CPL General

[Macksam]

7 hours ago, dbailey62 said:

Your credibility here has to be questioned when you flippantly state that "MLS is garbage". It's most certainly not one of the world's top leagues and nor should that be expected but it is a very decent league in the overall scheme of things and if you truly believe that MLS is garbage, what will you call CPL which isn't even aspiring to be close to its level for the near future?

I think garbage is just the word he likes to use because it's how he personally feels about it. Obviously, the league's quality isn't "garbage". Most of the players that play in the league are functional, as in they can do the bare minimum to pass as a professional. However, that's just it, the players are just functional. So, instead of garbage, the right word I like to use is soulless and I think that's how a lot of people feel including him. MLS is soulless. With a few exceptions, there's no fire, no grit, generally the players look like their just going through the motions and that's it. I think that's going to be the huge difference between the CPL and MLS. I don't care for designated players. I rather see a bunch of young guys giving their left nut to maintain possession, making hard tackles, driving up the field with a creative run, stuff that you see in the Croatian, Uruguayan and even Dutch first divisions....and believe me, we have that in abundance with the kids coming up. MLS isn't the right league for those players to develop in.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Macksam

[PhillyJawn-guy]

9 minutes ago, Macksam said:

I think garbage is just the word he likes to use because it's how he personally feels about it. Obviously, the league's quality isn't "garbage". Most of the players that play in the league are functional, as in they can do the bare minimum to pass as a professional. However, that's just it, the players are just functional. So, instead of garbage, the right word I like to use is soulless and I think that's how a lot of people feel including him. MLS is soulless. With a few exceptions, there's no fire, no grit, generally the players look like their just going through the motions and that's it. I think that's going to be the huge difference between the CPL and MLS. I don't care for designated players. I rather see a bunch of young guys giving their left nut to maintain possession, making hard tackles, driving up the field with a creative run, stuff that you see in the Croatian, Uruguayan and even Dutch first divisions....and believe me, we have that in abundance with the kids coming up. MLS isn't the right league for those players to develop in.

The problem is MLS would rather pay retired stars and mediocre South Americans instead of properly developing American players because the former is easier to do and takes less effort. That's the reason MLS is still niche after 20 years because it isn't a top league in the world but Americans can't personally relate to it because there are no real clubs or domestic players getting a shot. The CPL should avoid this and know that since it won't be a top league in the world like the Prem or La Liga they can connect with Canadian soccer fans to convert them into following the league. One way is actual clubs that benefit the community, not franchises that can be moved anytime and only exit to pocket money for billionaire owners. I mean it isn't hard to detect differences between a true club and a money-making franchise, right?

Also the reason MLS is soulless and lacking grit is the league owns all the teams and there's no real reward for winning and no punishment for poor results so you can coast without feeling any urgency of competition. I think this is an important lesson for CPL is to avoid keeping single entity and becoming complacent in the long run. The CPL should take measures to have the league survive the first few years but once the league becomes solvent clubs should have the freedom to run themselves without central control.

Edited November 18, 2018 by PhillyJawn-guy

[baulderdash77]

To me the problem with MLS is the wonky salary spot rules. It certainly caters to building a roster of aging stars while not supporting and developing domestic content.  

I think the expansion of DP and TAM spots has really hindered the development of the US player pool and we can now see that a few years later as the USMNT is in a structural decline.

The CanPL has a chance to really turn into something great if they avoid the hokey rules MLS has adopted and build from the ground up the right way.

[baulderdash77]

By the way there are now 54 DP’s playing in MLS and there’s only 9 Americans and 0 Canadians in there.

There’s also 138 TAM players in MLS.

When 193 players or over 8 per team in a league are signed under some kind of exception to your normal salary rules then the rules are not rules anymore.

I don’t know why American leagues seem to contrive all these exceptionally  complex rules to govern their leagues that fans have to become capologists or lawyers to figure out what’s going on. 

[1996]

2 hours ago, baulderdash77 said:

By the way there are now 54 DP’s playing in MLS and there’s only 9 Americans and 0 Canadians in there.

There’s also 138 TAM players in MLS.

