Stefan Mitrovic

[SoccMan]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

The Olympic qualifying was not during an International break. His club wouldn't have had to release him for it.

I understand but do we know if there was even an attempt to call him in?

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, SoccMan said:

I understand but do we know if there was even an attempt to call him in?

I don't think there was. But who knows. Its all speculation.

But so what. Lots of players get skipped over when they are younger. To get called later when they finally break out.

This is just a convenient excuse from Mitrovic's camp because they know that a lot of people hate the CSA enough they will eat it up.

Those rosters were pretty small if I recall. Only 20 players. Would people have been happy if we called Mitrovic in over Dias, just as a hypothetical?

Edited September 14, 2022 by narduch

[frmr]

43 minutes ago, narduch said:

I don't think there was. But who knows. Its all speculation.

But so what. Lots of players get skipped over when they are younger. To get called later when they finally break out.

This is just a convenient excuse from Mitrovic's camp because they know that a lot of people hate the CSA enough they will eat it up.

Those rosters were pretty small if I recall. Only 20 players. Would people have been happy if we called Mitrovic in over Dias, just as a hypothetical?

If he was good enough for the Serbian league, he was good enough for the CPL, which he was skipped over by all teams. It doesn't matter how you want to justify it, it was a failure to recognize talent across the board in Canada. His dad is a bit of a weirdo, but it doesn't change the fact that he slipped through the cracks in the country he was born.

[El Hombre]

43 minutes ago, narduch said:

Those rosters were pretty small if I recall. Only 20 players. Would people have been happy if we called Mitrovic in over Dias, just as a hypothetical?

I was going to post the highlighted part.

Also, the Olympic team was decimated by Covid just prior to the tournament.  The entire TFC contingent was wiped out as were guys like Twardek and Montgomery got hurt pretty early.  We were forced to bring in Farsi and Abzi because they were nearby.

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, frmr said:

If he was good enough for the Serbian league, he was good enough for the CPL, which he was skipped over by all teams. It doesn't matter how you want to justify it, it was a failure to recognize talent across the board in Canada. His dad is a bit of a weirdo, but it doesn't change the fact that he slipped through the cracks in the country he was born.

He was looked over by CPL clubs when he was 16 in 2019.

So that is a good enough reason to never play for Canada?

Sounds more like toxic entitlement to me.

 

[narduch]

Just to further this point:

Mitrovic trialed for the CPL in November 2018. For all we know he was simply considered too young to sign. Maybe he had a small growth spurt later?

Season 1 of CPL did not feature many very young players (only one I can really think of is maybe Pepple, who made 7 appearances for Cavalry as a 16 year old in 2019).

He signed for Radnicki Nis in 2019. First playing with their youth set up.

He made his professional debut on November 23, 2019.

He got his first full start on May 30, 2020. This is key. This happened AFTER the Olympic qualifying. So its a bit of revisionist history to argue he was looked over for the Olympics, at that time he was still only making sub appearances.

2020-21 was his real break out as a professional.

Anyways as usual probably not changing any minds.

[frmr]

15 minutes ago, narduch said:

He was looked over by CPL clubs when he was 16 in 2019.

So that is a good enough reason to never play for Canada?

Sounds more like toxic entitlement to me.

 

Lol, okay. The little bastard decided to play for the only country that ever gave him a chance. So toxic.

[frmr]

The amount of butthurt in this thread is palpable.

[canuckgbp]

The boards are getting squirrelly. Herdman needs to release the squad lol. 

[Obinna]

54 minutes ago, frmr said:

If he was good enough for the Serbian league, he was good enough for the CPL, which he was skipped over by all teams. It doesn't matter how you want to justify it, it was a failure to recognize talent across the board in Canada. His dad is a bit of a weirdo, but it doesn't change the fact that he slipped through the cracks in the country he was born.

I agree that CPL failed to identify Mitrovic in 2018, a player supposedly good enough to get called to the Serbian NT just four years later, and get the call just months before the world cup at that.

