Zac McGraw

[sebdeserio]

33 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I dont think its racist to acknowledge where players were born. Lemar, Umtiti, Mandanda were born outside france. Griezman was developed by real sociedad. Add in the 2 hernandez brothers and theres 6 examples since 2010ish. France is the deepest nation in the world by far and if they are taking on guys who are not fully french, theres zero chance canada can.  
I would say its more racist to exclude Canadians from a canadian team than it is to say that a french player is french even though they were born outside of france. 
 

Lemar is born in France just like anybody born on the mainland is.

Edited June 2, 2023 by sebdeserio

[Bigandy]

16 minutes ago, sebdeserio said:

Lemar is born in France just like anybody born on the mainland is.

I didnt realize guadeloupe wasnt considered independent. However, I would imagine that pasta would view a player born in guadeloupe should play for guadeloupe and a french mainlander for the french national team. I would imagine its very similar to netherlands and curacao/suriname. 

[matthew]

3 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

So if ZBG and McGraw were both starting for us, who gets to be called what?

Zachary & Zac?

There's probably a good chance neither one of them are even called by their first names. I remember being at training and realizing there were two 'Rusty's. Which I'm sure made sense to the group, but confused me.

[Kent]

It's been mentioned already, but the problem is defining what being "developed" is and how to determine where that development happened. What is the minimum standard to qualify for playing for a country? Is it living in that country for 1 year? Does it matter if you played soccer in that one year? For example, living in that country when you were 12 and signed up for a league, or living there from birth or from ages 1 to 2 when you are too young to play? What if you were 12 but you didn't play soccer at all that year? Or you played on the school ground during recess, but not in an organized league? What if it was only 6 months instead of a year? How about if you just spent the summer with your aunt and uncle but played soccer? If that's OK, how about a week long vacation? Or a weekend soccer tournament that you competed in? There are an infinite number of ways you could draw the line. For me it's way too stressful and ultimately pointless* to try to define what is and isn't OK. It's FIFA's job to determine the rules, so I just let them determine the rules and try not to stress out about it.

*I said it's pointless because we don't get to set the rules, so it's all just fantasy stuff anyways. That being said, I have my own pet gripes and I reserve the right to complain about VAR every chance I get. So I understand where Pasta is coming from.

[Kent]

3 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

So if ZBG and McGraw were both starting for us, who gets to be called what?

Zachary & Zac?

I hadn't pieced this together before. So now we have ZBG and ZMG!

[Big_M]

Title should be changed to Zachery McGraw

[Pasta88]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I dont think its racist to acknowledge where players were born. Lemar, Umtiti, Mandanda were born outside france. Griezman was developed by real sociedad. Add in the 2 hernandez brothers and theres 6 examples since 2010ish. France is the deepest nation in the world by far and if they are taking on guys who are not fully french, theres zero chance canada can.  
I would say its more racist to exclude Canadians from a canadian team than it is to say that a french player is french even though they were born outside of france. 
 

As was mentioned later, Lemar was born in France. Umtiti and Mandada both moved to France at age 2. They’re both French and especially French from a footballing perspective. Griezmann moved to Spain at age 14. He’s a product of both France and Spain so I wouldn’t see the issue with him representing either.

I don’t really get what France has to do with Canada anyway, but it’s completely disingenuous to act like the French national team is anything but a complete representation of French football.

[frmr]

17 minutes ago, Pasta88 said:

As was mentioned later, Lemar was born in France. Umtiti and Mandada both moved to France at age 2. They’re both French and especially French from a footballing perspective. Griezmann moved to Spain at age 14. He’s a product of both France and Spain so I wouldn’t see the issue with him representing either.

I don’t really get what France has to do with Canada anyway, but it’s completely disingenuous to act like the French national team is anything but a complete representation of French football.

Well they're both countries, playing the same game, under the same set of rules—for starters. Not sure how they wouldn't have a whole lot to do with each other in this context. The only thing disingenuous is that that you're still maintaining that your posts include anything other than completely arbitrary statements. There's absolutely nothing that makes someone objectively more Canadian if they were born in another country to foreign parents, but played football in Canada; than someone who was born in Canada to Canadian parents, but played their whole life in another country. To suggest that something as abstract as identity is anything other than subjective is foolish at best and disingenuous (to use your word) at worst. To be honest, I think it comes across as kind of wank that you wouldn't want a talented player to suit up for us because you don't think they're "Canadian enough", even though they are abiding by an international rule-set that every other country also follows. But if you want to spend your time on your soap-box telling people how you feel about it, then I guess go for it.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

Well they're both countries, playing the same game, under the same set of rules—for starters. Not sure how they wouldn't have a whole lot to do with each other in this context. The only thing disingenuous is that that you're still maintaining that your posts include anything other than completely arbitrary statements. There's absolutely nothing that makes someone objectively more Canadian if they were born in another country to foreign parents, but played football in Canada; than someone who was born in Canada to Canadian parents, but played their whole life in another country. To suggest that something as abstract as identity is anything other than subjective is foolish at best and disingenuous (to use your word) at worst. To be honest, I think it comes across as kind of wank that you wouldn't want a talented player to suit up for us because you don't think they're "Canadian enough", even though they are abiding by an international rule-set that every other country also follows. But if you want to spend your time on your soap-box telling people how you feel about it, then I guess go for it.

