Ansem Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Rollins is not a journalist. He has is opinions and his methodology is questionable. He might not be wrong 100% of the time but those who treats his tweets, words and article like unquestionable truths needs to wake up. For these kind of claims, there should be some level of evidence so I don't think he's entirely wrong but I don't like his methods and lack of evidence This below is not a good look in regards to his attitude as a "know it all" who's never wrong. But the "know it all" decided to double down Then, doesn't matter that Sissoko agent takes the time to clarify and rebuke Rollins claim that he left due to money... he knows better than the agent Or when people were criticizing Canadians vs US minutes at TFC - even after being presented with facts "the know it all" knew better and accused people of no knowing what they were talking about even when Pozuelo himself criticized TFC not playing younger players. He was moving the goalposts until this chart was posted. We were talking MINUTES not # of players getting minutes. Take this guy at his words... at your own risk deschamp86, Mikmacdo, Stryker911 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 hours ago, Big_M said: one should not forget that the owner of this site is none other than Duane Rollins and Voyageurs dont have their own site or forum Is this true?! Mikmacdo and Bison44 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 I don’t take what he says as bible, but it’s good to see/read different perspectives/attitudes to our football culture. Nothing is usually problematic, it’s always fluff pieces for guys to maintain their press passes. I refuse to accept the hockey robot culture. Watchmen, Cheeta, johnyb and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Ansem said: He has is opinions and his methodology is questionable. He might not be wrong 100% of the time but those who treats his tweets, words and article like unquestionable truths needs to wake up. Yes, absolutely. He tends to blend "fact" and "opinion", though I think that's also not uncommon among opinion columnists. 1 hour ago, Ansem said: For these kind of claims, there should be some level of evidence so I don't think he's entirely wrong but I don't like his methods and lack of evidence I think for these types of claims, that kind of "evidence" is difficult. Players aren't necessarily eager to disclose their salaries, and we've already seen that the league won't do so (either for the players or even a general guideline). I think several players liking the tweet is at least some level of evidence that it's in the ballpark. As for the claims that there's disharmony among the owners and that some decisions are made more by a few than the collective, 1) I think that happens in all leagues around the world (the big 6 in England, the big 2 in Scotland, etc) and every owner not in that group is always disgruntled. So is his comment true? Probably. Has it presented any issues with the product yet? Not that we're aware of. And again, I think people are really overestimating Rollins reach and influence. CPLinsider, Shway and Unnamed Trialist 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Watchmen said: I don't think anyone expected salaries to be high, but I think they're also lower than expected. And given this level, it maybe makes it more understandable why some kids would sign the MLS homegrown contract for about $50k rather than move over to the CPL for about $10-15k. Have to agree with this take. I seriously doubt this was the original plan. All the rhetoric surrounding the league's development pointed to trying to position themselves as a rival to MLS for players like that rather than as a low budget largely semi-pro development league on CanCon with only a largely import oriented core roster (makes sense now why they saw the quality of year one's imports as a failure bad enough to justify trying Bob Young's bizarre U-23 Moneyball strategy) earning something comparable to a minimum wage regular job. Vic Montagliani's narrative on needing a domestic pro league to provide pro level opportunities for Canadian players was not about having a league that would barely even feature in terms of callups for the recent "Camp Poutine". As delusional as it seems now they probably were serious about having the Greenpark Group build a 15,000 seat SSS for Y9 in York Region at one point and probably were expecting that the Paul B hire would somehow help to recapture what happened in the GTA market with TFC's launch in 2007. Suspect they downsized the player salary budgets in a big way only after the membership drives in 2018 timed to coincide with the uptick in interest linked to the World Cup in Russia attracted mediocre numbers in most markets that gave them a reality check on the level of fan interest in most cities in something lower budget that isn't MLS. Edited February 14, 2021 by Ozzie_the_parrot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 @WatchmenI just wanted to comment on this point you make about Rollins predicting the reaction, as if somehow doing so made his argument stronger. I don't think it works that way, we can doubt the rigour of DR's article the same way we can have some serious questions about how aspects of the leagues are handled. I personally believe this will work itself out in the short to midterm. Give us 2 seasons with fans in the stands in normal circumstances, and in 2023 at this time key aspects of CPL salary structure will be on their way to being resolved. One basic one should be recognising the Player's Association. Another would be a minimum base salary and some health benefits, esp for sports injuries over and above public health. Meanwhile, players have seen you can transfer out of CPL to MLS, loan out to Europe, even get a CMNT call. Guys who are in their 20s will still be keen about playing even with these low income perspectives (and this trickling down into your D2s and even U-Sports) as it puts them firmly in a system that is speculative. As for his criticism of the CPL front office, or what he insinuates about is being run by a few guys without consensus and without consultation: if you look at leagues and FAs around the world (as often they work together in making competitions work), there are plenty of wild, erratic and irresponsible people in charge. The state