CPL General

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

We are probably seeing the first player pool mentioned below at the moment and some of the U-23 tranche in York 9's case. We haven't seen the open draft of the 1000 Canadians they have video on yet unless that got dropped?

https://valourfc.canpl.ca/article/checking-in-with-the-commissioner-from-open-trials

...This week we actually started talking about how this all comes together. You build a club on many different levels. I talk about foundational players, these Canadians who have gone away and plied their trade somewhere else. They’ve gone away and played professionally, they’ve earned a living at it and more than likely have been capped for Canada. They’re getting to a point in their career where they are wondering, ‘What do I do next? Do I become a coach? Do I get in the front office of a team? But I also want to pass on my talent and my knowledge in the world of soccer to younger people coming up.’ That’s one of the (player) pools.

We’ve also talked about this idea of Under-23s and how we build a roster with some Under-23s, the future talent, and a tranche of them. And then we’re going to go with an open draft of the thousand Canadians we know are playing professional soccer abroad that we have video on. Then there are the homegrowns.

Invariably, the top questions I get in any market I go to is ‘Will we see some Winnipeg boys (or whatever market he is in) playing on this team?’ That’s important.

And from that has come the draft for U-Sports (players) and that is part of it. Eventually, we will get to drafting internationals as well, but not nearly as many as we have in terms of Canadian content. That’s by design. That’s not by accident. We want that to happen. It’s important for Canada and for the local towns and regions that we’re in...

Edited November 30, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

12 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Right!? They were supposed to finalize  roster rules and reveal them this month, I wonder what’s taking so long for the league to get it done 

The order doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. First signings then this

They have never said they were going to release roster rules this month. They have talked about how we will “know more”. But I assume that means that they are releasing signings and such. I don’t expect roster rules to be released until all the teams have their full rosters, if ever.

[Ansem]

 

 

 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

As of right now, Edmonton will be the most development focused team. I am 95% sure of it. If they aren’t, it means that some other team is investing heavily in that. Edmonton has already committed to continue running their U-16 and U-18 academy teams, as well as starting a U-23 Development squad. I am sure we will see a lot of young players seeing the field for Edmonton. 

Another awesome thing to be noted, is that JP has stated that players will be able to move between the development squad and the CPL, so there likely will not be extreme roster rules like the MLS for that stuff.

[Keegan]

Hopefully the free movement of players from developmental squads to senior team and vice versa = no players association.

 

[RickC]

Further about Barrie, Simcoe leagues are not at the level of York, and baseball is pretty popular around here. But, Barrie Soccer Club is "investing" in rep down to U8 now and recognizes what they need to do to close the gap with York. It would be terrific to see a L1O team which may help gauge local interest in something more (e.g. CPL II) and give a further pathway for local talent to develop. As it is now, the best players migrate to York for their development.

[Ansem]

9 minutes ago, RickC said:

Further about Barrie, Simcoe leagues are not at the level of York, and baseball is pretty popular around here. But, Barrie Soccer Club is "investing" in rep down to U8 now and recognizes what they need to do to close the gap with York. It would be terrific to see a L1O team which may help gauge local interest in something more (e.g. CPL II) and give a further pathway for local talent to develop. As it is now, the best players migrate to York for their development.

Perhaps a CPL II down the road in that market would further stimulate the growth of the sport in that region?

Import talent (Canada and abroad), incorporate a few in the team and watch the sport explode in the region.

Business + demographic wise... Barrie makes absolute sense for a CPL II market 

[Kent]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Perhaps a CPL II down the road in that market would further stimulate the growth of the sport in that region?

Import talent (Canada and abroad), incorporate a few in the team and watch the sport explode in the region.

Business + demographic wise... Barrie makes absolute sense for a CPL II market 

Can you explain the difference between a CPL and a CPL II market? I presume you are assuming an East/West split in CPL II to reduce travel costs. Are you also presuming no pro/rel between CPL II and CPL?

For me the difference between a CDL (I don't want "Premier" in the name of our 2nd division) and CPL market is just the order in which they arrive. If you are one of the first 16 teams or so to get your team together, you are a CPL market as long as your team can survive there.

[shamrock]

One thing I hope CPL will become a showcase for European clubs so our guys can skip MLS all together. Just need one Larin / Davies to get the attention (and of course a steady increase in quality of the league overall). 

[RickC]

18 hours ago, Kent said:

Can you explain the difference between a CPL and a CPL II market? I presume you are assuming an East/West split in CPL II to reduce travel costs. Are you also presuming no pro/rel between CPL II and CPL?

