CNL Play-In for Copa America: Canada vs Trinidad & Tobago - Saturday, March 23, 2024 - Frisco (greater Dallas), Texas

[SpursFlu]

We're acting like we're the first team to lose a football match. We were complaining that we had to beat one junk team after another for so long. Now we're in a position where we play only competitive games. We're in a disappointing position for sure but people are definitely over reacting. I'm fine with that because at least people are engaged. It feels a little far off to get too wrapped up in it now but we'll have a monster all in game come March. We'll all be on the edge of our seats and nervous as hell.

Edited November 23, 2023 by SpursFlu

[costarg]

56 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

We’re emotional but it’s really not. We made the final of the nations league just 5 months ago. Most of the negativity is unfounded or irrelevant. We’ve been eliminated in our last two tournaments by away goals and penalties. Close as it gets. 
 

Football happened to us. Now we regroup and attack next summer. 

Results have not been terrible if we remove some disappointing draws, Cuba scoring on us twice and losing to Jamaica, when we consider lots of people on here thought it'd be a walk in the park.

However the last game vs Jamaica is the only match we actually looked good since qualifying for the WC.  We were playing some very ugly disjointed soccer the past 18 months.

[CanadaFan123]

5 minutes ago, costarg said:

Results have not been terrible if we remove some disappointing draws, Cuba scoring on us twice and losing to Jamaica, when we consider lots of people on here thought it'd be a walk in the park.

However the last game vs Jamaica is the only match we actually looked good since qualifying for the WC.  We were playing some very ugly disjointed soccer the past 18 months.

That’s not true. Qatar, Japan (2022), Curacao x2, Honduras were all good performances to include since qualifying. Also, Belgium World Cup opener - you can’t say we didn’t look good. Can’t say we didn’t have some good moments in the other two matches too.

Panama nations league semi too… 

Think we’re just wanting to focus on the bad a little too much. It’s actually easier to list matches we haven’t looked good in since qualifying. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by CanadaFan123

[Canuckia]

I totally get the frustration. Obviously, we would all like to be playing in the NL semis, but that's spilled milk. The Frisco match is crucial to give us an opportunity for some shining moments on a big stage. it is great that expectations are high though.

[Obinna]

25 minutes ago, costarg said:

Results have not been terrible if we remove some disappointing draws, Cuba scoring on us twice and losing to Jamaica, when we consider lots of people on here thought it'd be a walk in the park.

However the last game vs Jamaica is the only match we actually looked good since qualifying for the WC.  We were playing some very ugly disjointed soccer the past 18 months.

We also aren't playing enough soccer and that's partly why things have been ugly and disjointed at times. Like I said in the match thread, NOT playing in the group stage in Nations League hurt us. Jamaica had 4 competitive games in fall, we had 1 friendly. No wonder we lacked that killer instinct to put them away in the second leg. 

We couldn't control the format, but we can control how many friendlies we play. Friendlies wouldn't have made up the gap entirely, since you can only sharpen your blade so much, but had we played 4 friendlies instead of one maybe we are more clinical over this tie and maybe we don't put ourself in the position to lose the whole tie in a single half.  

Edited November 23, 2023 by Obinna

[narduch]

Because Concacaf scheduled this game on a Saturday, we probably won't even be able to get 2 matches out of this window.

A friendly on the Tuesday would feel a bit anti climatic. Unless you could line up a decent opponent. 

[JBR]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

Because Concacaf scheduled this game on a Saturday, we probably won't even be able to get 2 matches out of this window.

A friendly on the Tuesday would feel a bit anti climatic. Unless you could line up a decent opponent. 

Costa Rica or Honduras?

[Canuckia]

7 minutes ago, JBR said:

Costa Rica or Honduras?

That makes the most sense.

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, JBR said:

Costa Rica or Honduras?

Sure. But that makes more sense as a closed door friendly on the Wednesday before the game v T&T where your starters don't play a full 90.

As mentioned above

Edited November 23, 2023 by narduch

[johnyb]

20 hours ago, Obinna said:

Not for me it isn't. 

For me this was 51 Copa / 49 NL.

We want to be 3rd best in this region? We need to compete for Silverware in our region EVERY tournament. That means getting to finals or semi finals, not crashing out at the QF for Gold Cup AND Nations League (back-to-back now btw).

Copa America is a special and unique opportunity, hence the 51%, but at least we have the backdoor route. Had we pulled through, I think 51% of my joy would have been about Copa and 49% would have been about NL.

The March qualifier will be massive of course, but part of me is going to look at Jamaica with envy. They've booked their ticket AND now have a claim to be a top-4 concacaf side. Canada? At best we book our ticket to Copa, that's it. 

