pay the accommodations of their families? Look, maybe I'm off on this but it seems that there is a wide range between being flush with cash and not having money to pay for family accommodations.

[SpecialK]

35 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

We were looking to host friendlies in this window. You don’t get paid to host, you get the gate.

What, if any, fee the team could command for appearances abroad hasn’t been tested yet. Though I guarantee that this debacle has lowered the number, whatever it was.

That Canada is a rich country is immaterial, what matters is how much of that money people spend on soccer. There is no indication that that’s enough for a women’s league at the moment; the men’s league isn’t even at the point of being financing viable.

There’s plenty to criticize the CSA about, but not that.

I understand the hosting, but why aren’t we going away ? Where’s the schedule?

Canada needs to invest in sports. Spend money to make money. The women’s game is booming. In Spain 70-80 thousand for a game. Plus link it in with the CPL - double hitter games 

[SpecialK]

14 minutes ago, Joe1973 said:

Sure I could have been more precise in my definition of success...

1) Women Olympics champion

2) men sold out stadiums throughout this cycle except for Covid games

3) New sponsors have been signed

4) getting a minimum of 10 million US for qualification.

5) Shirt sales (when available)

Ok they are not flush in cash. But they can't afford to even pay the accommodations of their families? Look, maybe I'm off on this but it seems that there is a wide range between being flush with cash and not having money to pay for family accommodations.

Plus a extra 2 million for training so really it’s 12 million 

[SpecialK]

There must be something really fishy and bad about that 10 year deal. Because the players are demanding to see the money. That’s not something small. 

[Colonel Green]

9 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

I understand the hosting, but why aren’t we going away ? Where’s the schedule?

Fall window friendlies are still in the works. That’s not just a CSA thing.

9 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

Canada needs to invest in sports. Spend money to make money.

That’s not a decision for the CSA, though. That requires investors.

Canada doesn’t even have an established professional women’s hockey league right now, and we all know how much more money there is in hockey.

9 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

The women’s game is booming. In Spain 70-80 thousand for a game. Plus link it in with the CPL - double hitter games 

The women’s game in Europe is still largely subsidized, in particular by the super-rich men’s clubs. I don’t need to tell you that we don’t have any super-rich men’s clubs.

The CPL investors haven’t shown any interest in establishing women’s teams when the men’s teams haven’t become stable yet.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Colonel Green

[canuckgbp]

 

[sose]

2 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

Fall window friendlies are still in the works. That’s not just a CSA thing.

That’s not a decision for the CSA, though. That requires investors.

Canada doesn’t even have an established professional women’s hockey league right now, and we all know how much more money there is in hockey.

The women’s game in Europe is still largely subsidized, in particular by the super-rich men’s clubs. I don’t need to tell you that we don’t have any super-rich men’s clubs.

The CPL investors haven’t shown any interest in establishing women’s teams when the men’s teams haven’t become stable yet.

TFC is a super rich men's club.. there should be a women's TFC team

[Colonel Green]

Just now, sose said:

TFC is a super rich men's club.. there should be a women's TFC team

MLSE reportedly is interested in an NWSL team. That’s realistically as much as Canada can support in the foreseeable future.

[The Real Marc]

Iran was 100% CSA bad judgment.

But this, from afar, looks very bad on the players. Like maybe they are starting to believe their own hype.

We have the perception of a bunch of pro athletes boycotting activities to ostensibly get more money out of representing their country.

In advance of the first World Cup since 86. In addition to the weak schedule for prep.

There better be something huge behind this lest they’ve wrecked momentum and public perception based on some very insular advice.

But maybe we should expect an unsophisticated national administrator to beget unsophisticated players.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by The Real Marc

[SpecialK]

https://twitter.com/tdjukic/status/1533553695589285888?s=20&t=3Fp2FfLEgah-WGikjNtDPA

[A_Gagne]

I've got mad respect for these players and can only imagine what it must feel like to battle, and sacrifice and achieve what they have, only to be told effectively, "sorry, we can't pay you more because we signed most of our revenue grow potential way for the next 7 years."

On the other hand though, before we start the usual CSA dunkfest, I think we should keep in mind that CSB is essentially the CPL club owners. I do recall the CSA engaged a sports consulting group to write a report on the viability of a D2 league in Canada, and the conclusions was that it was not viable... yet the CSA took that, disregarded it and made the CPL happen, and here we are 3 years later and despite the a pandemic that could have killed the league, it looks healthy and viable and that's a big deal for Canadian soccer.

I'm thinking the CSB agreement in question was probably critical to getting the CPL off the ground, and may still be material to the revenue and viability of the CPL.

So, yeah, player compensation and transparency are all well and good, but let's also be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here.