Stefan Mitrovic

[Kadenge]

33 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

^... and just goes to show our situation has improved A LOT, but we still have a ways to go with regards to dual nationals.

I think we've passed Lensky-like situations, but losing Flores, Mitrovic, Sali, Jebbision playing for England Youth, etc, ain't great.

Yes, even Brazil doesn't win them all, but we can still do better. A good showing at the World Cup would be huge imo

With our youth teams/programs being inactive there is no incentive or benefit to declare early for Canada re duals who play for English/Euro teams. There are numerous Euro youth tournaments at almost every age level and the resulting exposure for those players. This is a massive handicap for Canada.  The US youth teams play a lot of friendlies vs high profile Euro teams. The only option for Canada is to call up these players early for the senior team...but we don't play friendlies, so perhaps it's vs minnows for GC/CNL. We got lucky with Eustaquio and Corbeanu.

 

[MauditYvon]

I’m sad for guys like Mitrovic and Flores. They don’t wanna rush a commitment to Canada, but they do with Mexico and Serbia. Also looks like daddy’s decision. You gonna get Bunburied, sons.

Not the same for Tomori, Yankov, Sali or Kadioglu. I wish we had them but I perfectly understand their choice.

 

[InglewoodJack]

3 hours ago, Stoppage Time said:

One more thing to consider is the strong nationalist nature of Serbians. This goes back generations to well before World War I. This is also true of Croatia, Kosovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, and Montenegro, for example. Serbia was at the heart of the beginning of WW1 due to its occupation by the Austro Hungarian Empire.  The creation of Yugoslavia created a "unified" country under the leadership of strongman Tito (ironically, Yugloslavia reached as high as #3 in the world in the soccer), and that country was progressive and prosperous. When Tito died, the various Slavic nationalist peoples saw opportunity to promote their nations, as it were, and the Balkan Wars (genocides) of the 1980's and 1990's began (Look up Canada's UN Peacekeeping mission in the Medak Pocket). Many Slavic people in the Balkans hated each other and massacred each other under the disingenuous label of ethnic cleansing.  So it is no surprise that a Serbian person living in, for example, Canada, wants to BE Serbian because their ethnic roots are massive and deep! Perhaps Ivan fits into this category - I am not one to say, but it is plausible.

I don’t think it’s as deep as this, I think if you grew up with parents from a soccer culture, they consider Canadian soccer a joke, despite recent leaps forward. 
 

ive long said losing Mitrovic should make the national program heavily scrutinize the process in identifying young talent and ensuring this doesn’t happen, and I think we still should, but hearing what his dad is saying, I’m starting to wonder if it’s not more of a question of them being insulted that Canada didn’t look at Mitrovic younger, because such a lowly soccer country should obviously make a generational talent like Stefan Mitrovic their top priority (eye rolls around).

 

Oh well. I think most people would be happy if we were able to secure one between him, Jebbison, and Koleosho, and it certainly looks like we still have a chance at doing just that. 

[costarg]

6 hours ago, toontownman said:

...and....move.

Guys, save this tweet for when Stefan is capped cynically in extra time, never to be seen wearing the Serbian shirt again.  Then we can tweet Ivan and Stefan on their sofas while CANMNT is at the WC.

[Obinna]

I think it's worth mentioning that Mitrovic had to file a one-time switch for Canada, but not for Serbia. If he doesn't play in the NL with Serbia he can always file a switch. If he plays a single minute I believe he has to wait 3 years, right? He's good as gone anyways, but I for one would like to know what the remote possibilities are.

Consider it a form of self-tourture, I guess. 

He's not a starter for Red Star at the moment, whereas most players in the NT are playing for big clubs abroad, and the players who are local are typically standouts, which he isn't yet. Therefore, he's definitely a cynical cap tie.

