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50 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

So a much more prolific & younger goal scorer the past two seasons, plus and international spot and TAM money and this first right of refusal on an undisclosed player (whoever that is - doubt it's Ben Spencer though) for Mullins, a guy with 1 goal in the past 2 years?

So I don't think its as much as Bezbatchenko valuing Hamilton but more not being able to say no to a pretty sweetheart deal.

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I dont understand this at all.  We are giving up TAM??  Mullins has the bigger salary, i thought we were trying to free up cap space?? We want another INT spot but we have guys like Bakero and Endoh taking up the ones we have??  And dont we still have a spot open?? 

I am this close to being done with TFC.  It is better for Hamilton, Chapman etc to get out of there.  Maybe in a new city they will be treated equally and not get the reverse treatment from Vanney.  If there was another league minimum option besides Fraser, Lareya and Shaffelbourg,, they would be sitting.  Look at Endoh resurface, how long before endoh is taking the minutes that Shafflebourg should be getting.  And the new signing pushes Deleon back to RB, and Lareya sits for the rest of the season.  Fraser will be glued to the bench once Bradley, gets back.  The 6million dollar man that can be damn near replaced by a 20 year old local product that makes 70 a year.

And Vanney has the gall to talk about "now its serious".  Maybe he'll get serious when he is looking for a place for his pets to play next year.  Who else is going to take him, the nephew and Delgado as a package deal??  

 

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Actually Vanney talked about how he wants to play De Leon in the middle more and more and not on the wing, so I don't think you'll see Laryea getting pushed out for him - that battle there will be with Auro and I think Laryea might win that the way Auro has been playing this year even when he was healthy. De Leon taking up central midfield minutes is not good news for Chapman but it's not good news for Delgado either as there is only so much room in midfield with the others all being DP's and TAM players. As for Shaffelburg, both Curtis & Vanney seemed to say in the pressers that his emergence helped to solidify which TAM winger they would sign. It looks like they got Gallardo to pay on the right because they now have Shaffelburg on the left. So it's more likely to be Endoh that gets to be the odd man out in that scenario, which might be fair enough because he tends to be weak defensively and bodied off the ball.

The key issue going forward for me is the Bradley/Fraser dilemma. Even the US pundits who have been defending Bradley since the 2017 WCQ failure have admitted that he's lost another couple of steps. He is only going to continue to decline while Fraser is only going to continue to get better - unless they nail him to the bench of course. At the very least they need to do more squad rotation with those two, in situations where they have 3 games in a week (like next week) or a congested schedule because of VCup matches (which happens in August).

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1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Actually Vanney talked about how he wants to play De Leon in the middle more and more and not on the wing, so I don't think you'll see Laryea getting pushed out for him - that battle there will be with Auro and I think Laryea might win that the way Auro has been playing this year even when he was healthy. De Leon taking up central midfield minutes is not good news for Chapman but it's not good news for Delgado either as there is only so much room in midfield with the others all being DP's and TAM players. As for Shaffelburg, both Curtis & Vanney seemed to say in the pressers that his emergence helped to solidify which TAM winger they would sign. It looks like they got Gallardo to pay on the right because they now have Shaffelburg on the left. So it's more likely to be Endoh that gets to be the odd man out in that scenario, which might be fair enough because he tends to be weak defensively and bodied off the ball.

The key issue going forward for me is the Bradley/Fraser dilemma. Even the US pundits who have been defending Bradley since the 2017 WCQ failure have admitted that he's lost another couple of steps. He is only going to continue to decline while Fraser is only going to continue to get better - unless they nail him to the bench of course. At the very least they need to do more squad rotation with those two, in situations where they have 3 games in a week (like next week) or a congested schedule because of VCup matches (which happens in August).

Come on GL, you know this just means Osorio will sit!😀

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Guys need to relax Mullins for Hamilton is really a trade between a guy who wasn’t going to play for a guy who might get a shot to play but likely will just sit on the bench. If it means not seeing Boyd on the field then it cant be that bad. 

