CPL General

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 hour ago, Keegan said:

It’s more like the WHA v NHL than AHL v NHL, though both are inaccurate...

Really depends on what the salary budgets look like. The rhetoric from some bloggers and podcasters two or three years back was very much WHA, but the reality is looking increasingly ECHL, which is no bad thing from a player development and league longevity standpoint.

[Ansem]

38 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Really depends on what the salary budgets look like. The rhetoric from some bloggers and podcasters two or three years back was very much WHA, but the reality is looking increasingly ECHL, which is no bad thing from a player development and league longevity standpoint.

You can't make that kind of comparison.

ECHL is under the AHL which is under the NHL. They are interconnected

This isn't the case here. Only in Canada-US such comparisons keeps being brought up due to our history of cross-border leagues. That's why the rest of the world doesn't think that way in soccer. The Ukrainian league don't see themselves as the "Championship" of EPL. They see themselves as D1 of Ukraine, plain and simple.

The rest is irrelevant. CPL is Canada's D1 and that's all there is to it. You can keep calling it "minor league" or "ECHL" all you want... have fun with it if it brings you satisfaction. The rest of us will simply enjoy our D1 league.

[Complete Homer]

Like it has been said, no valid comparison exists since MLS has been clear that they will not expand further into Canada. MLS is not a tier in Canada, the MLS teams are largely isolated outposts of the American system

For most of the country, it will be CPL or nothing, just like if the CFL wouldn't lose much in most of the country if Toronto got an NFL team. In the places they will coexist, they are competitors, not tiered

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

8 minutes ago, Ansem said:

...Only in Canada-US such comparisons keeps being brought up due to our history of cross-border leagues...

...which isn't ending any time soon. It's not an exact analogy, but once you have markets like Victoria and Halifax involved and league officials are talking about 200k and up being the target market size you can't sensibly draw parallels to the WHA, because they are going for an economic model that is inherently smaller scale than MLS, which is no bad thing. Hopefully once it is up and running people will lose these hangups over who is D1 as the pecking order becomes obvious to all through things like Voyageurs Cup games and will just enjoy having more pro soccer teams in more cities from coast to coast.

[Ansem]

13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Hopefully once it is up and running people will lose these hangups over who is D1 as the pecking order becomes obvious to all through things like Voyageurs Cup games

I see what you did here...?

However, how sure are you that the CSA won't change it's domestic quota requirements for the Voyageurs Cup? I sure hope they increase it to match CPL's because...

OH BOY do they look ordinary at best when they try to start more Canadians. That's not a jab against Canadian players, but if the CSA goes down that route, (which I hope to God they do), I seriously think that in the medium term, CPL develops better Canadians than the MLS Academies and they will be exposed on that front. You'd be surprised how many Americans still think that the best Canada has to offer comes from MLS Academies while we know unaffiliated academies has produced the likes of David, Davies, Larin and others.

You should be supporting that. If their CCL opportunity is threatened by a higher Canadian quota requirement in the Canadian Championship, that should motivate them to find ways to develop better quality and more Canadians. If we don't push those 3, they fall into complacency.

Anyhow, it's a damn Canadian Championship, they should try to win with more Canadians for a freaking change. Use whatever roster you want in CCL once you win.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Ansem

[Keegan]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Really depends on what the salary budgets look like. The rhetoric from some bloggers and podcasters two or three years back was very much WHA, but the reality is looking increasingly ECHL, which is no bad thing from a player development and league longevity standpoint.

No, this isn’t even close if we are using NHL as MLS.  

The average ECHL salary is $30k .. the NHL average is $2.4 million. 

That is 1/80 the salary.

the average CPL salary let’s say is $30k as well.. the mean average MLS salary is $316k (the median is around 120k which is more accurate).  

That is 1/10th and that is with me skewing numbers to make them look good for you.  Any logical person would probably say 1/4 because DPs are an anomaly.

So, please.  If people are thinking CPL is like a minor league to the best hockey league in the world you need your head examined. 

If your point is that MLS = AHL AND CPL = echl that sounds a lot more logical 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Keegan

[C2SKI]

23 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

once you have markets like Victoria and Halifax involved and league officials are talking about 200k and up being the target market size you can't sensibly draw parallels to the WHA, because they are going for an economic model that is inherently smaller scale than MLS, which is no bad thing.

