The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[sose]

2 minutes ago, Califax said:

I mean I know the players have to get something but part of me wants it all go towards development.

I find myself struggling to care if the players Who make millions get any of the $10 million split

We are still so far behind. 

do you work for free? 

[ag futbol]

2 minutes ago, ddoouugg said:

voyageur's cup

Which would only speak to a shocking lack of ability to prioritize. If you can head off what happened today by getting to Vancouver earlier, you do it. 
 

But this is all just hot bullshit from Bontis. They can only negotiate when EVERYONE is in the same room? Nobody can start negotiations earlier or get the ball rolling for 3 fucking months? 
 

Seems to me, he thought he could just deflect, skate in at the 11th hour and force the players to accept. The players called his bluff.

[Sal333]

2 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

I'm not against the players taking action, I'm against the players cancelling a game 2 hours before kickoff costing fans hundreds of dollars on travel expenses. They would have achieved the same if they had pulled the plug on Thursday or Friday.

Actually that tells me the players were willing to listen and give the CSA all the chances in the world to settle the dispute. Anyway, Bontis only arrived on Friday or was it Saturday.

[Diego]

8 minutes ago, RJB said:

What's interesting in all this is that people who are against the players seem to be missing how much they've accomplished with this.

While this is absolutely a good point and true, there's another side to it. 

The good will of fans was tested and people in Vancouver will probably be more hesitant to purchase tickets to a future match. Being that selling out games is a brand new thing for us, this matters. 

But even more importantly what federation on Earth is going to want to set up a friendly with us now? And we thought we had troubles with this before?! We fucked over 2 federations in the span of a couple weeks. 

This debacle will surely make national news and get eyes in the places players want them. But it'll also make some international football news and that is not good for us at all. 

[canuckgbp]

 

[Diego]

1 minute ago, canuckgbp said:

 

Makes me so annoyed that this obvious question was not asked at the presser. 

Those questions were almost uniformly terrible. 

[Wingback6]

11 minutes ago, PastPros said:

1000%

They rolled the dice. They won big. They deserve to benefit.

No they absolutely do fucking not. I am shocked that the contract was allowed to be signed without apparently any sort of over sight from say, oh I don't know, the minister of sport? Contracts are declared null and void all of the damn time. To all of you who think this matter is done.

And you. Are you are saying it is appropriate for our national program to be a revenue stream for private enterprise? 

 

[Sal333]

3 minutes ago, canuckgbp said:

 

Bingo! Something tells me Bontis is Amber Turd's lost brother.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Sal333

[BearcatSA]

5 minutes ago, sose said:

do you work for free? 

That reminds me a little of that great Larry David piece:

 

[The Real Marc]

13 minutes ago, sose said:

do you work for free? 

This is a silly question. Any adult understands that, yes, you often do have to work for free - depending on the request, the requestor, and the context.

But even taking this silliness at face value, the players work for pro clubs that pay them.

The players represent the country at the pleasure of the coach that selects them.

They should receive some compensation to make up for their time, risk, and opportunity cost - which they already do.

They may deserve more, but this is not their work.

Edited June 6, 2022 by The Real Marc

[SoCalTransport]

Bontis will resign next week. You heard it here first 🤩

[ag futbol]

2 minutes ago, Wingback6 said:

No they absolutely do fucking not. I am shocked that the contract was allowed to be signed without apparently any sort of over sight from say, oh I don't know, the minister of sport? Contracts are declared null and void all of the damn time. To all of you who think this matter is done.

And you. Are you are saying it is appropriate for our national program to be a revenue stream for private enterprise? 

 

Absolutely. 
 

At face value, we have a once-in-a-lifetime bump up in revenues and an association that says it’s too poor to give the players any sort of increase, seems to suggest that maybe those terms are, um, not making the CSA the winner of this CSN contract

 

[JohnnyFranchise]

8 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Actually that tells me the players were willing to listen and give the CSA all the chances in the world to settle the dispute. Anyway, Bontis only arrived on Friday or was it Saturday.

It tells me the players don't give a sh*t about the fans. Or are they going to negotiate for those fans to be compensated for their lost travel expenses? Didn't think so.

[BigMo]

16 minutes ago, RJB said:

What's interesting in all this is that people who are against the players seem to be missing how much they've accomplished with this.

People.are asking questions about CSB, (I had never heard of them at all thanks to very little reporting), people are grilling the CSA, and the media is going to start poking holes (expectedly) in the operations at the CSA.

Seeing Bontis be so adversarial in the presser and to hear some of the things being said will only draw the attention further on this .

Rick Westhead is on it now which doesn't bode well for whichever side is in the wrong. Plus I'm sure there will beany others that will pick up the story 

Mission accomplished by the players. 

(Side note, Bontis said they weren't in same city until yesterday... Why not!!??)

