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7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

What  exactly did Boyd do against Vancouver to earn a start vs KC?   JH left Chapman behind cause he was going to get lots of minutes? 😡

I am really baffled as to what Vanney sees that most of us don't and why he makes these decisions!

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Just now, gator said:

I am really baffled as to what Vanney sees that most of us don't and why he makes these decisions!

He must dominate practice or something because it makes no sense or Hamilton isn’t good starting but seems to be really good as a sub. Akinola would be great to have right now. 

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Vanney and management have blinders for certain American players. 

He also doesn't appear to be a good coach at developing youth into full time first team players. 

Really do think he got lucky and the team caught lightning in a bottle and where totally amazing for about a 1.5 year span

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27 minutes ago, gator said:

I am really baffled as to what Vanney sees that most of us don't and why he makes these decisions!

I'm not 100 % sure its just Vanney making this call.  TFC management probably spent a disproportionate amount of money on Boyd and now they are giving him way more chances than he deserves to try and show fans they didn't make a big mistake. 

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25 minutes ago, narduch said:

Vanney and management have blinders for certain American players. 

He also doesn't appear to be a good coach at developing youth into full time first team players. 

Really do think he got lucky and the team caught lightning in a bottle and where totally amazing for about a 1.5 year span

How hard is it to win when you spent way more money than any other team in MLS? A good coach probably wins you two titles instead of one. 

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Vanney seems to have a thing for tall strikers with no skills. This is 3 in a row now; Spencer, Bakero, Boyd

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1 hour ago, Ivan said:

I'm not 100 % sure its just Vanney making this call.  TFC management probably spent a disproportionate amount of money on Boyd and now they are giving him way more chances than he deserves to try and show fans they didn't make a big mistake. 

I agree with you that this could be the case, the problem is the more Boyd plays, the more it looks like a big mistake and Hamilton sits in the meantime! If management is in fact influencing Vanney's decisions the club is in for a rough ride, nothing good ever happens in these situations in any sport!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, narduch said:

Vanney and management have blinders for certain American players. 

He also doesn't appear to be a good coach at developing youth into full time first team players. 

Really do think he got lucky and the team caught lightning in a bottle and where totally amazing for about a 1.5 year span

Jordan Hamilton now has 11 goals in 50 league games for TFC across his career.

Vanney is the only TFC first team coach he's played under.

You could make an argument he's successfully developed Hamilton from a youth into a full time first team player.

Some may have different expectations for Hamilton than I do, but for a homegrown Canadian forward to score 11 goals in 50 league games at the age of 23, I would consider that to be success, generally speaking. 

Edited by Obinna

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2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Jordan Hamilton now has 11 goals in 50 league games for TFC across his career.

Vanney is the only TFC first team coach he's played under.

You could make an argument he's successfully developed Hamilton from a youth into a full time first team player.

Some may have different expectations for Hamilton than I do, but for a homegrown Canadian forward to score 11 goals in 50 league games at the age of 23, I would consider that to be success, generally speaking. 

11 goals in 50 doesn't even sound that bad, but 1 goal for every 229 minutes of MLS play sounds better.

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Maybe its a case of Vanney having no choice but to give Hamilton a shot.  You could also say that he might have held Hamilton back, giving minutes to other players who had yet to even prove themselves at USL level (Spencer).  It was always going to be tough for him to break into lineup, but between Altidores frequent injuries there has been times when anyone else would have had him penciled in.  How he got his mins cut back after 2016 I'll never know.  But kudos to TFC for resigning him and sticking with him.   

Reminds me of Shome with Montreal.   He went from playing a ton in NASL, to being a hyped draft pick, to the coach doesnt rate him and he is invisable for 2 years.  Maybe he wasnt ready until now, we'll never know.  

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The issue with Hamilton is that he dazzles as a sub and underwhelms as a starter.  If he could score as a starter at the rate that he does as a sub, he'd be a monster.

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1 minute ago, AvroArrow said:

The issue with Hamilton is that he dazzles as a sub and underwhelms as a starter.  If he could score as a starter at the rate that he does as a sub, he'd be a monster.

Then Vanney should start pulling boyd after about 20min for Hamilton, because Boyd has shown almost nothing so far.  

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4 hours ago, Obinna said:

Jordan Hamilton now has 11 goals in 50 league games for TFC across his career.

Vanney is the only TFC first team coach he's played under.

You could make an argument he's successfully developed Hamilton from a youth into a full time first team player.

Some may have different expectations for Hamilton than I do, but for a homegrown Canadian forward to score 11 goals in 50 league games at the age of 23, I would consider that to be success, generally speaking. 

I really don't think we should be giving them credit for a player they essentially released and re-signed at the last minute. 