We may have the so-called best player in the region, maybe the best forward, and probably one of the top 3 midfielders, but nobody can say we are 3rd strongest in the region right now:

1. USA
2. Mexico
3. Panama
4. Jamaica
5. Canada (at best)
6. Costa Rica
7. Honduras
8. El Salvador/Guatemala/T&T/Haiti (one of those teams)

IF we get to Copa (big IF) and IF we progress further than Panama and Jamaica, I think the door opens back up, but for now it's firmly shut and we are no better than 5th.

We can't live in the past, that's a loser mentality, and the Ocho was 2021/2022 and we soon will be in 2024. You're only as good as your last game. 

I'm more 75% Copa, 25% NL. There will be many more NL's in which we play the same competition we always play, but may be our only Copa. Also Canada 5th at best?! C'mon, fresh wound I get it, but I bet you had them top 3 48 Hours ago. Does one game really change our team that much?

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

We're acting like we're the first team to lose a football match. We were complaining that we had to beat one junk team after another for so long. Now we're in a position where we play only competitive games. We're in a disappointing position for sure but people are definitely over reacting. I'm fine with that because at least people are engaged. It feels a little far off to get too wrapped up in it now but we'll have a monster all in game come March. We'll all be on the edge of our seats and nervous as hell.

For me it wasn’t just about the loss - it was how we lost.  We were up 3-1 in aggregate after our first goal and playing in “fortress BMO”.  Then we completely lost our focus and gave it away.  We should have been able to manage the game from that point on but it seems like we haven’t learned how to do that   Not (largely) under Herdman and (less surprisingly) not under Biello.  If we had lost in Kingston and ended up not making up the ground it would have been easier to accept than being firmly in control of the tie and then blowing it.     

Plus I flew to Toronto specifically to see us win…

[InglewoodJack]

I don’t know if this is just coping, but one way to look at this is that the T&T game next year is going to usher in the next era of the NT that will last until the 2026 World Cup. I’d like to consider the Jamaica loss as the last game of the (extended) Herdman era. It collapsed, it’s over, now we have 4 months until the next game. With a new coach, hopefully a few new players on the team, a win in a very important game is a great way to leave the last few years in the rear view mirror.

Even though we’ve played some really big games over the last few years, the 2024-2026 era is going to be the most important era in the history of our program. In the next 2.5 years after that T&T game, we’ve got a Copa America, a Gold Cup, and a World Cup and I guess two (?) more Nations Leagues. That’s a lot of soccer to play and a lot of very big games. You dismantle T&T in March, head in to Copa with the same confidence we had going into the World Cup, maybe we rattle off a couple results and the team starts believing in themselves again.

There’s plenty of time for things to go wrong, but I guess what’s done is done, and now we have the opportunity for a complete refresh. All depends on what we do with the new coach though.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

That’s not true. Qatar, Japan (2022), Curacao x2, Honduras were all good performances to include since qualifying. Also, Belgium World Cup opener - you can’t say we didn’t look good. Can’t say we didn’t have some good moments in the other two matches too.

Panama nations league semi too… 

Yes, those moments being a couple of class finishes but they played us really tough (as always) and, among other things, made Buchanan a frustrated (and frustrating to watch) non factor out there .  Then we were a clear level below the US in the final.

We've had moments, agreed, but a lot more warning signs, too.

[Watchmen]

9 hours ago, kacbru said:

I would argue the Africa Cup of Nations is ahead of it.

Good tournament, for sure. I think a better mix of teams that could win it each time. I think it's below the Copa but well ahead of the Asian Cup or Gold Cup.

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, johnyb said:

I'm more 75% Copa, 25% NL. There will be many more NL's in which we play the same competition we always play, but may be our only Copa. Also Canada 5th at best?! C'mon, fresh wound I get it, but I bet you had them top 3 48 Hours ago. Does one game really change our team that much?

I mean, yes and no. 

I am less emotional now than when I wrote that, so let me start breaking it down some facts and let's see where it goes:

Since 2019...

Canada 

1 x World Cup participant

1 x Gold Cup Semi-Finalist

2 x Gold Cup Quarter-Finalist

1 x Nations League Finalist (2nd) 

• 2019 QF Gold Cup
• 2021 SF Gold Cup
• 2022 World Cup participants
• 2023 2nd Nations League
• 2023 QF Gold Cup

Costa Rica

1 x World Cup participant

3 x Gold Cup Quarter-Finalist

1 x Nations League Semi-Finalist (4th)

• 2019 QF Gold Cup
• 2019 4th Nations League
• 2021 QF Gold Cup
• 2022 World Cup participants
• 2023 QF Gold Cup

Panama

1 x Gold Cup Finalist (2nd)

2 x Nations League Semi-Finalist (4th) + unknown

1 x Gold Cup Quarter-Finalist

• 2019 QF Gold Cup
• 2022 World Cup DNP
• 2023 4th Nations League
• 2023 2nd Gold Cup
• *2024 SF Nations League

Jamaica 

2 x Gold Cup Semi-Finalist

1 x Gold Cup Quarter-Finalist 

1 x Nations League Semi-Finalist (unknown)

• 2019 SF Gold Cup
• 2021 QF Gold Cup
• 2022 World Cup DNP
• 2023 Gold Cup SF
• *2024 SF Nations League

 

Now.....looking at things this way definitely helps me feel better....so there's that first of all.