Now the call may motivate him to elevate his play, to prove he belongs, but he may also not be good enough, and what happens then? I am getting Enis Sali vibes on this one, more so than Domonik Yankov vibes, or even Flroes vibes, because the Yankov call to Bulgaria was less cynical and more out of necessity, as they lost a player to injury at the last minute, and Yankov was actually the next best player they could have called (Bulgaria is relatively weak nowadays). Meanwhile, the Flores to Mexico call was more of an investment than a cynical cap-tie, because he's an Arsenal player (albeit out on loan), which says a lot about him, and Mexico has few players at such clubs. I can see Flores having more of an international career with Mexico than Mitrovic with Serbia, but you never know. He could explode now on the back of this, earn a starting role with Red Star, then transfer to a big club and be a Serbian NT regular. 

Final word: Although he's 99.999% gone, I will say he made the easy decision, the one that doesn't close any doors, officially (and if he already said he's going Serbian and not looking back, then excuse this part of my post).

Edited September 10, 2022 by Obinna

[SoCalTransport]

Bunbury’d, awesome term. Probably a good term for all these guys…

[Footyeh]

7 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Nobody in Canada really seemed to recognize his talent until it was too late. CPL teams didn’t even give him a chance 

I don't think he's a loss for this national program in the long run but the above post hits the nail on the head as to the greater problem in this country.   

The talent identification is absolutely horrible.  The national staff had no idea who he was until he started playing pro in another country.  He was never called to any camp during the 2002 age cycle of the U17 World Cup qualifying and Finals, not even included on a greater list of pool players.  98% of that pool of players selected in that cycle came from the 3 MLS academies.  Whenever we do have youth national camps, there's usually only the 3 MLS academies represented.  With all the talent and kids playing soccer in this country, there's no way the best players are ONLY playing in Whitecaps, TFC or Montreal.  We have an upcoming U17 camp in the next month, what are the odds we see the same thing?

We need to start identifying talent early as 14-17 years old.  CPL teams are becoming options for players 17-18 and above as we saw with our last U20 cycle, but what about before that?  Ontario has top clubs like Sigma and Vaughan that are constantly producing good young players, Edmonton has BTB that is doing good things, BC has a few academies that are sending players to Europe directly, yet the one thing all these clubs have in common is that the National Team scouts/staff refuse to even come look at these players.  There's a player in BC who is eligible for this upcoming U17 cycle, that's been trialing with top clubs in Europe, was even invited to join New York Red Bull's academy on a recent tournament in Europe, he's in Whitecaps backyard and he was never once approached by them until after.  How is that possible?

Our current men's national team proves that majority of the top players we have were developed outside the MLS academies, so why not focus on identifying those talents so we can grow our pool early?  The cost of acknowledging these academies, the talent they have and taking them serious is $0.

 

 

[sose]

Bun-buried 

[costarg]

15 hours ago, Footyeh said:

I don't think he's a loss for this national program in the long run but the above post hits the nail on the head as to the greater problem in this country.   

The talent identification is absolutely horrible.  The national staff had no idea who he was until he started playing pro in another country.  He was never called to any camp during the 2002 age cycle of the U17 World Cup qualifying and Finals, not even included on a greater list of pool players.  98% of that pool of players selected in that cycle came from the 3 MLS academies.  Whenever we do have youth national camps, there's usually only the 3 MLS academies represented.  With all the talent and kids playing soccer in this country, there's no way the best players are ONLY playing in Whitecaps, TFC or Montreal.  We have an upcoming U17 camp in the next month, what are the odds we see the same thing?

We need to start identifying talent early as 14-17 years old.  CPL teams are becoming options for players 17-18 and above as we saw with our last U20 cycle, but what about before that?  Ontario has top clubs like Sigma and Vaughan that are constantly producing good young players, Edmonton has BTB that is doing good things, BC has a few academies that are sending players to Europe directly, yet the one thing all these clubs have in common is that the National Team scouts/staff refuse to even come look at these players.  There's a player in BC who is eligible for this upcoming U17 cycle, that's been trialing with top clubs in Europe, was even invited to join New York Red Bull's academy on a recent tournament in Europe, he's in Whitecaps backyard and he was never once approached by them until after.  How is that possible?

Our current men's national team proves that majority of the top players we have were developed outside the MLS academies, so why not focus on identifying those talents so we can grow our pool early?  The cost of acknowledging these academies, the talent they have and taking them serious is $0.

 

 

Bingo, you nailed it.  