But I just want to point out that, to the best of my knowledge, he did make it to the final round of the open tryouts. It's not as if he got cut after day 1, or the morning session of day 2. He made it all the way to the end, which I recall was the afternoon session of day 2. So it's not as if the evaluators dismissed him completely. 

My point is that sometimes there's more that goes into selection than who is the most talented player, and when you get that far in tryouts the margins are thin, because everyone is talented, so other factors may come into play.

Clearly, Mitrovic was not head and shoulders above everyone else at that time, otherwise he would have been scooped up right away, and he probably wouldn't have had to go through the open tryouts to begin with. It's very probable, I believe, that he was simply one of many talented young Canadians who entered the open tryouts and made it to the end, without actually getting picked by a CPL club. You can't pick everyone.

We need to keep in mind the open tryouts, as far as I recall, served the purpose of filling out the remaining spots on rosters, so it wasn't a tryout to pick a team from scratch. So given he is an offensive midfielder, it's conceivable that CPL clubs already had plans for those positions, which made it easier to pass on him. I think we need to keep that in mind, because we are now blaming Mitrovic's failed CPL tryout on the coaches having a poor identification, but we are skipping over some nuance, I feel. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Obinna

[Kadenge]

Larin, Ayo, Richie, Miller, Alistar to name a few were all "missed" for youth teams. Larin played for the U20s after being capped for the senior team. Millar had to go to England  and  still answered the call from Canada when it came. Spitfire mentioned that Liam turned down a call to play for England youth teams.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Kadenge

[frmr]

Just now, Obinna said:

I agree that CPL failed to identify Mitrovic in 2018, a player supposedly good enough to get called to the Serbian NT just four years later, and get the call just months before the world cup at that.

But I just want to make the general point that, to the best of my knowledge, he did make it to the final round of the open tryouts. It's not as if he got cut after day 1, or the morning session of day 2. He made it all the way to the end, which I recall was the afternoon session of day 2.

My point is that when you get that far in tryouts the margins are thin. Clearly Mitrovic was not head and shoulders above everyone else at that time, otherwise he would have been scooped up right away, and he probably wouldn't have had to go through the open tryouts to begin with. It's very probable that he was one of many talented young Canadians who entered the open tryouts and made it to the end, without actually getting picked by a CPL club.

We need to keep in mind the open tryouts, as far as I recall, served the purpose of filling out the remaining spots on rosters, so it wasn't a tryout to pick a team from scratch. So given he is an offensive midfielder, it's conceivable that CPL clubs already had plans for those positions, which made it easier to pass on him. I think we need to keep that in mind, because we are now blaming Mitrovic's failed CPL tryout on the coaches having a poor identification, but we are skipping over some nuance, I feel. 

That's fair, but you can't really fault a kid who exhausts all his options in Canada, isn't given a shot, goes to Serbia, is given a chance and succeeds. It sucks for us, but at the end of the day, Canada had every chance to give him a shot, and we didn't. At club level or at national level (for the most part). It's like the frumpy girl in school who never got a second look (by Canada) and then when she grows up she becomes a 10, and the guy who knew her from school (Canada) tries to hit her up, but by then she's already married to some weird European (Serbia). Not my best metaphor, I admit.

[Obinna]

35 minutes ago, narduch said:

Just to further this point:

Mitrovic trialed for the CPL in November 2018. For all we know he was simply considered too young to sign. Maybe he had a small growth spurt later?

Season 1 of CPL did not feature many very young players (only one I can really think of is maybe Pepple, who made 7 appearances for Cavalry as a 16 year old in 2019).

He signed for Radnicki Nis in 2019. First playing with their youth set up.

He made his professional debut on November 23, 2019.

He got his first full start on May 30, 2020. This is key. This happened AFTER the Olympic qualifying. So its a bit of revisionist history to argue he was looked over for the Olympics, at that time he was still only making sub appearances.

