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The reason Rollins' numbers were so much of a bombshell, if accurate, is that they imply that a large underspend was already happening at launch in 2019 relative to what was generally believed to be the salary cap at that point (i.e. 750k), which means that instead of $32.6k as a mean salary for a 23 man roster (not great but slightly better than working a regular minimum wage job financially with scope for EI on top) it may have been closer to $21.7k pre-COVID and that could be down to $17.4k now after the 25% cut last year.

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You didn’t receive criticism because of any specific piece of content you were posting. People reacted that way to you because of the way you chose to interact in this forum.  That is what made you th

So, remember the early years of TFC and MLS when the young Canadian homegrowns were making 15K and we were criticizing their pay?  In less than 10 years, the homegrown salary is now 50-60K which is ve

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm not sure what people were expecting. It's been widely reported that the cap is $750k. That means an average salary of about $32,600.

Have to figure that the Media Pro deal isn't very lucrative. The attendances are that big and are bad in a few markets.

On the question of leadership I'm trying to think of things that they have done that I hated:

-The trophy sucks

-The way the first Concacaf League rep was decided was stupid.

-2019 summer/winter seasons weren't balanced.

I'm struggling to think of moves that were so egregious by the league to warrant this slander from Rollins.

My theory is that some of Rollins sources that have left the league are bitter and are spilling the beans now. I'm thinking possibly Paul Beirne. I'm not really a fan of Beirne anyway considering how things soured at TFC.

I agree, CPL has done a lot right, their missteps have been mostly minor, 1 & 3 don't bug me that much, 2 might have been a CSA decision? and both the $750,000.00 reported salary cap and the unions $500,000 actual payout statement could both be correct especially for 2020.

$750,000 X .75  = $562,500

Figures can lie and liars can figure.

Edited by MM3/MM2/MM
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3 hours ago, narduch said:

I'm not sure what people were expecting. It's been widely reported that the cap is $750k. That means an average salary of about $32,600.

Have to figure that the Media Pro deal isn't very lucrative. The attendances are that big and are bad in a few markets.

On the question of leadership I'm trying to think of things that they have done that I hated:

-The trophy sucks

-The way the first Concacaf League rep was decided was stupid.

-2019 summer/winter seasons weren't balanced.

I'm struggling to think of moves that were so egregious by the league to warrant this slander from Rollins.

My theory is that some of Rollins sources that have left the league are bitter and are spilling the beans now. I'm thinking possibly Paul Beirne. I'm not really a fan of Beirne anyway considering how things soured at TFC.

What part of his tweets was slander?  He reported how a number of the salary figures were breaking down, but invited the league to correct him and had a former player back him up publicly.  If the league ownership was supposed to be more of a collective on decision making but that's not happening, that's not great either but that happens in all leagues in every sport around the world..  In terms of the more questionable leadership decisions, I think you can also add the new "international player/scouting" system to that list, which no one seems to like.

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The fact that it's Rollins driving this, the guy who lives off pathetic half-azz scoops appearing a few hours before official announcements and then argues nitpickedly over the details like a glue addict, makes me suspicious. I just assume that he lost his inside source at the CPL office and has decided the other way to go is "soccer social justice warrior" mode, as it is a way to keep the profile up: but I don't think he really gives a damn, not in the least. If he had his source close to Clanachan feeding him he'd be chirping differently. 

I, in contrast, do care; but as with most fans, I also realise that we had a promising inaugural year, and then a mess we are not over yet. It is not like anyone is in a position to say "yeah, Rollins is right, screw the CPL, I'm going to Cyprus", all huffy and offended in a Louis CK voice. And least of all some kid who is 25 and was playing two years ago for Vaughn SC or was Unattached after a stint in Slovenia. Hey, we have got like 40 or 50 of those types in the CPL. The play was pretty good both seasons, they played their hearts out, it was damn entertaining, we have amazing fans. And of course the salaries will increase if we can get on a proper growth curve of a few years. No team is dumb enough to be paying only 25% of revenue on salaries and not making playoffs perpetually, missing out on Voyageurs Cup games because they can't get past the first round. Teams will spend to compete and fans will reward them for that, plain and simple. 

But yes, a minimum salary to start, for a full season. Say 15 grand, or 18,000, full extended health for sports injuries, right to UI, some minimum to start.