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35 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

Guys need to relax Mullins for Hamilton is really a trade between a guy who wasn’t going to play for a guy who might get a shot to play but likely will just sit on the bench. If it means not seeing Boyd on the field then it cant be that bad. 

But why didnt Hamilton get some minutes.  He was actually scoring and it seemed like Vanney went out of his way not to put him on the field.  To run 1 striker formations and put Poz in as a striker.  These little grudges he holds against players and then the extension of every possible chance to succeed to others is really wearing thin for me.  Balbouli is blackballed, then Hamilton, while certain players just keep trotting out no matter what kind of **** results they produce.  The manager has to be held accountable for these kinds of things when they hurt the team.  I think we still have the largest payroll of any team in MLS, and Vanney can barely keep us in playoff contention?  Its time to get serious.  

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Maybe I have missed something because since the CPL has kicked off, I haven’t followed TFC nearly as closely. Looking at the numbers (and a few performances I have actually seen), Hamilton has out-performed the other strikers not named Altidore. No he hasn’t been entirely consistent but that is what you often get from a backup striker who I don’t recall ever having a proper run of games. 

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4 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

Hamilton did get a chance this year. I was at the dc game and he was embarrassing bad. 

Now I know your just jerking me around.  600min is a chance?? 4 goals in 7 starts isnt good enough??  You think Mullins gets 4 goals in 7 starts??  

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5 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Now I know your just jerking me around.  600min is a chance?? 4 goals in 7 starts isnt good enough??  You think Mullins gets 4 goals in 7 starts??  

His goals werent anything special. The dc game alone he should habe had two more goals but was awful.  akinolas one goal was more impressive. 

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Posted (edited)

There still seems to be some confusion about the deal. My understand is this:


Toronto receives Patrick Mullins with most of Mullins' salary staying on the Crew's books

 


Columbus receives:


- Jordan Hamilton

- $50k TAM

- Import slot for the remainder of 2019

- First right of refusal for an unnamed import player.

 

Edited by Blizzard

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17 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

His goals werent anything special. The dc game alone he should habe had two more goals but was awful.  akinolas one goal was more impressive. 

They weren't stylish enough for your liking, the 2 goals that rescued the match against Minnesota weren't good enough? I hope Boyd and Mullens are able to turn things around and score some pretty goals!

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hamilton scored one goal in seven league starts..other three were on sub appearances and mostly open net..started five of six league games april 27 to may 18 and didnt score..did well to score four but not much other than that..yes its better than boyd but after 5-6 years in toronto good time to move on for both sides..hopefully does well in clb but with zardes accam williams gonna be tough to get time

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On 7/11/2019 at 11:23 AM, to70 said:

Let's be realistic a bit. If its about the passport then why the heck are Fraser.,Laryea and Shaffelburg playing time over Chapman and Hamilton.

Because the narrative tends to win out over reality. Years ago people were saying the same about how unfair TFC was towards Osorio and now he's a TAM player and currently the highest-paid Canadian in MLS.

Canadians absolutely could be getting more playing time (at TFC and in MLS as a whole), but in Hamilton's case this probably best for him.

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I've said this in other threads but Hamilton as a sub and Hamilton as a starter seemed to be two different players.  Sub Hamilton would get himself in the right position to get those late goals.  Starter Hamilton would disappear for large portions of the game.  I want the guy to succeed, but a starting striker needs to at least have a presence on the field.

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5 minutes ago, AvroArrow said:

I've said this in other threads but Hamilton as a sub and Hamilton as a starter seemed to be two different players.  Sub Hamilton would get himself in the right position to get those late goals.  Starter Hamilton would disappear for large portions of the game.  I want the guy to succeed, but a starting striker needs to at least have a presence on the field.

I agree.  I think he can find a journeyman niche as situational striker but not sure for how long.  I hope he does well with Columbus.

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Good win for Toronto against the Impact.

Gonzalez really gives the team a solid presence in the back. Wins everything in the air. Distributes well to set up attacks. He is calm with the ball as well. Mavinga looked better alongside him and has the speed to cover. 

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Good win for Toronto against the Impact.

Gonzalez really gives the team a solid presence in the back. Wins everything in the air. Distributes well to set up attacks. He is calm with the ball as well. Mavinga looked better alongside him and has the speed to cover. 