I guess how each of us interprets these objective facts will be somewhat subjective, but for me participating in the World Cup, regardless of how you do, is the biggest achievement. I know that just yesterday @Watchmen and I were having a NL/GC/Copa debate where I made the point that advancing in "bigger" tournaments is a lesser achievement than "winning" smaller trophies, so it may seem like I am doing a 180 here, but it's the World Cup and for a region like CONCACAF which only sends 3 or 4 teams, showing your face at the World Cup really does matter and I believe it is how the rest of the world measures who the strong teams in our small region are.

Okay so that puts Canada and Costa Rica on top of Panama and Jamaica. 

Then we can say with confidence that Canada is ahead of Costa Rica due to better Gold Cup and Nations League performances.

With Panama (here is where it is subjective perhaps) I will give our GC participations a draw. They made it to a finals, but they crashed out of a group. However, they now edge us in NL and if they get to a finals it's more than an edge. So, I think our WC participation for now still keeps us ahead of them if we consider the last 4 years. There is also the WC decay factor to consider here to, so we can only hang our hat on this for so long. Ditto for CR. 

Jamaica have performed better than us in the last 3 Gold Cups and it's not really arguable. So far we've done better in Nations League, but if they reach the finals they match us and arguably trump us, since they'll have to go through the defending champions USA to get there. 

In summary, I would say that IF we are still considered 3rd in this region, based on the results over the last four years, then we are just barely hanging on to this status. If Jamaica or Panama has a good Nations League AND we fail to make the Copa America, I don't really think there's a debate anymore here.

On the other hand, IF we make it AND do better than both Panama and Jamaica, I think we hang on to this 3rd place status, but damn we really missed a chance to widen the gap with that loss against Jamaica on Tuesday.

As for Costa Rica, I guess they could have a say if they get to Copa themselves and go on a run and we know that's possible with them.    

Didn't bother looking at Honduras here......because Honduras no bueno. No other analysis required

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

The T&T perspective:

https://newsday.co.tt/2023/11/23/eve-soca-warriors-welcome-copa-america-playoff-vs-canada-2/

 

[Shway]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

The T&T perspective:

https://newsday.co.tt/2023/11/23/eve-soca-warriors-welcome-copa-america-playoff-vs-canada-2/

 

and this is why I'm nervous about playing them....nothing to lose, and everything to gain. 
It's damned if they don't and mas if they do. 

For us, we're fucked as a program if we don't. 

But I will say I feel like how I did against Suriname in 21".

Edited November 24, 2023 by Shway

[MtlMario]

I know it's still 4 months away and we do not know what players or coach we'll have but before I SCRAP this present crystal ball for a new and improved model the prediction is " Canada 4 - T&T 1. 😊 

P.S. Maybe I'll keep this model as a spare in case this prediction is right.😁

Edited November 27, 2023 by MtlMario

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Over the course of two months (February and March) T & T had the opportunity to completely plunge our Men's program into crisis.

- Tuesday, February 27th (U20s)

- Saturday, March 23rd (senior)

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

crystal ball

My crystal ball for this match will likely be far more pessimistic if we fail at the U20s. The two aren't the same player pool but it will be a superstitious feeling of doom.

🔮 

[InglewoodJack]

I somewhat casually follow the German national team, just because I’ve spent time there and watched most of the 2018 World Cup while living in Berlin, and when I want a bit of perspective about our national team, I look at them. We crushed World Cup qualification and have been sliding since. These guys went from winning a World Cup to being terrible. We both can’t beat Japan. I have more faith in their ability to turn it around than ours, but there’s a team with 10x the talent pool, 10x the expectations, and relatively similar results to ours. Losses against Poland, Colombia, Japan, wins against France (nice), the US, draws Mexico, loses against Turkey and Austria. Minus the away win against the US, which we could still probably pull off on a good day, and that win against France, I think our squad rattles off the exact same record. 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

T & T's coach Angus Eve is extended until March.

https://www.sportsmax.tv/football/regional/item/135356-eve-receives-contract-extension-to-lead-soca-warriors-in-march-faces-uncertain-future-after

They now have some administrative stability going into that match.

[JamboAl]

Will have news on tickets for this game in January.  Canada Soccer has already made enquiries for this game and Copa America.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Game will be at 4pm Eastern.

3pm Central (and local)

Better to be playing first and not waiting around for the Costa Rica vs Honduras match I think.

Anybody wish we had the late game instead?

 

 

 

[JamboAl]

I’ll probably stay for the 2nd game as well.  Anything to cheer against Honduras.

[Canuckia]

Does everybody have their dollar store Canada cowboy hats? 🤣