 

His defensiveness is because he is accustomed to operating with little to no scrutiny, aside from the tiny corner of hardcore NT supporters gathered here.

For once they had to answer questions to outlets that aren't dependant on them for their survival/access and it went terribly.

[The Real Marc]

1 minute ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

It tells me the players don't give a sh*t about the fans. Or are they going to negotiate for those fans to be compensated for their lost travel expenses? Didn't think so.

I know it's a small portion of the gripe, but the idea of the players complaining about lack of personal tickets to matches and then cancelling a match on fans was neither a consistent nor advisable course of action.

[ag futbol]

2 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

This is a silly question. Any adult understand that, yes, you often do have to work for free - depending on the request, the requestor, and then context.

But even taking this silliness at face value, the players work for pro clubs that pay them.

The plays represent the country at the pleasure of the coach that selects them. They should receive some compensation to make up for their lost opportunity at their clubs, but this is not their work.

Its a business sold as patriotism to those not paying attention.

Hate to say it but best to accept it

[ensco]

TFC went through years of this in the Peddie/Anselmi era, and years later when all the players retired and could talk, and the memoirs came out, and you could figure out what had happened… it was clear that management had lied, repeatedly, while players told the truth.

But you didn’t know for sure until 5 years after the fact.

[Soro17]

8 minutes ago, Wingback6 said:

No they absolutely do fucking not. I am shocked that the contract was allowed to be signed without apparently any sort of over sight from say, oh I don't know, the minister of sport? Contracts are declared null and void all of the damn time. To all of you who think this matter is done.

And you. Are you are saying it is appropriate for our national program to be a revenue stream for private enterprise? 

 

Contracts are not declared null and void all the time. It is very rare. Especially when both parties are sophisticated (laugh if you want, but the CSA is a sophisticated party) and represented by counsel, which assuredly was the case here. 

 

 

[The Real Marc]

Just now, ag futbol said:

Its a business sold as patriotism to those not paying attention.

Hate to say it but best to accept it

You mistake the point. It's not about patriotism. It's about leverage and relationships which differ vastly between paid pro club work and national team service.

[Califax]

17 minutes ago, sose said:

do you work for free? 

Do I make significantly less doing the same work at two places? 
 

yeah. 

[aslemko]

Just now, Soro17 said:

Contracts are not declared null and void all the time. It is very rare. Especially when both parties are sophisticated (laugh if you want, but the CSA is a sophisticated party) and represented by counsel, which assuredly was the case here. 

 

 

You have zero clue as to what the terms of the agreement are pertaining to termination or otherwise. There are an infinite number of possibilities as to what might be in it. The CSA which i is a government funded organization has hidden the terms. 

[Sal333]

6 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

This is a silly question. Any adult understands that, yes, you often do have to work for free - depending on the request, the requestor, and the context.

But even taking this silliness at face value, the players work for pro clubs that pay them.

The plays represent the country at the pleasure of the coach that selects them. They should receive some compensation to make up for their time, risk, and opportunity cost - which they already do. They may deserve more, but this is not their work.

I don't what you do for a living but let's say you're a plumber. Would it be okay for me to ask you to go plumb some pipes for your country. We'll give you some compensation and oh you gotta stay there for awhile and you don't get to bring your family. And a corporation will get rich from your loyal service to your country.

I'd bet you'd be the first to bitch and whine. People who volunteer other people's time and labour usually are.

[ensco]

Two points on the contract

1) I think any contract signed by a not for profit that receives significant government funding is VERY different than a normal commercial contract, in terms of the reasonable level of disclosure/scrutiny  that is appropriate.

2) Any contract that hid material elements can and will be undone by courts. The players are coming thisclose to accusing Bontis and the CSA of corrupt dealings on that contract. If there is corruption, this will not just “stand” because “a deal is a deal”, regardless of the terms of the contract.

Edited June 6, 2022 by ensco

[Soro17]

5 minutes ago, aslemko said:

You have zero clue as to what the terms of the agreement are pertaining to termination or otherwise. There are an infinite number of possibilities as to what might be in it. The CSA which i is a government funded organization has hidden the terms. 

Having negotiated many contracts, I have a pretty good idea. Termination for breach, non-performance, fine. Null and void is something else all together. A court would hesitate to find in a case like this that an agreement is a nullity. There is also likely a severability provision which would say that, even if a court finds a provision is unenforceable, only that provision gets severed and everything else remains in effect. 
 

At the end of the day, if the CSA wants out, it will have to pay to have the deal terminated. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Soro17

[CanadaSantos]

9 minutes ago, ensco said:

TFC went through years of this in the Peddie/Anselmi era, and years later when all the players retired and could talk, and the memoirs came out, and you could figure out what had happened… it was clear that management had lied, repeatedly, while players told the truth.

But you didn’t know for sure until 5 years after the fact.

Dont forget to that Cochrane (Sitting beside Bontis) Was also part of TFC at that time.