2020-21 was his real break out as a professional.

Anyways as usual probably not changing any minds.

I agree with most of this, but I would argue a bit about the Olympic qualifying part. The qualifiers were in 2021 I believe, as 2020 was a lost year, so he was already breaking out and I felt (and still feel) it was unreasonable that a player breaking out in the Serbian top flight wasn't at least under consideration for our qualifying team. I am not even saying it was a tragedy not to select him. The real tragedy was the lack of indication he was even being considered.

As far as I recall he wasn't picked for the Serbian youth teams yet, but don't quote me on that. 

[narduch]

9 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Larin, Ayo, Richie, Miller, Alistar to name a few were all "missed" for youth teams. Larin played for the U20s after being capped for the senior team. Millar had to go to England  and  still answered the call from Canada when it came. Spitfire mentioned that Liam turned down a call to play for England youth teams.

Stop being so butthurt man.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I agree with most of this, but I would argue a bit about the Olympic qualifying part. The qualifiers were in 2021 I believe, as 2020 was a lost year, so he was already breaking out and I felt (and still feel) it was unreasonable that a player breaking out in the Serbian top flight wasn't at least under consideration for our qualifying team. I am not even saying it was a tragedy not to select him. The real tragedy was the lack of indication he was even being considered.

As far as I recall he wasn't picked for the Serbian youth teams yet, but don't quote me on that. 

Maybe you are right about the timelines.

I blame covid brain fog.

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, frmr said:

That's fair, but you can't really fault a kid who exhausts all his options in Canada, isn't given a shot, goes to Serbia, is given a chance and succeeds. It sucks for us, but at the end of the day, Canada had every chance to give him a shot, and we didn't. At club level or at national level (for the most part). It's like the frumpy girl in school who never got a second look (by Canada) and then when she grows up she becomes a 10, and the guy who knew her from school (Canada) tries to hit her up, but by then she's already married to some weird European (Serbia). Not my best metaphor, I admit.

Totally agree. I don't fault his decision at all. In fact, I still see a path (a very narrow, unlikely path) that he comes back around to Canada. Even now, he's made the most logical decision for his career, which is to keep pushing to see how far he can progress in the Serbian program. He still technically has both options open, at least until he plays a match, because if and when he does I think he needs to wait 3 years to switch, unless he plays 3 matches in that time (someone correct if I am mistaken). But that should suit Mitrovic just fine, because if he gets into 3 matches during that time, chances are he's well on his way to a career with Serbia. It's the smart decision for him in many respects.

Where I fault him is how it went down. Starting the process of a switch and then backing out. It's pretty disrespectful and cowardly, because at that point you have already singled your intention to switch nations. 

FIFA really should put forth some clause whereby starting the process locks you in, barring some very extreme circumstance. You shouldn't be allowed to start the process and then use that as leverage. 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

Maybe you are right about the timelines.

I blame covid brain fog.

All good. I actually never caught that at first, so I had to go back and revise that comment almost entirely. 

[Pottsy3]

2 hours ago, frmr said:

If he was good enough for the Serbian league, he was good enough for the CPL, which he was skipped over by all teams. It doesn't matter how you want to justify it, it was a failure to recognize talent across the board in Canada. His dad is a bit of a weirdo, but it doesn't change the fact that he slipped through the cracks in the country he was born.

Mitrovic's first start in the Serbian league was two years after not getting signed to a CPL side during trials. When you're a teenager your career trajectory can change really fast. There's a huge difference between playing for Red Star now, and the lower First Division club who had initially brought Stefan in. Stefan Cebara was playing on a similar Serbian League team prior to turning to the CPL, and he's not been exactly a good player at the CPL level. It's not so black-and-white.

[Pottsy3]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

Mitrovic trialed for the CPL in November 2018. For all we know he was simply considered too young to sign. Maybe he had a small growth spurt later?