Wow. A much better articulation of how i feel. 

The subjectiveness of nationality needs a line drawn somewhere. Fifa does that with eligibility criteria. I dont understand why someone would think they know more than fifa about where the line should be drawn and have a better understanding of each single persons "canadianess". 

[grigorio]

9 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

So if ZBG and McGraw were both starting for us, who gets to be called what?

Zachary & Zac?

Easy. We got ZBG and ZMG.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 hour ago, grigorio said:

Easy. We got ZBG and ZMG.

Yes, but what about amongst the players themselves?

[Pasta88]

11 hours ago, frmr said:

Well they're both countries, playing the same game, under the same set of rules—for starters. Not sure how they wouldn't have a whole lot to do with each other in this context. The only thing disingenuous is that that you're still maintaining that your posts include anything other than completely arbitrary statements. There's absolutely nothing that makes someone objectively more Canadian if they were born in another country to foreign parents, but played football in Canada; than someone who was born in Canada to Canadian parents, but played their whole life in another country. To suggest that something as abstract as identity is anything other than subjective is foolish at best and disingenuous (to use your word) at worst. To be honest, I think it comes across as kind of wank that you wouldn't want a talented player to suit up for us because you don't think they're "Canadian enough", even though they are abiding by an international rule-set that every other country also follows. But if you want to spend your time on your soap-box telling people how you feel about it, then I guess go for it.

Once again I’m not assessing who is more Canadian, or Canadian enough, outside of the footballing context. In your example, both are equally Canadian (again, I was never debating this), but when you look through the footballing lens, the former is a product of Canadian soccer while the latter is a product of another country’s system. That is a massive difference whether you care about it or not. 

I don’t even see why it is even controversial to want to field a team that closely represents grassroots soccer development in the country as much as possible. It’s more special watching Davies score in the World Cup knowing he grew up playing in Edmonton and Vancouver and beat the odds to become a regular for Bayern. Less so if he had have lived his entire life playing in Munich as the son of one Canadian parent.

Yes a handful of foreign raised players is not the end of the world, but I shudder at the thought of our program becoming like our neighbours to the south where fans go on about “recruiting” and the manager names starting 11s where half the players grew up playing soccer abroad. There is club soccer for that imo.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 hours ago, Pasta88 said:

Once again I’m not assessing who is more Canadian, or Canadian enough, outside of the footballing context. In your example, both are equally Canadian (again, I was never debating this), but when you look through the footballing lens, the former is a product of Canadian soccer while the latter is a product of another country’s system. That is a massive difference whether you care about it or not. 

I don’t even see why it is even controversial to want to field a team that closely represents grassroots soccer development in the country as much as possible. It’s more special watching Davies score in the World Cup knowing he grew up playing in Edmonton and Vancouver and beat the odds to become a regular for Bayern. Less so if he had have lived his entire life playing in Munich as the son of one Canadian parent.

Yes a handful of foreign raised players is not the end of the world, but I shudder at the thought of our program becoming like our neighbours to the south where fans go on about “recruiting” and the manager names starting 11s where half the players grew up playing soccer abroad. There is club soccer for that imo.

Do you believe that denying a goal scoring opportunity is not a red card and that you can pass the ball back to your keeper?

Both of the rules saying different are relatively recent (within my lifetime) and therefore following them makes a game outside the spirit of soccer...somehow?

The rules governing who is eligible to play for a nation are also new.  But those are the rules that every nation is subject to.

The last Euros, which I was very intimate with as England was in the final, was won in part by Emerson, who played for his hometown Brazilian club into his 20s.  I am familiar with  him because of my club side but there was also Jorginho and another I can't remember the name of, who were born in Brazil. 

One of the great football nations in the world and they played by the rules as written to be successful.

(Another maybe more dramatic example, which I am sure has been mentioned is Morroco at this recent World Cup.  They captured a lot of attention and imagination while having few players who grew up in their football system.)

To make nations conform to standards that no longer exists would just solidify, even more, the power structure in international football.  If you are a emerging nation like Morroco or another African nation or us  hopefully, you are not yet going to have a elite grassroots system and won't be doing doing anything of note at the dance for the foreseeable future.

[Sal333]

16 hours ago, Pasta88 said:

As was mentioned later, Lemar was born in France. Umtiti and Mandada both moved to France at age 2. They’re both French and especially French from a footballing perspective. Griezmann moved to Spain at age 14. He’s a product of both France and Spain so I wouldn’t see the issue with him representing either.