Please explain. I'm pretty sure there are clubs from cities with smaller populations than Victoria and Halifax in all of the top 5 leagues in Europe.

[HfxCeltic]

9 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I see what you did here...?

However, how sure are you that the CSA won't change it's domestic quota requirements for the Voyageurs Cup? I sure hope they increase it to match CPL's because...

OH BOY do they look ordinary at best when they try to start more Canadians. That's not a jab against Canadian players, but if the CSA goes down that route, (which I hope to God they do), I seriously think that in the medium term, CPL develops better Canadians than the MLS Academies and they will be exposed on that front. You'd be surprised how many Americans still think that the best Canada has to offer comes from MLS Academies while we know unaffiliated academies has produced the likes of David, Davies, Larin and others.

You should be supporting that. If their CCL opportunity is threatened by a higher Canadian quota requirement in the Canadian Championship, that should motivate them to find ways to develop better quality and more Canadians. If we don't push those 3, they fall into complacency.

Anyhow, it's a damn Canadian Championship, they should try to win with more Canadians for a freaking change. Use whatever roster you want in CCL once you win.

Ooooooh, I never thought of this before. Excellent point! To be honest, I was always a little worried TFC or Montreal, or Vancouver would come to Halifax and destroy our boys, but if this happens, I like our chances a hell of a lot better and feel we can really compete with those heavily-laden young Canadian MLS squads. If this rule is put in place, TFC, Montreal, and Vancouver will likely have to field a number of young or academy players given their current senior roster make-up, while CPL squads will be fielding full strength squads with, presumably, a number of veteren Canadians.

 

 

[SpursFlu]

I think people need a better understanding of "markets" beyond checking their population on wikipedia.

[RS]

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

OH BOY do they look ordinary at best when they try to start more Canadians. That's not a jab against Canadian players, but if the CSA goes down that route, (which I hope to God they do), I seriously think that in the medium term, CPL develops better Canadians than the MLS Academies and they will be exposed on that front.

Kinda seems like it, TBH.

As great as CPL will be for Canadian development, MLS teams should still be considered the favourites in the Canadian Championship in the short and medium term as long as they have the ability to put 5 or more $1 million+ players (3 DPs plus TAM players) on the field at one time. The likes of Osorio, Chapman, Piette, Teibert, Levis, De Jong, Morgan, etc. are also probably higher calibre than most of the CPL Canadian content will be for the first few seasons.

I've personally set a pretty low bar in my head for the CPL to hit in the first few years in terms of the quality of Canadian content, because most of the best players are already spoken for and won't be coming home for (relative) peanuts. Hopefully after 5-ish years we'll see a groundswell of polished domestic talent rise up, but until then I think the CPL clubs will absolutely be relying on key international talent to raise the level of the league.

 

[Tigers]

4 hours ago, Macksam said:

That’s because the CFL involves a sport with limited appeal. If football was on the same level of popularity as hockey for example, the CFL would have had multiple teams in the GTA, along with teams in Quebec City, KW, and London by now. 

But hockey IS as popular as hockey, and doesn't have teams in those cities. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Tigers

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, RS said:

As great as CPL will be for Canadian development, MLS teams should still be considered the favourites in the Canadian Championship in the short and medium term as long as they have the ability to put 5 or more $1 million+ players (3 DPs plus TAM players) on the field at one time. The likes of Osorio, Chapman, Piette, Teibert, Levis, De Jong, Morgan, etc. are also probably higher calibre than most of the CPL Canadian content will be for the first few seasons.

If only they played those guys more often. In  year 1 sure, but in the long run, very doubtful unless they actually give more of our guys a fair shot and not put them on the eternal "Canadian short leash". We'll have guys constantly clocking minutes while theirs won't as much or they'll scramble to recall some of them from USL. 3DPs + TAM alone gives you an advantage but if out of the 6 Canadians you have to put on the pitch, 3 of them can't follow (not because of talent but lack of minutes), they are still a very beatable team.

Of course, I'm implying long term here.