Season 1 of CPL did not feature many very young players (only one I can really think of is maybe Pepple, who made 7 appearances for Cavalry as a 16 year old in 2019).

Important to note that the CPL developmental contracts did not exist in the first season either. From my understanding, Mitrovic would have been the youngest signing in the league at that point as Aribim Pepple signed late in the season (he was 16, as would have been Mitrovic). Outside of that I can only recall Scott Firth who was 18, Tyler Attardo and Victor Loturi were 17.

[Buchta]

12 minutes ago, Pottsy3 said:

 Stefan Cebara was playing on a similar Serbian League team prior to turning to the CPL, and he's not been exactly a good player at the CPL level. It's not so black-and-white.

Cebara only played in 5 league matches in Serbia during the 2017-18 season.

[InglewoodJack]

2 hours ago, narduch said:

He was looked over by CPL clubs when he was 16 in 2019.

So that is a good enough reason to never play for Canada?

Sounds more like toxic entitlement to me.

 

I think to be a professional athlete, you inherently need that "I'm the shit" mentality, and obviously, coming especially from a Serbian background, the thought of the lowly CPL snubbing you surely hits you in the ego, and when a better league, like Serbia's, comes calling, it gives you that high horse to take a "you weren't with me shooting in the gym" attitude, which is pretty much where Ivan and all was coming from. 

I don't think it's only entitlement though, I think by the time Canada woke themselves up to Mitrovic, he was already in the Serbian system, and with the paperwork required to bring him onto our team, we were on the outside looking in from the point in which he became a player we actually were interested in. Granted, we can shit on Canada as much as we want, and I have many posts in this thread about it, but it's only recently when people here thought he deserved a call up to Canada, so it isn't like the CSA missed something that was obvious even to fans.

I think there are multiple factors at play here that can all be true:

- Mitrovic and co were insulted by the Canada snub

- Mitrovic and co don't even really rate Canada and the CPL that high, so the goal, which was thought unattainable until recently, was to play for Serbia

- Canada woke up to him too late, because once Red Star and Serbia Football caught wind of him it was game over. Don't wanna speculate too much here, but you'd have to be insane to think there isn't a very close "partnership" between Red Star and the national team. The kid is the brightest young prospect for the most iconic team in the country, synonymous with their national identity, and you think they're going to face the embarrassment of losing him to a soccer backwater like Canada? They'd offer him everything they need to.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, canuckgbp said:

The boards are getting squirrelly. Herdman needs to release the squad lol. 

Fuck you. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, frmr said:

That's fair, but you can't really fault a kid who exhausts all his options in Canada, isn't given a shot, goes to Serbia, is given a chance and succeeds. It sucks for us, but at the end of the day, Canada had every chance to give him a shot, and we didn't. At club level or at national level (for the most part). It's like the frumpy girl in school who never got a second look (by Canada) and then when she grows up she becomes a 10, and the guy who knew her from school (Canada) tries to hit her up, but by then she's already married to some weird European (Serbia). Not my best metaphor, I admit.

I understood the case properly for the first time thanks to that metaphor.

Only I can't say I ever met a 10 who was a teen frumpy.

[kacbru]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Clearly, Mitrovic was not head and shoulders above everyone else at that time, otherwise he would have been scooped up right away, and he probably wouldn't have had to go through the open tryouts to begin with. It's very probable, I believe, that he was simply one of many talented young Canadians who entered the open tryouts and made it to the end, without actually getting picked by a CPL club. You can't pick everyone.

And maybe he performed terribly during the tryouts.  We all have off days, where nothing seems to go right.  Who among us hasn't kicked a ball off their other leg accidently, conceding a corner in which you give up the tying goal at the end of the game?  May or may not be speaking from personal experience.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Folks, he likely would have gone to the cancelled January precamp, not sure if he was called but thought he was.

We're talking about that Mexican kid whose sisters play in Serbia, right?