It was a decent game, Montreal is playing awful lately even York9 looked like a better team on wed. 

I liked what I saw from Omar. I am a little bummed about Fraser getting benched and I would like to see Vanney play Richie at RW not Deleon. I think Deleon should be a super sub, he has played about 4 positions this year. 

Hopefully Gallardo at least comes off the bench on wed. 

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Posted (edited)
On 7/14/2019 at 3:42 PM, AvroArrow said:

I've said this in other threads but Hamilton as a sub and Hamilton as a starter seemed to be two different players.  Sub Hamilton would get himself in the right position to get those late goals.  Starter Hamilton would disappear for large portions of the game.  I want the guy to succeed, but a starting striker needs to at least have a presence on the field.

Yes.  When all is said and done, he scored 11 goals in five years wearing a TFC jersey.  I too wanted him to succeed but if you look closely at those numbers you would find many were scored in the soccer equivalent of the what they call the garbage minutes in basketball.   One of the ones this year he was the beneficiary of one of the worst offside missed call that TFC ever benefited from. 

He came to the club as teenager and got five years out of it.  When you get five year, you cant say that the club hasnt been patient.  He is now 23, so he is not prospect or developing player anymore.  With that kind of productivity over five years, it shows that TFC is giving a chance to developing canadian players because he would never get five years at the same club to show what you got in europe.  He has played 1500 minutes last year and this year,  over 900 minutes in 2016, thats more than enough time to show your stuff.

that said,  i hope he find his game in Columbus.  Different faces and different suroundings,  different tactics, different culture might work miracles.  

Edited by Free kick

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23 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Yes.  When all is said and done, he scored 11 goals in five years wearing a TFC jersey.  I too wanted him to succeed but if you look closely at those numbers you would find many were scored in the soccer equivalent of the want they call the garbage minutes in basketball.   One of the ones this year he was the beneficiary of one of the worst offside missed call that TFC ever benefited from. 

He came to the club as teenager and got five years out of it.  When you get five year, you cant say that the club hasnt been patient.  He is now 23, so he is not prospect or developing player anymore.  With that kind of productivity over five years, it shows that TFC is giving a chance to developing canadian players because you would never get five years at the same club to show what you got in europe.  He has played 1500 minutes last year and this year,  over 900 minutes in 2016, thats more than enough time to show your stuff.

that said,  i hope he find his game in Columbus.  Different faces and different faces,  different tactics, different culture might work miracles.  

Well said. 

Unfortunately, I don't think he's even madethe bench since his move, has he?

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Free kick said:

Yes.  When all is said and done, he scored 11 goals in five years wearing a TFC jersey.  I too wanted him to succeed but if you look closely at those numbers you would find many were scored in the soccer equivalent of the what they call the garbage minutes in basketball.   One of the ones this year he was the beneficiary of one of the worst offside missed call that TFC ever benefited from.

Under the current interpretation of the offside rule that goal wasn't offside. Let's get some facts straight here. He scored 15 goals in parts of 3.5 seasons with the big club, not 11 in 5 years. He played a total of 14 minutes combined in his first two seasons for the first team as a teenager so to call those two first season as full "years" seems a little disingenuous on the stats front. This was the only (half) season where he was with the big club the whole season (except for one game for TFC2 he played this  year, in which he scored in). As for the notion that he only or mostly scored unimportant goals, I don't think that stands up to analysis. In his first year he scored his first goal early in the 2nd half against Orlando which at that point tied up the game before TFC eventually lost on a 97th minute bogus PK. The other goals he scored that year were the tying goals against Columbus and the team's only goal in a 1-1 draw vs. Seattle as well as what turned out to be the winning and insurance goals in the Canadian Championship semi-final against Montreal. That's 5 for 5 in terms of being significant goals, not bad for one's de facto rookie year.  I don't believe his goals for the big club in 2017 were all that significant (I seem to recall one was the final one in a 5-0 drubbing against Columbus but the other was an insurance marker in a 2-0 victory over DC so hardly insignificant - but he also drew a key PK in NYC that Vazquez converted to give TFC a 2-2 draw and pretty much seal up first place for them). In 2018 one of his two goals in the league was a 25 yard game-tying strike against KC on the road while this year of the three other goals he got in league play (out of four), two were game tying goals and one was a game winner. I don't think the claim that most of his goals were "garbage-minute" goals (ie. scored when the result was already determined) holds up to factual scrutiny.