[RS]

1 minute ago, Ansem said:

If only they played those guys more often. In  year 1 sure, but in the long run, very doubtful unless they actually give more of our guys a fair shot and not put them on the eternal "Canadian short leash". We'll have guys constantly clocking minutes while theirs won't as much or they'll scramble to recall some of them from USL. 3DPs + TAM alone gives you an advantage but if out of the 6 Canadians you have to put on the pitch, 3 of them can't follow (not because of talent but lack of minutes), they are still a very beatable team.

Of course, I'm implying long term here.

Eh, I don't think the narrative that Canadians are on a short leash applies universally.

First off, the three MLS teams all have different philosophies. Montreal started the year giving tons of Canadians opportunities, but it it became quickly evident that many of them weren't up to par. Yet Garde signed two more Canadian youngsters today, so he's obviously big on youth. Montreal's problem (like Vancouver's) is lack of a reserve team to "stow" the players away when they are not up to MLS level but show potential to be so.

In Vancouver, Davies is a one-off and an outlier, but I feel like Teibert has been given tons of time (years, really) to become a more rounded player, and this was probably his best year. Under Robiinson, the Whitecaps seemed to be the place where Canadian players returned home moreso than the other two teams (Henry, Edgar, De Jong, Aird) and I'd like to think dos Santos expands on that philosophy.

Osorio bounced in and out of the TFC starting XI over the past couple of years but he was definitely given ample opportunity to win his job back, and now (with Davies gone) he's the best Canadian in MLS. We've seen Morgan stick around forever, Chapman has gotten lot of leeway to grow, Hamilton has had tons of chances, Ricketts still got time despite declining a lot this year, etc.

These kinds of stories will happen in CPL as well, but on a bigger scale simply because there are 7 teams that will have higher CanCon requirements. And that's great. But there will be arguments on this forum about which CPL team is the "worst" for Canadian players as early as next year. I'm just happy that there are more opportunities for Canadian players to succeed (and fail). For me, it's never about an 'us vs. them' in terms of CPL and MLS, especially since the MLS teams have been doing it longer and will always be the most visible.

And yes, I do think that MLS' top-heavy salary structure gives them a big advantage in the V Cup for the foreseeable future. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

[Ansem]

This is beyond team speculation so I'm posting it here and will also post in Team speculation.

Alex Bunbury is behind the Montreal / Laval group. Let's just call it Laval

 

•   Claims that a team could start as soon as 2020

 

Direct translated quote:  "We are talking to investors. We will be able to assess the situation in January but it is certain that we will not be ready for the 2019 season. Many things are to be done and I do not want a rush. We have started discussions with the leaders of the CPL. The Laval complex would be a great place to play, it's pretty central and easy to get to. It will be necessary to speak with the FSQ."

Complexe de Laval

Tons of land for a Modular stadium + Indoor field for training

Location

It's close to the intersections of Highway 440 (Laval East - West) & Highway 19 (Montreal - Northern Laval)

It's a bus ride from Metro De La Concorde on the Orange line.

 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Ansem

[Alex D]

40 minutes ago, Tigers said:

But hockey IS as popular as hockey, and doesn't have teams in those cities. 

That's an NHL issue, not a demand issue. 

[Keegan]

12 minutes ago, Alex D said:

That's an NHL issue, not a demand issue. 

Bingo.  The true reality is that North American leagues like MLB, NBA, NFL and NHL have been the worst things possible for their sport.  The NHL has limited markets, which in turn skyrocket prices, they are openly hostile to competing leagues of the same sport and have all but ruined international hockey.  The NHL is bigger than the IIHF and that is a nightmare scenario that will ensure hockey remains a 3rd rate sport globally. 

All things being equal CHL should be in the pyramid and promote and relegate with a chance to make the top level.  Just imagine that and what it would mean for hockey... it’s sad.  Canada is a hockey mad country with only 7 teams.. as of this moment we have more professional soccer teams.  Imagine Germany having more pro hockey than football teams? It’s insanity. 

The GTA alone should have 3+ NHL teams. 

