The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[SpecialK]

So now the mafia Hamilton deal is now in play. Interesting 

Edited June 5, 2022 by SpecialK

[Free kick]

4 hours ago, Ivan said:

Is this really a surprise to anyone?  With every country, and every walk of life, when you have leverage you use it.  Canadian players finally have their leverage.  The only surprise for me is that we didn't hear it earlier.

True.  You often read these headline when the world cup rolls around:  "Players from XXXXX county in dispute with their FA over bonuses and compensation".  Usually, its over unpaid bonuses.  

The only difference is that these stories are always centered around African countries.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Free kick

[Califax]

Not sure there’s a good rational for crossing streams with revenue. The women draw well on their own, up until last year, better than the men.  
 

I’d rather see men get a good chunk of money and the rest go into infrastructure and youth funding for boys and girls development. 
 

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

I have gut feeling they didn’t. 
why is the womens team entitled to the men’s prize money? Just as why is the mens team entitled to theirs . 

Welcome to the modern political landscape, where social media algorithms, click bait headlines and fake, misguided outrage dominates our discourse of such things. The USSF actually won the legal battle against the women because the ladies had no leg to stand on, but the USSF knew the optics looked bad so they let the USWNT have their cake and they ate it to. Canada, being even more on the woke agenda than the USA is just trying to follow suit. Anybody really surprised?

[Cheeta]

Why does the CSA even care how the men want the prize money split up?  Only because the CSA wants a chunk of that "found money".  Which, as has been mentioned a few times already is an indicator of revenue generating problems at the CSA.

If the CSA didn't come out of this last WCQing round in a very strong revenue position then that's a whole other issue the CSA has.  A Priority #1 issue I'd say.

As to why splitting the prize money with the Ladies makes sense, to my mind.  Dollar for dollar I'd guess the ladies program has pulled more than it's fair share of it's weight in financing the CSA over the decades.  Player registration and federal government financing through OTP and such have long made up the vast portion of the CSA's budget. 

Aren't more than half the players registered in Canada female?  And all the "success" financing from the feds has been awarded heavily on the performances of the women's program so.....

Growing pains.  Pain in the arse but better to have them of not.

(Was debating about including that last line, but you know, what the Hell.  Lets see where things go with that.)

    

[toontownman]

I see the Bontis hate is rife. As a figurehead he will naturally bare the brunt of abuse.

However, imo too many people are thinking lopping the head off the snake will fix things when in reality Bontis getting the boot would actually just be the snake shedding it's skin.

 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

Players don't want taxes to count.  Welcome to the real world. 

 

[Alex]

Another question:

In the octo we had 14,822 for game 1 vs Honduras, 15,000 for El Salvador, 26,622 for Panama, 48,806 for Costa Rica 44,212 for Mexico, 12,000 for USA and 29,122 for Jamaica. That equals 190,584 fans. Add up ticket revenue, concessions and advertising, wouldn’t  a fair bit of money have been made here? Where did it all go?

[king1010]

The players arent being reasonable if theyre asking for the csa to cover the income tax they pay on the income. 

[Kadenge]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Another question:

In the octo we had 14,822 for game 1 vs Honduras, 15,000 for El Salvador, 26,622 for Panama, 48,806 for Costa Rica 44,212 for Mexico, 12,000 for USA and 29,122 for Jamaica. That equals 190,584 fans. Add up ticket revenue, concessions and advertising, wouldn’t  a fair bit of money have been made here? Where did it all go?

Don't forget the Canada red&white/red&gold memberships

[Sal333]

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

Another question:

In the octo we had 14,822 for game 1 vs Honduras, 15,000 for El Salvador, 26,622 for Panama, 48,806 for Costa Rica 44,212 for Mexico, 12,000 for USA and 29,122 for Jamaica. That equals 190,584 fans. Add up ticket revenue, concessions and advertising, wouldn’t  a fair bit of money have been made here? Where did it all go?

My guess is that CSA was told the cheque is in the mail and they believed it.

[spitfire]

3 hours ago, king1010 said:

…

Edited June 5, 2022 by spitfire

[CanadianSoccerFan]

3 hours ago, spitfire said:

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by CanadianSoccerFan

[cornerkick]

are monies from winning olympic events, world cups, considered as taxable income?  some athletes get a stipend to train but no clue if they need to pay taxes on that.  the fed govt could provide a window for tax credits or some kind of relief for these windfalls...an athlete would be lucky to get 2-3 of these payments in their playing career

Edited June 5, 2022 by cornerkick

[BearcatSA]

 As @Bison44 said, we could sure use that TED talk now. 