When 193 players or over 8 per team in a league are signed under some kind of exception to your normal salary rules then the rules are not rules anymore.

I don’t know why American leagues seem to contrive all these exceptionally  complex rules to govern their leagues that fans have to become capologists or lawyers to figure out what’s going on. 

 

3 hours ago, Macksam said:

I think garbage is just the word he likes to use because it's how he personally feels about it. Obviously, the league's quality isn't "garbage". Most of the players that play in the league are functional, as in they can do the bare minimum to pass as a professional. However, that's just it, the players are just functional. So, instead of garbage, the right word I like to use is soulless and I think that's how a lot of people feel including him. MLS is soulless. With a few exceptions, there's no fire, no grit, generally the players look like their just going through the motions and that's it. I think that's going to be the huge difference between the CPL and MLS. I don't care for designated players. I rather see a bunch of young guys giving their left nut to maintain possession, making hard tackles, driving up the field with a creative run, stuff that you see in the Croatian, Uruguayan and even Dutch first divisions....and believe me, we have that in abundance with the kids coming up. MLS isn't the right league for those players to develop in.

The MLS is the way it is mainly because of what happened to the old NASL when it folded in 1984 that I lived through when not only did I lose my team the Toronto Blizzard but a whole league too , and that’s why the MLS is set up the way it is , it’s as simple as that nothing more nothing less . Moreover , give me a bloody break there are plenty of bloody teams in the MLS that play possession type soccer TFC included but keep bashing if it makes you feel good life is too bloody short to feel miserable all the time.

[Macksam]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

Moreover , give me a bloody break there are plenty of bloody teams in the MLS that play possession type soccer TFC included but keep bashing if it makes you feel good life is too bloody short to feel miserable all the time.

Possession type soccer? I never said anything about that and yes, many teams including TFC play that. I'm talking about the individual player and what I say is accurate. 

I'm not bashing TFC btw and if you keep supporting it, good for you. I actually still want them to be well supported and I am indifferent one way or the other on whether they eventually jump ship or not. If they stay in MLS, I hope the league evolves and they are able to grow appropriately in it.

[baulderdash77]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

 

The MLS is the way it is mainly because of what happened to the old NASL when it folded in 1984 that I lived through when not only did I lose my team the Toronto Blizzard but a whole league too , and that’s why the MLS is set up the way it is , it’s as simple as that nothing more nothing less . Moreover , give me a bloody break there are plenty of bloody teams in the MLS that play possession type soccer TFC included but keep bashing if it makes you feel good life is too bloody short to feel miserable all the time.

The MLS was set up because of the failure NASL.  But it’s grown a lot in revenue and instead of raising the general talent and play they’ve created a system of getting aging stars to drive attendance.

 

The league quality is way better now than in 2007 of course.  Way better.  But the arcane rules and salary setup are seriously screwed up.  They should hit the reset button and simplify things.

With all that being said, a league pulling in those kinds of attendance and revenue figures is a success on all fronts.  

[saladroit]

7 hours ago, Macksam said:

MLS is soulless. With a few exceptions, there's no fire, no grit, generally the players look like their just going through the motions and that's it.

The playoffs this year tell me otherwise, it's been brilliant proactive and entertaining soccer for the most part.

And the level of the regular season was great too. Not sure what this opinion is based on

[Macksam]

8 minutes ago, saladroit said:

The playoffs this year tell me otherwise, it's been brilliant proactive and entertaining soccer for the most part.

And the level of the regular season was great too. Not sure what this opinion is based on

Observation.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

I think many Canadians especially on here and reddit.com overestimate the quality of MLS thinking it's some super league at a level that the CPL can't possible even touch. Let's face it, MLS is NOT a top league in the world, in fact it isn't even top 50 and CPL can definitely close the gap w/MLS before MLS even dreams about competing with Liga MX. There should be NO reason CPL can't be #2 in our region after Mexico.

And as to being soulless, how much excitement can you get watching a whole season of non-competitive intramural friendlies?