For me the difference between a CDL (I don't want "Premier" in the name of our 2nd division) and CPL market is just the order in which they arrive. If you are one of the first 16 teams or so to get your team together, you are a CPL market as long as your team can survive there.

For me, CPL is as you state it, is the first teams to arrive. Typically, they would be in the larger cities, with existing stadia or pop-up types, with a high level of financial backing. Perhaps there needs to be certain minimum standards, such as stadium size of 5k now (maybe increasing in several years?). It would be from sea to sea, share in media contracts, etc. These teams would come in later in the Canadian Championship, and the winner would get Champion's League.

CPL II (or whatever name you'd prefer) would be at least an east/west split, smaller cities or late arrivals, stadium size of, say, 2k, etc. I would like pro/rel so eventually these teams could be in CPL. They would be earlier into the Canadian Championship. The tricky part comes when Barrie, for example, gets promoted and then must expand their stadium? Possibly to be relegated the next year? If they don't increase their capacity they don't play at home, like what the Bundesliga does. Just to be clear, I don't think any requirement regarding stadium size has been officially raised before. Anyone know if other leagues have minimum stadium requirements?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The key to future expansion to the point that they need multiple divisions and promotion and relegation to accommodate teams in markets like Barrie is to keep stadium requirements modest and salary budgets relatively low. Paul Beirne described that sort of strategy in depth in a podcast back in the summer of 2017 not long after the league got its initial CSA sanctioning.

Having Halifax and Victoria on board at the launch with Saskatoon still being mentioned quite often as a possible year two expansion location is a strong indication that they are actually serious about it and are not aiming to create something similar to the CFL in terms of the number of franchises and stadium sizes, so there is really no reason to view a city like Barrie as anything other than a potential CPL market (albeit one of the least likely ones) at this point given its wider metro population is 200,000+.

In hockey, the key to making things work in spectator terms in the OHL is to move players out from the Golden Horseshoe to smaller cities where people will actually pay to watch them play, because there are fewer entertainment options. L1O teams based in the outer fringes of the GTA draw flies in attendance terms but move some of the best younger players out to somewhere like Windsor or London (more likely Ontario options) and mix in the top local guys with some more experienced fringe CMNT types and imports to bolster the spine of the team and good things could happen.

[KW519]

31 minutes ago, RickC said:

For me, CPL is as you state it, is the first teams to arrive. Typically, they would be in the larger cities, with existing stadia or pop-up types, with a high level of financial backing. Perhaps there needs to be certain minimum standards, such as stadium size of 5k now (maybe increasing in several years?). It would be from sea to sea, share in media contracts, etc. These teams would come in later in the Canadian Championship, and the winner would get Champion's League.

CPL II (or whatever name you'd prefer) would be at least an east/west split, smaller cities or late arrivals, stadium size of, say, 2k, etc. I would like pro/rel so eventually these teams could be in CPL. They would be earlier into the Canadian Championship. The tricky part comes when Barrie, for example, gets promoted and then must expand their stadium? Possibly to be relegated the next year? If they don't increase their capacity they don't play at home, like what the Bundesliga does. Just to be clear, I don't think any requirement regarding stadium size has been officially raised before. Anyone know if other leagues have minimum stadium requirements?

All non-league teams in England have to meet stadium requirements of 4000 capacity with at least 500 seated with room for expansion before they can enter League 2. If the requirements in CPL only call for less than 1k seated small market clubs can make the jump without taking much risk and slowly expand as needed. I imagine these requirements will be reviewd and adjusted accordingly when the appropriate time comes

[1996]

8 hours ago, shamrock said:

One thing I hope CPL will become a showcase for European clubs so our guys can skip MLS all together. Just need one Larin / Davies to get the attention (and of course a steady increase in quality of the league overall). 

Yes God forbid a CPL player has to play in the MLS before he goes to Europe , I really feel for a guy like Davies who had to spend a few years in the MLS, hopefully he will be ok and his time in the MLS won’t hurt him lol!

[1996]

21 hours ago, RickC said:

Further about Barrie, Simcoe leagues are not at the level of York, and baseball is pretty popular around here. But, Barrie Soccer Club is "investing" in rep down to U8 now and recognizes what they need to do to close the gap with York. It would be terrific to see a L1O team which may help gauge local interest in something more (e.g. CPL II) and give a further pathway for local talent to develop. As it is now, the best players migrate to York for their development.

When I was coaching at a Toronto area youth club back in the early 2000’s up until around 2014 we played Barrie Youth Club boys team many times in Tournaments and league games , that Barrie Youth soccer club I would venture has a lot more registered players than baseball and probably pretty close to what Barrie youth hockey has , so as far as youth sports registration soccer is probably second in terms of participation in the Barrie area with hockey being number one, so I think there is a good base of soccer liking people in the Barrie area and League 1 Ontario needs to be in Barrie as soon as possible and then maybe from there in the future get into a CPL 2 kind of league.