[rkomar]

11 hours ago, clamlinguine said:

Disband women's teams that demand equal pay when they can't draw flys to their games.

 

I'm pretty sure that the CWNT has been supporting the CSA for about the last 10 years.  Their games draw crowds as large as the men's, and they have been getting Own the Podium money when they are ranked near the top of the world.  It's seems churlish of the men to want to grab the FIFA money for themselves (if that's the case) after benefiting from the women for so long.

[Free kick]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Another question:

……..for Jamaica. That equals 190,584 fans. Add up ticket revenue, concessions and advertising, wouldn’t  a fair bit of money have been made here? Where did it all go?

I dont think (in fact I high doubt) that any concession revenues go to the CSA.  The CSA is in no position or has no experise in running concessions. So why would the venue operator or owner/operator of the concessions disclose or give up any revenues from the sale of beer and hotdogs..

As for advertising, those revenues are likely accounted for whether the game is is played or not. And do they even go to the CSA?  So no new revenues for concessions and advertising.   As for the tickets sale,  i dont know how much they get.  I would love to know.  But i would imagine a sizable portion has to go the venue operator for leasing/renting the venue. They have costs to cover as well.  Then there is insurance, players, accomodations and travel, per diems.   

Edited June 5, 2022 by Free kick

[Califax]

7 minutes ago, rkomar said:

I'm pretty sure that the CWNT has been supporting the CSA for about the last 10 years.  Their games draw crowds as large as the men's, and they have been getting Own the Podium money when they are ranked near the top of the world.  It's seems churlish of the men to want to grab the FIFA money for themselves (if that's the case) after benefiting from the women for so long.

If you’ve got the numbers on this I think we can make a more informed opinion. 
 

Until the end, I’m not really sure specifically how the men have ‘benefitted’ from the women.

[Alex]

6 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I dont think (in fact I high doubt) that any concession revenues go to the CSA.  The CSA is in no position or has no experise in running concessions. So why would the venue operator or owner/operator of the concessions disclose or give up any revenues from the sale of beer and hotdogs..

Fair enough, but merchandise sales?

[spitfire]

2 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

…

Edited June 5, 2022 by spitfire

[Free kick]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Fair enough, but merchandise sales?

Yes, that would would be considered.  

[Cheeta]

Yeah, don't know if the CSA negotiated concession revenue or not but pretty standard practice as I understand it.  Happens at all sorts of events.  Isn't complicated,  Simple percentage of concession receipts on the night.

Shrug.  Did the CSA forgoe concession revenue for a more favourable venue rental?  Who knows?  Was it worth it if they did?  A-gin, who knows?

Do know this.  Probably sold more merch in 4 months over the last year or so than they've every sold in any 4 years combined.  LOL, did they make any money on THAT deal?  Say it with me, who knows? 

 

[cornerkick]

their financial statements for 2021 are online:

https://canadasoccer.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/The-Canadian-Soccer-Association-Incorporated-2021.pdf

revenues have doubled, but expenses have grown also.  i see no mention of concession revenues, unless it's part of commercial and other fees.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by cornerkick

[rkomar]

7 minutes ago, Califax said:

If you’ve got the numbers on this I think we can make a more informed opinion. 
 

Until the end, I’m not really sure specifically how the men have ‘benefitted’ from the women.

The numbers are in the budgets published by the CSA over the years.  At the very least, the OTP money meant that less money needed to be taken from the general coffers and allotted to the women.  That meant more general money for the men and administration.  It has been years since all this came up (it was big when the women were demanding more money from the CSA).  I don't remember the details, but I took away the impression that the women were doing more than their share of providing money to the CSA at the time.  Anyway, if you really want to know, read the budgets and get your data straight from the horse's mouth.

[eramosat]

after reading through this thread, it seems to me that as a board, we collectively know less about this situation, on average, than most things discussed.

a definite lack of facts, and an enormous amount of speculation, in many directions.

I usually think that when sports fans start getting interested in the $$ side of things, there is not much point to it.

Ultimately, I am not worried about the issues important to me...centred around the players doing as well as they can in the upcoming matches.

Enjoy your teeth gnashing.