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So, basically there isnt much money to go around?  Or is he trying to say that the owners are making money, coaching staffs are well paid etc and its only the players getting screwed??  Lets face it, the last year has been a huge shit sandwich, and we've all had to take a bite.  

I think of CPL as AA baseball.  Very low salaries with some aging vets, lots of hungry youngsters, but pretty entertaining, local and worth supporting.  And its something to start with, something to grow on that we didnt have a few years ago.  MLS and huge salaries are never coming to Winnipeg, Edmonton, Halifax, Hamilton.  Rollins has recently woken up and discovered the York isnt TFC, and Usports guys and L1O guys who had no league to play in a few years ago are getting paid crap. 

Shitty?? You bet, but whats the solution?  League damn near had to skip last season, is having all sorts of headaches with this season and faces empty stands and slashed income again.  In this climate Rollins loudly proclaims its about the money stupid??  CPL is the only league out there with money problems??  The CPL has built a bridge from which provincial leagues, Usports, MLS cast offs can continue their carer in a league that prioritizes them (young CDN) and if they do have the "right stuff" showcase it and move on to bigger pay cheques.  Eventually we all hope that we get more teams, more TV deals, more asses in seats, more media exposure, big profits for owners and better and better players coming through.  But this is where we are at and if we lose (to retirement) some guys now, well at least we are keeping other in (Sissoko, Novak, Ongaro, Babouli, Oxner, Carducci, Zator, Farsi) and helping others head to bigger leagues.  Its not like we didnt lose guys in their mid 20's to other professions before this.  

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6 hours ago, Big_M said:

cant forget staff salaries and housing

I received a barrage of ridicule and at times vile personal abuse on here when I posted about how people close to the Fury front office were claiming the player salary cap was going to be 500k. It's looking increasingly like that may well have been accurate rather than the 750k that was eventually generally believed and the 1.5 million that had earlier been generally assumed on here in the years before the launch (ironically mainly because of Duane R).

The maximum of 7 imports on the Rollins 35k plus housing number could leave as little as 240k or so for 16 Canadians for an average of 15k per season before the 25% COVID cuts and 11.25k now. That's not realistic fully pro level money and would mean there was a built in assumption that a sizable portion of the roster is either in full-time education or working a second job to make ends meet. Meanwhile would anyone like to hazard a guess on how much David Clanachan is likely to be earning?

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot
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56 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So, basically there isnt much money to go around?  Or is he trying to say that the owners are making money, coaching staffs are well paid etc and its only the players getting screwed??  Lets face it, the last year has been a huge shit sandwich, and we've all had to take a bite.  

 

It appears now with Rollins its more than just the player salary issue.

He is implying that the league office is doing a bad job.

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42 minutes ago, narduch said:

It appears now with Rollins its more than just the player salary issue.

He is implying that the league office is doing a bad job.

He cares more about himself than the league. How is any of this helping the players, the league and Canadian soccer as a whole?

Reporting things is one thing but the lack of context is flagrant (Revenues, new league,covid) 

The league will grow post covid, so will the wages but the timing to make this a scandal on social media when so many other businesses fired people and closed stinks of bad faith.

Just go read his recent articles where he passive-aggressively knock on the league. The imbecile doesn't realize that this isn't helping the players to downplay the league and indirectly turns off casuals to the product.

That's a dead giveaway on how little he cares about the league except as an MLS farms who knows their place and never dare talks ambition...which he constantly puts down on social media.

The man had so much potential but his inflated sense of self-worth is his greatest flaw 

End of rant - I muted the irrelevant butthurt loudmouth who never got over not being invited to the Island Games press conference 

Edited by Ansem
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10 minutes ago, Ansem said:

He cares more about himself than the league. How is any of this helping the players, the league and Canadian soccer as a whole?

Reporting things is one thing but the lack of context is flagrant (Revenues, new league,covid) 

The league will grow post covid, so will the wages but the timing to make this a scandal on social media when so many other businesses fired people and closed stinks of bad faith.

Just go read his recent articles where he passive-aggressively knock on the league. The imbecile doesn't realize that this isn't helping the players to downplay the league and indirectly turn of casuals to the product.