Besides what other young player has developed under Vanney? Osorio maybe? Vanney has been here since 2014. I would expect more

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18 minutes ago, narduch said:

I really don't think we should be giving them credit for a player they essentially released and re-signed at the last minute. 

Besides what other young player has developed under Vanney? Osorio maybe? Vanney has been here since 2014. I would expect more

Thats not fair, Vanney has done everything he could to help Delgado, Zavaleta, Bono........

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8 minutes ago, narduch said:

I really don't think we should be giving them credit for a player they essentially released and re-signed at the last minute. 

Besides what other young player has developed under Vanney? Osorio maybe? Vanney has been here since 2014. I would expect more

Why not? That doesn't even matter in my opinion. The fact he was released becomes irrelevant the moment they re-signed him. 

None of what you said takes away from those career numbers of his. Let's be honest and recognize this for what it is - successful player development of a Canadian professional player.

What about Chapman? 

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13 hours ago, Kadenge said:

What  exactly did Boyd do against Vancouver to earn a start vs KC?   JH left Chapman behind cause he was going to get lots of minutes? 😡

It's probably what Boyd didn't do against Vancouver that earned him another start - that is, he didn't give up the ball in the final third to the opposition, eventually resulting in a goal against off of a PK, which is what Hamilton did in that game. KJ reported in his podcast that Vanney was furious at Hamilton on the sidelines for that and so clearly he blamed him for that goal against even though Hamilton lost the ball deep in Vancouver's half of the field and he had about 5 teammates behind him who could have done better in preventing Vancouver from marching down the field. So I wasn't surprised at all that Boyd got the start over Hamilton as it gets back to what Caldwell says about Vanney not fully trusting Hamilton.

The yin to that yang however is that Vanney shouldn't be trusting that Boyd can actually score in this league or for this team as he has yet to do so and with the Gold Cup break it may be until July that Boyd finally gets his first goal of the season, even though he was projected to be the #2 striker behind Altidore who will have missed 50% of the games to date once the Gold Cup is over. Hamilton, by contrast, has proven that he can at least put the ball in the net every now and then which is the prime purpose of the strikers so in my view that should be the trump card in starting Hamilton. However, Hamilton has now scored two game tying & one game winning goal off the bench (75% of his goals in MLS play this year) so it could be argued that this is where he is most effective. Let's not underestimate that goal against KC - yes, it looked like a simple tap in and it was simple for strikers who can actually score with their feet (like Hamilton) - but Boyd completely missed striking the ball at all on a very similar chance last week against Vancouver. So I'm not going to take it for granted that Boyd would have made that run same run at the end of the game last night and got his feet sorted out to one-time that pass into the back of the net on the final chance of the game. My guess is that all of those goals he scored in B2 must have been because wingers were putting the ball into the air for him to win the header and that's how he scored the majority of his goals (maybe I'm totally wrong on that but what else are we supposed to think based on what we've seen?"

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Typical Vanney.  Reyna goes right at Moor/Ciman, twists them inside out, forces a fairly soft penalty call and Vanney has a mad on for Hamilton.  But you are right, we shouldnt be surprised. But its about time the coach/gm started getting judged as harshly as "some" of the players.  Keep signing USMNT retreads and playing your favs from Chivas 8-9 years ago.   Cripes Moor played like **** against Salt lake and San Jose, and then gave up back to back penalties.  So wheres the fury there?? Henry gives up penalties and we all lose our **** over it.  

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, narduch said:

Chapman is another example that shows they suck at developing youth!

He needs to be playing way more. 

Chapman went from an NCAA player to an MLS professional with 75 league appearances and 6 goals at 25 years old. That's fine man.

Chapman is a very bad example if you're trying to demonstrate that Vanney sucks at developing players.

By the way, I wish he was playing more too, but that is called Chapman earning minutes, nothing more. He is not the only talented midfielder vying for game time.

Edited by Obinna

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10 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Typical Vanney.  Reyna goes right at Moor/Ciman, twists them inside out, forces a fairly soft penalty call and Vanney has a mad on for Hamilton.  But you are right, we shouldnt be surprised. But its about time the coach/gm started getting judged as harshly as "some" of the players.  Keep signing USMNT retreads and playing your favs from Chivas 8-9 years ago.   Cripes Moor played like **** against Salt lake and San Jose, and then gave up back to back penalties.  So wheres the fury there?? Henry gives up penalties and we all lose our **** over it.  

Spot on man, moor has been awful since coming back from injury. Its time he moves into coaching. 

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Hamilton's equalizer is a contender for goal of the week:

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/06/09/vote-att-goal-week-week-15

From a "Team Goal" perspective & game drama perspective I think it should be the winner - particularly when you consider that Pozuelo and Telfer had never even practiced together before and yet they they are the guys who basically set up the goal (with Delgado also contributing).

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