This season he remains, at the time of writing, in sole possession of 3rd place in club scoring with 5 goals in all competitions, 4 in league play. The only two players who are ahead of him are Pozuelo & Altidore, who are also each paid several million dollars more than he is and should be expected to have many more goals than he does. Despite two other strikers (Akinola & Boyd) who combined only have one fifth of the number of goals (one of whom makes $100k more than Hamilton does) that Hamilton, we instead got rid of the only striker this season who actually seemed to score big goals coming off the bench (we got rid of our previous super-sub- also a Canadian - in the off-season). Which fair enough, means that because his stats are actually pretty good & he has a habit of scoring important goals, he has some value so we could get someone decent in return which the other two can't do (at least, not yet for Akinola who is only 20). However Mullins did not give me any confidence that he will be "super-sub" difference maker from what I saw in his rather poors TFC debut, making think - initially at least - that TFC's striker depth is now worse than it was before the trade. We probably need a 2nd striker now more than we did before we traded Hamilton, because after Altidore goes off the field, there's no one left now among the strikers that I have any confidence might get a goal off the bench

Edited by Gian-Luca

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7 hours ago, Obinna said:

Well said. 

Unfortunately, I don't think he's even madethe bench since his move, has he?

He hasn't, but then Columbus collectively has better striker depth than TFC does after they made that trade for Williams. I like their 2nd striker more than I like ours. It will be more of a challenge for Hamilton there, as he only really had Altidore clearly ahead of him at TFC, whereas now he has both a US international striker and a Jamaican international striker ahead of him at Columbus.

Vanney seemed to throw a number of players under the bus in the post-game press conference saying that players who were given a chance in that game who hadn't played in a while might not get another chance for a while after they blew their opportunity and played poorly. Not sure if he's throwing Mullins (who didn't see a minute in the first two games) into that group given he was ineffective and subbed off at half time - although I was not impressed, I think that would be harsh if that's the case given all of the chances Boyd had been given this year to give Mullins only a half and then say "that's it". Hopefully he was primarily talking about his nephew - not sure if the tv cameras picked it up but Zavaleta had about 3 or 4 players screaming at him after that 3rd goal by Houston, including Altidore who was shaking his fist in rage at him over his crap, un-manly defending on the play. Yes, he wasn't alone, but clearly primarily responsible and he and Ciman as a CB pairing are particularly deadly, Houston could have run a truck through the centre of the defense the whole night had they needed more goals.

Chances are though that I bet Vanney was referring primarily to Chapman and Fraser. Chapman was in part to blame on goal #2 as he didn't check his blind side to see that the left back had continued his run, but then so was Vanney because I can't for the life of me understand why he keeps trying to play Chapman out wide. As has been noted by just about everyone, including KJ just about every week on his podcast, Chapman is not a wide player. He's not a guy that bombs down the wing or beats you one on one, he's a central midfielder with good shot and pretty good offensive distribution and an underrated tackler. Vanney knows he's not a wide player because prior to the signing of Gallardo and Shaffelburg, Vanney himself was saying that DeLeon was the only sort-of winger they had on the team. So what does he do on this game? Plays a central midfielder in Chapman out wide and puts his previously only "sort-of" winger in the middle. There were all sorts of questions in the media about why Vanney played a de facto B team against Houston but the logic of that is easy to figure out (other than I don't understand where Mavinga was since he only came on late as a sub on Wednesday) - the logic of putting Chapman on the wide right, Endoh out of position on the left and DeLeon in the middle is what they should have been asking. Or maybe why wasn't Morrow rotated out as well given Morgan must be feeling pretty confident after scoring on Wednesday while Morrow played his third game in a week and looked off (IMO) against Houston.

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