I don’t really get what France has to do with Canada anyway, but it’s completely disingenuous to act like the French national team is anything but a complete representation of French football.

As a sidebar, A while ago I saw a documentary that showed France exported the most World Cup players to other countries. So this misconception that France steals players from other continents is the exact opposite of reality. The documentary showed that more French born players participated in the last couple of WCs than from any other nation. Seeing as all nations are allowed the same amount of players the only way for that to happen is if players born and trained in France went and chose to represent some other country. Morocco is one example. There are numerous others. If I can track down the video I'll post it here.

 

Found it:

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Sal333

[blueseeka]

Lookong forward to actually watching McGraw today. Game is free on Fox at 4:30 EST

[Macksam]

22 hours ago, Aird25 said:

That's a dangerous game. I imagine there are many non French/English family names of European and non-European origin that are significantly more common than Brault or Guillard. Many of which have been in Canada for many generations

Is something Jack said putting his life in danger?

23 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think you would be foolish not to accept the best players within the current guidelines. Mostly because everyone else will be doing it. And the way people move around now, it's just the way it's going to be. I think its natural but people show their bias.. its cool when it's this type of name or that type of name but when it's Zac McGrath who played College Soccer with the US Army (lol, you really can't make that up) it's not so cool

It's kinda cool lulz.

[costarg]

Hold on, so that's two 6'4" CB's that just showed up in the past few months (The Bomb) being the other one.  This looks and sounds a lot like my letter to Santa in December. 

Not saying I'm solely responsible for this, but sure seems like it. 

Christmas in June!

 

 

[narduch]

5 hours ago, blueseeka said:

Lookong forward to actually watching McGraw today. Game is free on Fox at 4:30 EST

Should note these games on Fox end up starting 20 minutes after the listed time

[VinceA]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Hold on, so that's two 6'4" CB's that just showed up in the past few months (The Bomb) being the other one.  This looks and sounds a lot like my letter to Santa in December. 

Not saying I'm solely responsible for this, but sure seems like it. 

Christmas in June!

 

 

My Christmas list was the same.

 

"Santa, please I need some big bois to do the soccer"

[narduch]

Starting v Seattle. 

As mentioned above it's on Fox and Apple TV

[Floortom]

Has looked quite good today. Easily good enough to contribute to the squad and at times would be in our starting XI

[SoccMan]

On 6/3/2023 at 4:25 AM, Pasta88 said:

Once again I’m not assessing who is more Canadian, or Canadian enough, outside of the footballing context. In your example, both are equally Canadian (again, I was never debating this), but when you look through the footballing lens, the former is a product of Canadian soccer while the latter is a product of another country’s system. That is a massive difference whether you care about it or not. 

I don’t even see why it is even controversial to want to field a team that closely represents grassroots soccer development in the country as much as possible. It’s more special watching Davies score in the World Cup knowing he grew up playing in Edmonton and Vancouver and beat the odds to become a regular for Bayern. Less so if he had have lived his entire life playing in Munich as the son of one Canadian parent.

Yes a handful of foreign raised players is not the end of the world, but I shudder at the thought of our program becoming like our neighbours to the south where fans go on about “recruiting” and the manager names starting 11s where half the players grew up playing soccer abroad. There is club soccer for that imo.

Totally agree with this , however , with the current rules in terms of international eligibility of course I’m  still going to take a much more talented player who’s only connection to Canada was a grandparent who happen to spend 5 minutes in Canada over a less talented player who grew up playing the sport mainly here in Canada . However, I tend to root more for a player who basically learned the game growing up and playing most of their youth soccer in Canada , but the rules being what they are I’m always going to take the best players available regardless if they never set foot in Canada , other countries are doing it and we have to do it too if it’s going to give us a competitive edge .

[blueseeka]

Can we just stop quoting him so we can focus on McGraw instead.

 

Hoping he is on the Gold Cup roster as we attempt to rebuild the CB with more talented young, taller players. Be interesting to see if the rank him higher than Waterman, McNaughton, Henry and Hiebert

[Dominic94]

1 minute ago, blueseeka said:

Can we just stop quoting him so we can focus on McGraw instead.

 

Hoping he is on the Gold Cup roster as we attempt to rebuild the CB with more talented young, taller players. Be interesting to see if the rank him higher than Waterman, McNaughton, Henry and Hiebert

If he’s truly best XI caliber, and if what they’re saying is true he may walk into our lineup and be better than all of our current CB’s.

 

he is surely ahead of McNaughtom and Henry.

[blueseeka]

16 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

If he’s truly best XI caliber, and if what they’re saying is true he may walk into our lineup and be better than all of our current CB’s.

 

he is surely ahead of McNaughtom and Henry.

Lol...we definitely rank him ahead of Henry but does Herdman.

Edited June 4, 2023 by blueseeka