[Copes]

4 hours ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

I think many Canadians especially on here and reddit.com overestimate the quality of MLS thinking it's some super league at a level that the CPL can't possible even touch. Let's face it, MLS is NOT a top league in the world, in fact it isn't even top 50 and CPL can definitely close the gap w/MLS before MLS even dreams about competing with Liga MX. There should be NO reason CPL can't be #2 in our region after Mexico.

And as to being soulless, how much excitement can you get watching a whole season of non-competitive intramural friendlies?

When you talk like this you can't even really be taken seriously. 

MLS's quality is rising rapidly. It is easily a Top 20 league,  and it isn't hard to Google league rankings and find people who place ti Top 10. Obviously league ratings are arbitrary, but an aggregate across multiple sources is a little more valuable. Further, MLS has been consistently improving its CONCACAF Champion's League results, which is the best way in which to measure the league against Liga MX. This year TFC lost in a shootout after beating two top-tier Mexican teams. MLS is closer to Liga MX than ever before. 

You're entitled to dislike MLS. I really don't care. But CPL is going to have clubs with starting payrolls that are 1/5th of MLS' lowest paid team (Houston, $5,673,471) and 1/26th of the highest (TFC, $26,167,498). I'm not arguing that CPL shouldn't dream big, nor that CPL can't strive to catch up to MLS quickly. But with your posts around here you are doing nothing but projecting your feelings, and your feelings aren't in line with reality.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

Canada has a top 10 economy of the world and plenty of passionate sports fans. Besides hockey, what's preventing Canada from having a popular domestic soccer league? Canada could at least afford payrolls higher than Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, etc initially. And MLS's payroll figures are misleading since a lot of it is distorted toward DP's and a few TAM's. I can't see why the squad players for CPL teams can't be the same or better than MLS ones. And quality of a team depends more on your weakest link(s) than having a few superstars.

[deschamp86]

1 hour ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Besides hockey, what's preventing Canada from having a popular domestic soccer league? Canada could at least afford payrolls higher than Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, etc initially. 

Travel. Flights and hotel costs are going to eat away at a large part of the budget which under other circumstances could go to the players

[PhillyJawn-guy]

2 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Travel. Flights and hotel costs are going to eat away at a large part of the budget which under other circumstances could go to the players

Travel for potential CPL locations can't be as much as the US, right? Unless you're putting teams in the territories most of the places are within 100 miles of the US border. Unless you know something I don't CPL won't have clubs in Nunavut.

[deschamp86]

1 hour ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Travel for potential CPL locations can't be as much as the US, right? Unless you're putting teams in the territories most of the places are within 100 miles of the US border. Unless you know something I don't CPL won't have clubs in Nunavut.

I was quoting you for a comparison with Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama. I never said anything about the US

[KW519]

13 hours ago, saladroit said:

The playoffs this year tell me otherwise, it's been brilliant proactive and entertaining soccer for the most part.

And the level of the regular season was great too. Not sure what this opinion is based on

@Macksam is right about MLS. And it's MLS' fault for creating an environment where going through the motions is all that's required. Of course there are clubs that go above and beyond and maintain a high level throughout the season, but then you have "Don't worry if you finish dead last San Jose, no pressure at all. You wont be relegated and can try again next year. You will probably earn yourself the rights to the most talented NCAA player in the country, your players will have nothing to worry about in terms of dropping a level or being sold, and you will probably be rewarded with an even higher budget next year. Just make sure you show up and go through those motions so we can get these ticket sales in."

If you're at a temporary job and the manager walks in and says 19 of the 22 temps will be kept full time I guarantee you have people busting their ass, doing their best work to make sure they're 1 of those 19. If the manager walked in and said all 22 will be hired full time, I guaratee work rate doesn't improve, and you have people simply going through the motions because they have that security blanket. Similar to what we see in MLS and other North American leagues.

I praise MLS for giving Canada a platform to grow the game here, but I absolutely hate how they run their league like it's the NBA, or NHL where mediocre performances are rewarded and ticket sales come before sport.

 

 

 

[Copes]

7 hours ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

Canada has a top 10 economy of the world and plenty of passionate sports fans. Besides hockey, what's preventing Canada from having a popular domestic soccer league? Canada could at least afford payrolls higher than Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, etc initially. And MLS's payroll figures are misleading since a lot of it is distorted toward DP's and a few TAM's. I can't see why the squad players for CPL teams can't be the same or better than MLS ones. And quality of a team depends more on your weakest link(s) than having a few superstars.