of things in Spain, for example, is shockingly bad, Tebas running La Liga is an alt-right bureaucrat who is constantly making crazy statements and showing a total lack of connection with reality. The Spanish FA president, Rubiales, just made some nutty statements about how to stem European Superleague proposals: together they are not what you would call ideal soccer administrators. They infight constantly. Similar things happen in Canada? We'll just end up confirming that you can function perfectly well with these sorts of inconsistencies, I would even argue that in football, there has to be a bit of freakiness--or wildness, or extremes-- thrown in for things to properly work, as that is a piece of what leads you towards excellence. Bbeto, gator, The Real Marc and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 12 hours ago, Watchmen said: I don't think anyone expected salaries to be high, but I think they're also lower than expected. And given this level, it maybe makes it more understandable why some kids would sign the MLS homegrown contract for about $50k rather than move over to the CPL for about $10-15k. So, remember the early years of TFC and MLS when the young Canadian homegrowns were making 15K and we were criticizing their pay? In less than 10 years, the homegrown salary is now 50-60K which is very liveable for a 16-20 year old. Give the CPL some time. Not saying that the wages will be that high in 10 years, but it will grow with the league, just like MLS has done. narduch, johnyb, Bison44 and 9 others 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 Believe the lowest salary in TFC's first season were actually $12,500. MM3/MM2/MM, Ivan, johnyb and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 The CPL has made some errors, what new league hasn't, I do think some of the negative posts are ott, it's hard to judge where the new league will be or how well it has developed when their second season ever was interrupted by a world wide pandemic keeping fans out of the seats in a gate driven league! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 15 hours ago, Aird25 said: Is this true?! Yes, Canadian Soccer News is owned (or was owned) by Rollins. The Voyagers forum moved over to it...how long ago now? Someone can correct me on any details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 5 hours ago, narduch said: Believe the lowest salary in TFC's first season were actually $12,500. It was $12,900 - the league minimum. Essentially for academy players who'd no experience, most of them living at home I'd think. Several players were at this. Looks like the highest was $300,000 for Robinson. Many were over $100,000. The union still has the August 2007 salaries online at http://s3.amazonaws.com/mlspa/2007-08-31-Salary-Information-Alphabetical.pdf By year 3 (2009), the minimum had increased to $20,100 - but I only see one TFC player at this rate (Gabe Gala - who only played one game). Everyone else seems to be over $30,000 including those remaining who were at $12,900 in 2007. http://s3.amazonaws.com/mlspa/2009-09-15-Salary-Information-Alphabetical.pdf Those at the league minimum, seldom make many appearances. And MLS also has some very high salaries. A better comparison might be the median (50th percentile) salary, as the average will be warped by the very high salaries of a few in MLS. Looking at the easier to use May 2007 salaries from https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/mls/longterm/2007/salaries_07.html the average was $98,128 while the median was $89,250 with a total payroll of $2.5 million - which must have been close to the salary cap without Designated Players. Look at LA though ... Beckham alone got $6.5 million. And with Donovan getting $900K in the cap, the LA median is actually surprisingly low! MLS has certainly advanced in the last 15-years. Hopefully CPL can do the same. narduch and Unnamed Trialist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 18 hours ago, Watchmen said: I don't think anyone expected salaries to be high, but I think they're also lower than expected. And given this level, it maybe makes it more understandable why some kids would sign the MLS homegrown contract for about $50k rather than move over to the CPL for about $10-15k. "And the best news yet you only need 11 weeks of full time employment in Winnipeg to qualify for The Dole. That'll carry you right through the 24 weeks of off season!" "Ummm. Well? Ummm. That dose make the $500 a week wages you're offering sound that much better, Mr. Gale." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Cheeta said: "Ummm. Well? Ummm. That dose make the $500 a week wages you're offering sound that much better, Mr. Gale." Did you really have to make him spell like a footballer too, @Cheeta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPLinsider Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 hours ago, nfitz said: It was $12,900 - the league minimum. Essentially for academy players who'd no experience, most of them living at home I'd think. Several players were at this. Looks like the highest was $300,000 for Robinson. Many were over $100,000. Based on the date of the union document (Aug. 31/07), that $12,900 USD was equal to $13,600 CAD at the time (1 USD = 1.0541 CAD). With CPI inflation, that puts it at about $16,667 CAD today. nfitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 On 2/13/2021 at 4:24 PM, Ozzie_the_parrot said: I received a barrage of ridicule and at times vile personal abuse on here when I posted about how people close to the Fury front office were claiming the player salary cap was going to be 500k. It's looking increasingly like that may well have been accurate rather than the 750k that was eventually generally believed and the 1.5 million that had earlier been generally assumed on here in the years before the launch (ironically mainly because of Duane R). The maximum of 7 imports on the Rollins 35k plus housing number could leave as little as 240k or so for 16 Canadians for an average of 15k per season before the 25% COVID cuts and 11.25k now. That's not realistic fully pro level money and would mean there was a built in assumption that a sizable portion of the roster is either in full-time education or working a second job to make ends meet. Meanwhile would anyone like to hazard a guess on how much David Clanachan is likely to be