We have the kids and players with talent.  What we're missing are the coaches and scouts with talent and enough soccer IQ.  And I include CFM, TFC and VWC in there.  They just don't have the staff required to take a 16-18 to the next level.

[Kadenge]

17 hours ago, Footyeh said:

I don't think he's a loss for this national program in the long run but the above post hits the nail on the head as to the greater problem in this country.   

The talent identification is absolutely horrible.  The national staff had no idea who he was until he started playing pro in another country.  He was never called to any camp during the 2002 age cycle of the U17 World Cup qualifying and Finals, not even included on a greater list of pool players.  98% of that pool of players selected in that cycle came from the 3 MLS academies.  Whenever we do have youth national camps, there's usually only the 3 MLS academies represented.  With all the talent and kids playing soccer in this country, there's no way the best players are ONLY playing in Whitecaps, TFC or Montreal.  We have an upcoming U17 camp in the next month, what are the odds we see the same thing?

We need to start identifying talent early as 14-17 years old.  CPL teams are becoming options for players 17-18 and above as we saw with our last U20 cycle, but what about before that?  Ontario has top clubs like Sigma and Vaughan that are constantly producing good young players, Edmonton has BTB that is doing good things, BC has a few academies that are sending players to Europe directly, yet the one thing all these clubs have in common is that the National Team scouts/staff refuse to even come look at these players.  There's a player in BC who is eligible for this upcoming U17 cycle, that's been trialing with top clubs in Europe, was even invited to join New York Red Bull's academy on a recent tournament in Europe, he's in Whitecaps backyard and he was never once approached by them until after.  How is that possible?

Our current men's national team proves that majority of the top players we have were developed outside the MLS academies, so why not focus on identifying those talents so we can grow our pool early?  The cost of acknowledging these academies, the talent they have and taking them serious is $0.

 

 

I have highlighted some of your comments:

1. is the issue political re Cdn MLS  teams and  private academy teams re scouting/selecting youth players? David stated  he had pressure from Canada scouts to sign with an MLS team. Herdman seems like a very uber detailed guy who is big on bringing in young talented players. I would think  he would be pushing for a more comprehensive scouting/ ID approach?  This is all subjective on my part btw

2. Our last U20 team  in the recent Concacaf qualifying tournament did have several players outside of the 3 MLS teams. I know this was an issue in past youth squads but perhaps that's in the past?

 

[Footyeh]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

I have highlighted some of your comments:

1. is the issue political re Cdn MLS  teams and  private academy teams re scouting/selecting youth players? David stated  he had pressure from Canada scouts to sign with an MLS team. Herdman seems like a very uber detailed guy who is big on bringing in young talented players. I would think  he would be pushing for a more comprehensive scouting/ ID approach?  This is all subjective on my part btw

2. Our last U20 team  in the recent Concacaf qualifying tournament did have several players outside of the 3 MLS teams. I know this was an issue in past youth squads but perhaps that's in the past?

 

 

1.  

I'd say yes it is very political still with the MLS clubs.  Specifically Vancouver, who refuse to acknowledge any of the other academies and the work they are doing outside of the BCSPL youth league (in which they have control) because it doesn't reflect well on themselves.  For example, the boy from BC that guest played with New York Red Bulls was supposed to train this past week with the Whitecaps 2006 squad while the Canada U17 Staff was visiting and running the sessions.  This was a chance for the national staff to see the player and also a chance for Vancouver to try and recruit the kid.  However Whitecaps decided to place the boy with the 2007 age group on a different field "as it wouldn't be fair to the other kids if he was given a chance to partake in the national team sessions without being committed to the whitecaps". The result.. one less talented kid that doesn't even get as little as an evaluation.

Is this not a professional club?  At the highest levels are players not being replaced and seeing new ones come in every day?  The dad was advised that he needs to find a club (not an academy) if he wants to be selected for the upcoming camps.  What are the options available for them?  Which leagues to they scout?