Nothing at all, but it isn't going to happen day one. 

The budget for CPL has all but been set. It's approximately $1M. So yeah, overtime we will likely pass countries with less successful economies. As we should, and should have years ago. 

As for your points about MLS squads, you're projecting your feelings again. Sure, huge amounts of TFC's salary figure are dedicated to a few players. Doesn't matter. If the CPL $1M figure is to be believed, than a 23-man squad will make an average of $43,478. There isn't a player on TFC that makes that. The lowest paid players don't make that. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/552202/player-expenses-of-toronto-fc/

Even if CPL doubles its salary to $2M (who knows how far out that is) the average player will fall somewhere between Jordan Hamilton and Ben Spencer. 

So I mean, I get it. You hate MLS. I think that CPL should strive to compete with them. But given that your initial statement was "CPL can definitely close the gap w/MLS before MLS even dreams about competing with Liga MX" I'm gonna call BS because top MLS teams are ALREADY competing with Liga MX, and CPL doesn't exist yet and is no where near competing with MLS based on salary figures. 

And just so I don't get accused of using the highest paid MLS team as a comparable, here is the lowest paid team's salaries. Once again, if CPL doubled their salaries we could buy the bottom 7 TFC players and the bottom 8 Houston players. None of which are starters (to my knowledge, I don't watch tons of Houston).

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/05/10/houston-dynamo-player-salaries-2018/
 

There is no rational argument to be made that "I can't see why the squad players for CPL teams can't be the same or better than MLS ones". I can. Starting salary cap. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Copes

[Daryn27]

Just got my FC Edmonton season tickets very very affordable,$440 dollars for 2 season tickets which includes 14 regular season games and 1 Voyageurs cup match! I honestly can’t complain, also when I was speaking with the rep, he mentioned they were 95% sure the league would be to either 10 or 12 teams the following season without Ottawa in the equation so that’s awesome!

[Ansem]

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Not quite Okean Nakhodka vs Baltik Kaliningrad, but there's a reason why it's been difficult to sustain a domestic pro league when soccer is only a niche sport.

[rob.notenboom]

So while everyone’s dissecting the small details of CanPL, let’s just stop for a second and think back to this time four years ago. I don’t think at that time it was reasonable to think a pro soccer league was in the near future in Canada. 

And now it’s 5 months away. 

Seriously ... holy crap. ?

 

[Ansem]

1st CPL game EVER to be in Hamilton against York 9?

 

 

[Blackjack15]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

Victoria to Halifax by flight is: 4,476 KM, 3rd longest in World domestic Football leagues! If you were to add Victoria to St John’s you would get 5,064 KM, 2nd to Perth to Wellington in then A-League! 

Canada has something unique here, both a challenge we must embrace and find solutions to 

[Cblake]

It will be interesting to see with both the CPL and Canadian Elite Basketball League in 2019 , how it will go especially in markets like Edmonton and Hamilton that will have teams in both. As we know once you get past the footy diehards you have to rope in the casual ticket buyer you will simply looking for an entertaining time out and these two league will be competing , especially on the sponsorship level. 

[toontownman]

1 hour ago, Cblake said:

It will be interesting to see with both the CPL and Canadian Elite Basketball League in 2019 , how it will go especially in markets like Edmonton and Hamilton that will have teams in both. As we know once you get past the footy diehards you have to rope in the casual ticket buyer you will simply looking for an entertaining time out and these two league will be competing , especially on the sponsorship level. 

Not sure about the other cities but I know in Saskatoon they will be looking to engage the Rush Lacrosse crowd. They have similar format in turning the games into a club style atmosphere with a DJ courtside. I understand the season in terms of trying to overlap with the lacrosse and stay out of the way of Hockey and Football but for me at least it seems stupid to have basketball inside in the hottest months of the year. Regardless of liking either sport, I'd much rather be outside watching something than inside. I think soccer will appeal more to the football crowd. Who knows.