Thats a dead giveaway on how little he cares about the league except as MLS farms who knows their place and never dare talks ambition...which he constantly puts down on social media.

The man had so much potential but his inflated sense of self-importance is his greatest enemy. 

End of rant - I muted the irrelevant butthurt loudmouth who never got over not being invited to the Island Games press conference 

I actually wish he was as hard on the TFC FO (especially during the Ontario Teacher Pension Plan years) as he is on CPL.

But he probably has too many friends on the inside to go after them.

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If DR was writing journalism, then all facts, duly checked, would be valid to publish. And the interpretations could be drawn from them. But he is not doing journalism. He does not have a single contract of any single player not one.  He has this speculative unsourced article about salary structure, after speaking with an undisclosed number of players, and not even questioning the validity of what they say (players, like agents, might not fully disclose all remuneration, for many reasons) which he argues is corroborated because 3 ex players liked his tweet about it.

So if we are here denouncing semi-pro situations we think should be fully pro for the sake of their integrity, let's start with his journalism.

But just to show I'm fair: the same way I'd love to see Rollins write like a pro and be paid accordingly, backed by a proper editor supporting his independent research, I'd love for the CPL to be fully pro and the players paid accordingly. And I'm willing to wait for both--only the soccer part matters to me a lot more.

 

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Even the CPL players association's 500K number seems to be an estimate and not a given fact if you read their words closely on it from what I've seen.

Real number could be closer to the 750K figure, and with USL D2 paying young players even less (6k) for many than the 10K talked about for CPL's younger players, and USL also having teams with 400-500k USD salary budgets for some of their D2 clubs, our very young D1 CPL salaries are understandable for the startup league with only 1 full season having been played plus an abbreviated tourny for the coronavirus year of 2020.

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I really don't care about Rollins, but having read his article a lot of you are reacting the way he predicted you would: rushing to protect the league from any negative criticism.  This article isn't going to impact the "casual" fan, because nobody reading Rollins is a casual soccer fan.  Rollins is an idiot, but anyone who thinks he doesn't want the CPL or Canadian soccer to succeed is also an idiot.

In terms of what the salaries are at, I think it's important to know at least in a general sense of where things are at.  The league initially promoted minimum $50k salaries and "livable wages".  The rumoured salary cap went from "7 figures" with speculation on this board of anywhere from $1.5 to $3m, but then was announced as "7 figures for players and management", with the final salary cap then settling in to the $750k range.  We think.  But who knows, because the league refuses to release any figures. So, they didn't hit their initial target.  That's fine.  We can now judge how the league does with it's growth, while hoping that things improve for both the players and the teams.

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4 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I really don't care about Rollins, but having read his article a lot of you are reacting the way he predicted you would: rushing to protect the league from any negative criticism.  This article isn't going to impact the "casual" fan, because nobody reading Rollins is a casual soccer fan.  Rollins is an idiot, but anyone who thinks he doesn't want the CPL or Canadian soccer to succeed is also an idiot.

In terms of what the salaries are at, I think it's important to know at least in a general sense of where things are at.  The league initially promoted minimum $50k salaries and "livable wages".  The rumoured salary cap went from "7 figures" with speculation on this board of anywhere from $1.5 to $3m, but then was announced as "7 figures for players and management", with the final salary cap then settling in to the $750k range.  We think.  But who knows, because the league refuses to release any figures. So, they didn't hit their initial target.  That's fine.  We can now judge how the league does with it's growth, while hoping that things improve for both the players and the teams.

It's not just the article it's the content on his Twitter feed too. That's actually where he is saying more damning things 

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11 minutes ago, narduch said:

It's not just the article it's the content on his Twitter feed too. That's actually where he is saying more damning things 

On a general basis or just right now?  Again, I don't bother to follow him.  His recent tweets about the league office having some significant departures seem to be backed up by a couple of other people hearing something similiar.

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57 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Admittedly I’m late to this but - wrong or not - I don’t get Rollins’s alarm. Who realistically expected the salaries to be any higher? Who thought this league would sustain topped-out players like Carreiro into their mid 20s? I don’t understand the surprise.

I don't think anyone expected salaries to be high, but I think they're also lower than expected.  And given this level, it maybe makes it more understandable why some kids would sign the MLS homegrown contract for about $50k rather than move over to the CPL for about $10-15k.

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