2.  CPL teams are signing players at 17 or 18 years old now which is great, so naturally the pool at the U20 level gets expanded.  But between they are not signing players between the ages of 14-17 so what options are their for those players besides the 3 MLS clubs?  Even if a CPL does sign a kid in those ages, it's not likely they will play and therefore will not be selected to national camps.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Footyeh

[Stoppage Time]

I would like to have been a fly on the wall listening in on the (likely to have happened) conversations on between  Mitrovic and Borjan, and Mitrovic and Corbeanu regarding Mitrovic possibly playing for Canada. How would those discussions have gone?

[The Real Marc]

Maybe something along the lines of "I'd love you to play for Canada, it's been so great for me. But I don't blame you for wanting to play for Serbia. I might have done it in your situation too."

[Dominic94]

On 9/10/2022 at 7:15 PM, Footyeh said:

I don't think he's a loss for this national program in the long run but the above post hits the nail on the head as to the greater problem in this country.   

The talent identification is absolutely horrible.  The national staff had no idea who he was until he started playing pro in another country.  He was never called to any camp during the 2002 age cycle of the U17 World Cup qualifying and Finals, not even included on a greater list of pool players.  98% of that pool of players selected in that cycle came from the 3 MLS academies.  Whenever we do have youth national camps, there's usually only the 3 MLS academies represented.  With all the talent and kids playing soccer in this country, there's no way the best players are ONLY playing in Whitecaps, TFC or Montreal.  We have an upcoming U17 camp in the next month, what are the odds we see the same thing?

We need to start identifying talent early as 14-17 years old.  CPL teams are becoming options for players 17-18 and above as we saw with our last U20 cycle, but what about before that?  Ontario has top clubs like Sigma and Vaughan that are constantly producing good young players, Edmonton has BTB that is doing good things, BC has a few academies that are sending players to Europe directly, yet the one thing all these clubs have in common is that the National Team scouts/staff refuse to even come look at these players.  There's a player in BC who is eligible for this upcoming U17 cycle, that's been trialing with top clubs in Europe, was even invited to join New York Red Bull's academy on a recent tournament in Europe, he's in Whitecaps backyard and he was never once approached by them until after.  How is that possible?

Our current men's national team proves that majority of the top players we have were developed outside the MLS academies, so why not focus on identifying those talents so we can grow our pool early?  The cost of acknowledging these academies, the talent they have and taking them serious is $0.

 

 

This is very brutal, basically the message is if he’s not a whitecap we don’t want him. Now they want him because maybe they could sell him. But they also deny him the shot to make the WC team ??

[canuckgbp]

 

[Ally McCoist]

Man, fuck Mitrovic lol.  

There I said it.

[Markoaleks]

What could be part of the “offer” that is referenced in the offer ?

[Floortom]

2 minutes ago, Markoaleks said:

What could be part of the “offer” that is referenced in the offer ?

Guaranteed minimum number of calls?

[InglewoodJack]

How do national team "offers" even work? Say they offer him a spot in the World Cup, or a certain number of call ups, a certain roster position, etc., and then once he's cap tied, they realize, actually, he's not that good, we won't call him up, he won't make the WC roster, etc., but he can no longer play for Canada. I don't think you can complain to FIFA for that, no?

[Corazon]

This is not like Yankov where he can feature for a country like Bulgaria regularly.  Hench why he is 22 with 12 caps already for Bulgaria.  Yankov would have been a nice depth piece to Canada but I doubt he'd receive 12 caps in a career with Canada.  Or it would definitely take him a lot more than 2 years to reach 12 caps for Canada.  This screams of a rash decision by Mitrovic and his father if true.  He is no where near the quality of current Serbian midfielders so he either is betting on himself to continue to improve significantly or he has his Serbian "blinders" on.  And, like Eustaquio had to consider with Portugal, there will be a whole new set of young Serbian midfielders entering the fold every year.

[InglewoodJack]

17 minutes ago, Corazon said:

This is not like Yankov where he can feature for a country like Bulgaria regularly.  Hench why he is 22 with 12 caps already for Bulgaria.  Yankov would have been a nice depth piece to Canada but I doubt he'd receive 12 caps in a career with Canada.  Or it would definitely take him a lot more than 2 years to reach 12 caps for Canada.  This screams of a rash decision by Mitrovic and his father if true.  He is no where near the quality of current Serbian midfielders so he either is betting on himself to continue to improve significantly or he has his Serbian "blinders" on.  And, like Eustaquio had to consider with Portugal, there will be a whole new set of young Serbian midfielders entering the fold every year.