[shamrock]

1 hour ago, 1996 said:

Yes God forbid a CPL player has to play in the MLS before he goes to Europe , I really feel for a guy like Davies who had to spend a few years in the MLS, hopefully he will be ok and his time in the MLS won’t hurt him lol!

I don't know if you realize MLS teams have very little incentive to sell players, as they only get a fraction of the transferfee themselves. Let alone intra-league transfers, which are only for bogus-money. MLS doesn't want to pay a lot for talents either (unless they're proven in established leagues like the Argentina Primera Division). 

Let's take you example and have a Davies starting his career in CPL, you'd really advise the kid to go to MLS before Europe? For what reason? 

[C2SKI]

22 minutes ago, shamrock said:

Let's take you example and have a Davies starting his career in CPL, you'd really advise the kid to go to MLS before Europe? For what reason?

Depends which club in Europe. MLS is a better destination than many European leagues, and several clubs have shown signs recently that they can both develop players and move them along to bigger destinations.

[1996]

1 hour ago, shamrock said:

I don't know if you realize MLS teams have very little incentive to sell players, as they only get a fraction of the transferfee themselves. Let alone intra-league transfers, which are only for bogus-money. MLS doesn't want to pay a lot for talents either (unless they're proven in established leagues like the Argentina Primera Division). 

Let's take you example and have a Davies starting his career in CPL, you'd really advise the kid to go to MLS before Europe? For what reason? 

As we have seen with a real talent like Davies if you are the real deal you do well in the MLS and a big European team will come calling and your MLS team will come make some good coin too , Vancouver came out with some good money on the transfer and might make even more depending on how Davies does.  Until the CPL level increases which it will hopefully in time ,doing  well in the CPL will not automatically have  big European teams come calling until the level increases so playing in the CPL first then going to the MLS will be what a lot of players will do until the level in the CPL increases in the future and their is nothing wrong with that . However , maybe one day the level of the CPL will get really good that a lot of players will go directly to a decent European level league . In the end who cares as Canadian soccer fans the more Canadian players playing in good level league the better be it MLS or whatever league that may be.

[HochelagaFC]

1 minute ago, 1996 said:

As we have seen with a real talent like Davies if you are the real deal you do well in the MLS and a big European team will come calling and your MLS team will come make some good coin too

The problem with MLS is not when you are the real deal like Davies, it’s for young players like Cyle Larin who dreams of playing in Europe. For that kind of player I think they will benefit more from playing 1 or 2 years in CPL then go to an european team instead of being handcuff to an MLS contract. 

[1996]

46 minutes ago, HochelagaFC said:

The problem with MLS is not when you are the real deal like Davies, it’s for young players like Cyle Larin who dreams of playing in Europe. For that kind of player I think they will benefit more from playing 1 or 2 years in CPL then go to an european team instead of being handcuff to an MLS contract. 

But in the first few years until the level of the CPL gets better players we still make the move from CPL to MLS regardless of the MLS contract situation, moreover, if I’m  a player making 50000 in the CPL and an MLS team comes calling and pays me 150000 I’m going to the MLS it’s a no brainer and I’ll deal with the so called handcuffed MLS contract if a European team comes calling . Yes Larin had a bit of a delay sorting out his contract with his Turkish team in the beginning but because he was a proven goal scorer in the MLS his  Turkish team did not give up and eventually got him. In the first few years or how long it takes for the CPL to reach a very good level financially and playing levels players will make the move from the CPL to the MLS but is that going to stop people from going to CPL games it shouldn’t and why should it? Do people in Scotland not go to Scottish Premier league games because some players may go to the English Permieir League or even the English Championship for a higher level of play and for making more money? I doubt it they accept the level of play and the money players are making and follow their team. I’m a TFC season ticket holder but I realize if TFC played in the English Championship they probably would struggle but does that stop me from going to games and following my team hell no.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

23 minutes ago, 1996 said:

But in the first few years until the level of the CPL gets better players we still make the move from CPL to MLS regardless of the MLS contract situation, moreover, if I’m  a player making 50000 in the CPL and an MLS team comes calling and pays me 150000 I’m going to the MLS it’s a no brainer and I’ll deal with the so called handcuffed MLS contract if a European team comes calling . Yes Larin had a bit of a delay sorting out his contract with his Turkish team in the beginning but because he was a proven goal scorer in the MLS his  Turkish team did not give up and eventually got him. In the first few years or how long it takes for the CPL to reach a very good level financially and playing levels players will make the move from the CPL to the MLS but is that going to stop people from going to CPL games it shouldn’t and why should it? Do people in Scotland not go to Scottish Premier league games because some players may go to the English Permieir League or even the English Championship for a higher level of play and for making more money? I doubt it they accept the level of play and the money players are making and follow their team. I’m a TFC season ticket holder but I realize if TFC played in the English Championship they probably would struggle but does that stop me from going to games and following my team hell no.