earning? You didn’t receive criticism because of any specific piece of content you were posting. People reacted that way to you because of the way you chose to interact in this forum. That is what made you the subject of criticism. You were constantly negative towards the project - to the point where the administrator of the site had to tell you to cease endlessly posting negativity at a time when people were trying to raise excitement levels about the project. People literally ended their participation in this the site due to your incessant negativity and the conflict it led to. Even now the only thing I ever see you post is either critical, gloating because some piece of info may be correct, or lamenting your victimization. Ironically the post I just quoted is a mix of all three. Bison44, gator, Bbeto and 12 others 13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 21 hours ago, Watchmen said: Yes, Canadian Soccer News is owned (or was owned) by Rollins. The Voyagers forum moved over to it...how long ago now? Someone can correct me on any details. Why did the Vouageurs ever agree to that? I’m out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Why did the Vouageurs ever agree to that? I’m out. I think Jamie was worried about being sued? nfitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 41 minutes ago, narduch said: I think Jamie was worried about being sued? Lol sued...for what. I’d assume it was more related to the potential of his CSA connections being affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 15, 2021 Author Share Posted February 15, 2021 35 minutes ago, Shway said: Lol sued...for what. I’d assume it was more related to the potential of his CSA connections being affected. I know you think you are smarter than everyone else but he was worried about liability issues. That was the reason he gave. I tried finding the thread where he explains this but I can't. RS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 1 hour ago, narduch said: I know you think you are smarter than everyone else but he was worried about liability issues. That was the reason he gave. I tried finding the thread where he explains this but I can't. Liability of what? Because to my knowledge, you’re only liable for what you say yourself and not the opinion of a few bad apples. Are the Voyageurs a registered nfp organization? Was is it “employees” making remarks that hindered the appearance of the org? The logic was never explained, and a lot of people still question why it was moved, as there wasn’t a “valid” explanation outside he wanted too....you say being sued...but being sued for what? Inform us of your baseless hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yothat2 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Give the cpl time. It's only the second season of the league. What happens to Thomas nef reporting cpl signings. His styled reminded me of Adrian woj from the NBA. Enjoy his tweets more than rollin Shway, Mikmacdo and Bbeto 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 The move from the Vs site to here was more about perception than anything. Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfitz Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, dyslexic nam said: You didn’t receive criticism because of any specific piece of content you were posting. People reacted that way to you because of the way you chose to interact in this forum. That is what made you the subject of criticism. It doesn't take consistent negativity to be the subject of criticism here. Even being neutral and positive much of the time, but negative on occasion, quickly starts the bullying from those who feeling defensive. It's almost as if there's an unwritten agreement to not discuss weaknesses with the league (and every league has weaknesses. We've seen it with Ozzie - who get's abuse even when he isn't being incendiary. And the abuse of Duane here is disgraceful - why the moderators haven't spanked those doing it is beyond me. Edited February 15, 2021 by nfitz The Real Marc and yellowsweatygorilla 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 29 minutes ago, nfitz said: It doesn't take consistent negativity to be the subject of criticism here. Even being neutral and positive much of the time, but negative on occasion, quickly starts the bullying from those who feeling defensive. It's almost as if there's an unwritten agreement to not discuss weaknesses with the league (and every league has weaknesses. We've seen it with Ozzie - who get's abuse even when he isn't being incendiary. And the abuse of Duane here is disgraceful - why the moderators haven't spanked those doing it is beyond me. I was just setting the record straight about the reason for the backlash. Everyone who was here and who participated in those discussions knows what happened. Constructive discussion - even when it is critical - is fine. But the way he engaged in this site was entirely toxic. longlugan, Bbeto and gator 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SthMelbRed Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 27 minutes ago, nfitz said: It doesn't take consistent negativity to be the subject of criticism here. Even being neutral and positive much of the time, but negative on occasion, quickly starts the bullying from those who feeling defensive. It's almost as if there's an unwritten agreement to not discuss weaknesses with the league (and every league has weaknesses. We've seen it with Ozzie - who get's abuse even when he isn't being incendiary. And the abuse of Duane here is disgraceful - why the moderators haven't spanked those doing it is beyond me. I'm going to have to call BS on this. BBTB gets warranted abuse on here because of a years-long, agenda-driven campaign of negativity towards anything to do with the league. Duane Rollins has many supporters on this board, as well as many detractors. This is based on his nearly 15-year long record as a quasi-journalist covering Canadian football and his past history as an active member of the V's forum. Personally, I've never been a fan. Beyond those two, most posters on this forum have levelled criticism about certain aspects of CanPL, both at league and club level, at points and haven't attracted the backlash you suggest is ubiquitous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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