Based on their call ups over the last few years, Mitrovic will be competing for his roster spot with guys currently playing for teams like Ajax, Sevilla, Juve, Lazio, etc. They also didn't call anyone up under 21 in the last tear at least. Last World Cup, all of their MFs were in top 5 leagues except Grujic who was 22 then, and also didn't play a minute. I agree with you, which is what makes me so curious at what Serbia could've "offered" him, because unless he gets a lot better very quickly, it wouldn't be in Serbia's character to call him up to the 2026 WC, let alone the 2022 one. I get that Nations League and the Euros are a better draw than what Concacaf has to offer, but this just doesn't seem like a smart long term move.

 

Also worth noting that Grujic is a depth piece for Serbia, doesn't really play much against the top teams, and to put that into perspective, our very own Stephen Eustaquio, one of our best players, is currently fighting for his roster spot at Porto with Grujic, just to put into perspective how competitive the Serbian midfield is.

Edited September 13, 2022 by InglewoodJack

[Floortom]

11 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Based on their call ups over the last few years, Mitrovic will be competing for his roster spot with guys currently playing for teams like Ajax, Sevilla, Juve, Lazio, etc. They also didn't call anyone up under 21 in the last tear at least. Last World Cup, all of their MFs were in top 5 leagues except Grujic who was 22 then, and also didn't play a minute. I agree with you, which is what makes me so curious at what Serbia could've "offered" him, because unless he gets a lot better very quickly, it wouldn't be in Serbia's character to call him up to the 2026 WC, let alone the 2022 one. I get that Nations League and the Euros are a better draw than what Concacaf has to offer, but this just doesn't seem like a smart long term move.

 

Also worth noting that Grujic is a depth piece for Serbia, doesn't really play much against the top teams, and to put that into perspective, our very own Stephen Eustaquio, one of our best players, is currently fighting for his roster spot at Porto with Grujic, just to put into perspective how competitive the Serbian midfield is.

Well this is why he needed an "offer" from Serbia. Clearly he realizes he's not yet at the level to get deserved calls. That's not an insult but just reality

[Corazon]

11 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Based on their call ups over the last few years, Mitrovic will be competing for his roster spot with guys currently playing for teams like Ajax, Sevilla, Juve, Lazio, etc. They also didn't call anyone up under 21 in the last tear at least. Last World Cup, all of their MFs were in top 5 leagues except Grujic who was 22 then, and also didn't play a minute. I agree with you, which is what makes me so curious at what Serbia could've "offered" him, because unless he gets a lot better very quickly, it wouldn't be in Serbia's character to call him up to the 2026 WC, let alone the 2022 one. I get that Nations League and the Euros are a better draw than what Concacaf has to offer, but this just doesn't seem like a smart long term move.

 

Also worth noting that Grujic is a depth piece for Serbia, doesn't really play much against the top teams, and to put that into perspective, our very own Stephen Eustaquio, one of our best players, is currently fighting for his roster spot at Porto with Grujic, just to put into perspective how competitive the Serbian midfield is.

Serbia has also endured 6 different managers in 6 years.  So not sure what that means for any guarantees or agreements if a new manager comes in.

[hodgkiss]

and... finally close the thread - thank God! Move on...

 

 

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Serbia has also endured 6 different managers in 6 years.  So not sure what that means for any guarantees or agreements if a new manager comes in.

Serbia has a lot more pressure to show results than Canada does too. A couple bad showings and the manager getting sacked is enough to overhaul their roster, and they certainly have the depth to do so.

 

Overall, just a bad move for him any way you look at it, IMO, but I guess if he thinks he's good enough to have a role for a team as deep as Serbia, and he thinks his career is going to keep quickly rising, I can't fault a guy for betting on himself big time. I guess I also see the allure- he's been on Serbian TV, Belgrade has murals to multiple players of theirs on random street corners, he plays for a team that's extremely closely tied to their national identity, it's his dad's country, etc.

On the other hand, padding his stats against Martinique and belize and the Cayman Islands would've helped him move along too, just saying...