Yes, but if a player leaves the CPL for the MLS I would hope they would be making more than the MLS minimum which many players are in the MLS. Like Larin, who they tried to keep on his entry level contract forever even though he was a top scorer.

hopefully the players will have more bargaining power and better development because they won’t be stuck in a MLS B team situation forever.

Edited December 1, 2018 by BenFisk'sBiggestFan

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, HochelagaFC said:

The problem with MLS is not when you are the real deal like Davies, it’s for young players like Cyle Larin who dreams of playing in Europe. For that kind of player I think they will benefit more from playing 1 or 2 years in CPL then go to an european team instead of being handcuff to an MLS contract. 

Why wouldnt they be "handcuffed" to any contract they sign in the CPL??  I dont think the CPL teams (when they have guys like Davies/Larin coming through) are likely going to roll over and let those guys out of contract unless they get compensated big time.  Same as MLS.  

[PhillyJawn-guy]

13 hours ago, shamrock said:

One thing I hope CPL will become a showcase for European clubs so our guys can skip MLS all together. Just need one Larin / Davies to get the attention (and of course a steady increase in quality of the league overall). 

Agreed. If Canadians have to go to MLS they might as well give up any hope of being successful or world-class. It doesn't have to be Europe, just anywhere but MLS since we've see how MLS ruins careers and traps players in purgatory. Canada can be better than the US in developing/selling players, so with CPL launching MLS is not necessary anymore. Also in the future, I hope the national team coach will have the guts to banish any Canadian MLS players from call ups and give ones who want to play in MLS a warning.

[PhillyJawn-guy]

5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Why wouldnt they be "handcuffed" to any contract they sign in the CPL??  I dont think the CPL teams (when they have guys like Davies/Larin coming through) are likely going to roll over and let those guys out of contract unless they get compensated big time.  Same as MLS.  

CPL have real clubs and players are not contracted to the league. Players should have more freedom this way than having a central power deciding everything.

[HochelagaFC]

1 minute ago, Bison44 said:

Why wouldnt they be "handcuffed" to any contract they sign in the CPL??  I dont think the CPL teams (when they have guys like Davies/Larin coming through) are likely going to roll over and let those guys out of contract unless they get compensated big time.  Same as MLS.  

When I said handcuffed I’m talking about the unilateral options, I hope CPL don’t go that route. I also think that CPL will be more willing to sell players if they’re is interest in Europe.

Cyle Larin is probably not a good exemple for the CPL but let’s say you are eligible for the MLS super draft or could sign for a CPL club with a goal to ultimately play overseas. I think the best route for that will be to play regularly in Canada rather than be a benchwarmer in MLS. Better exemples would be Kwame Awuah, Richie Laryea or Amer Didic. 

[Bison44]

3 minutes ago, HochelagaFC said:

When I said handcuffed I’m talking about the unilateral options, I hope CPL don’t go that route. I also think that CPL will be more willing to sell players if they’re is interest in Europe.

Cyle Larin is probably not a good exemple for the CPL but let’s say you are eligible for the MLS super draft or could sign for a CPL club with a goal to ultimately play overseas. I think the best route for that will be to play regularly in Canada rather than be a benchwarmer in MLS. Better exemples would be Kwame Awuah, Richie Laryea or Amer Didic. 

  I dont get the logic, most of us think the first few years of CPL wont be a lot better than typical USL play, based on potential salary numbers floating around.  MLS is a step or two up so why wouldnt you want our youngsters to give it a shot, see if they can make it if they get interest??  Didic had almost no options coming out of college and played at USL level (probable CPL level) for 3 years (70+ games) and couldnt make any progress moving up a level.  Lareya since he turned pro got 30 USL games and 20 MLS games with Orlando and orlando 2 and hasnt been able to stick at the MLS level.  Awuah, I'll grant you has rode the pine.  If are young guys get interest from better leagues than CPL, by all means go and try.  I am hoping the CPL will scoop up overlooked guys that for whatever reason dont get other offers.  

As far as unilateral options, they are common in most other sports, the players/agents know all about them when they sign.