Guess who is running this same scenario?  MLS!  It’s the reason we have a ton of Americans supporting us.  We are literally the last hope in North America... CPL is the hip hop in a pop music landscape.  We are trying to do things right and people who can use their head see that and support it.  If we fail the Americans know they never have a hope of fixing their pyramid.. they want us (for once!) to lead the way and show up the USSF. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by Keegan

[Complete Homer]

44 minutes ago, Ansem said:

This is beyond team speculation so I'm posting it here and will also post in Team speculation.

Alex Bunbury is behind the Montreal / Laval group. Let's just call it Laval

 

 

Doesn't inspire a huge amount of confidence to link your MSN email account for interested parties

[red card]

5 hours ago, Macksam said:

That’s because the CFL involves a sport with limited appeal. If football was on the same level of popularity as hockey for example, the CFL would have had multiple teams in the GTA, along with teams in Quebec City, KW, and London by now. 

Part of the limited appeal is that there is no broader global agenda for Canadian or American football. There is no greater purpose for these leagues. No reason to watch the CFL to see potential national team players develop. No reason to see where the league ranks amongst other leagues worldwide.

They try to hype it up to be bigger than it is - especially the NFL with its world champions moniker - while we don't need to do it.

[SpursFlu]

I think if CPL was playing 9 aside, larger nets and free kicks counted as 2 it would be comparable to the CFL. Latin Americans and British people tend to like and follow American football but when they see the CFL and it's goofy rules it kinda comes across as a joke. I tend to agree with them

Edited November 16, 2018 by SpursFlu

[Tigers]

Shitting on CFL while trying to attract existing non-soccer sports fans isn't the way to go.

[dbailey62]

29 minutes ago, Tigers said:

Shitting on CFL while trying to attract existing non-soccer sports fans isn't the way to go.

I have to agree. If the CPL, in ten years, is drawing half the CFL's average attendances, we'll all be over the moon. The same can be said re it's television viewership! CFL blows MLS out of the water! 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...which isn't ending any time soon. It's not an exact analogy, but once you have markets like Victoria and Halifax involved and league officials are talking about 200k and up being the target market size you can't sensibly draw parallels to the WHA, because they are going for an economic model that is inherently smaller scale than MLS, which is no bad thing. Hopefully once it is up and running people will lose these hangups over who is D1 as the pecking order becomes obvious to all through things like Voyageurs Cup games and will just enjoy having more pro soccer teams in more cities from coast to coast.

The market for the league is CANADA. That is 30,000k. The key to success for CPL will be getting the whole country interested so that TV and sponsorship become the primary revenue streams. This is precisely where MLS has failed.

Bournemouth play in the EPL and average about 12k. I know the EPL is not a fair comparison but the point is that the league does not need huge attendances in order to be successful and to even surpass MLS salaries. Of course this will not happen in year one though. Year on year growth (of national interest) will be the key.

[Blackdude]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

 

 

 

Pretty sure that's not the stadium location. I don't know where you got it, but it's not even  on the map you've picked. It's close to des Laurentides/St-Martin which are the two main roads, but even there, it's not great for public transit like you are saying. You either take the 33 that takes you close or you take one of the 10 buses on des Laurentides/St-Martin and walk 10 minutes or so. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Complexe+Multi-Sports+De+Laval/@45.5757314,-73.7052555,17.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x43eca4bd8247c96d:0x26214fd439f38ec6!8m2!3d45.5740344!4d-73.7035625

[Ansem]

26 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Pretty sure that's not the stadium location. I don't know where you got it, but it's not even  on the map you've picked. It's close to des Laurentides/St-Martin which are the two main roads, but even there, it's not great for public transit like you are saying. You either take the 33 that takes you close or you take one of the 10 buses on des Laurentides/St-Martin and walk 10 minutes or so. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Complexe+Multi-Sports+De+Laval/@45.5757314,-73.7052555,17.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x43eca4bd8247c96d:0x26214fd439f38ec6!8m2!3d45.5740344!4d-73.7035625

You're right. My bad...Easy acces for car regardless as people relies way more on cars there than in Montreal.

Hoping for shuttles from Metro Concorde

I'll edit the post later

Edited November 16, 2018 by Ansem

[dyslexic nam]

3 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Doesn't inspire a huge amount of confidence to link your MSN email account for interested parties

"Interested parties should check out my MySpace page."