The Road to Qatar.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, EJsens1 said:

How is this an asinine discussion? Nobody is downplaying the war or mocking it.  It’s a legitimate debate within the context of World Cup qualifying. The fact other federations are coming out with their positions only reinforces it even further. 

If Israel can be part of UEFA as a way to avoid impossible to resolve political disputes, Russia could always be punted to the AFC along with their Belarus Mine-me sidekick, if there is no short to medium term solution to what is unfolding right now.

The airspace ban issue might be the way to eliminate Russia's national and club teams from participating against the rest of UEFA short term, but I suspect we'll see games moved to neutral venues instead. 

[Cheeta]

21 hours ago, Jedi Ram said:

If Russia is booted from WC, then who replaced them ?  Slovakia who finished 3rd in Group H ?  Or Hungary - Highest UNL Group Winner ?   Or Poland gets a bye and plays at home vs. Sweden / Czech winner ?

Similarity, if Ukraine is unable to play, then who replace them ?  Finland who finished 3rd in Group  D ? Or Or Hungary - Highest UNL Group Winner ?  Or Scotland gets a bye and plays away vs. Wales / Austria winner ?

If both teams are unable to play, what then ?  It gets very messy which UEFA and FIFA needs to work it out. 

Yeah, it's tough because we're running out of clock to keep the March schedule intact.   

Understatement to say it would feel criminal to drop Ukraine from the competition.  But who even knows if Ukraine can be at Hampden next month?  Half the team has traded in their boots for bullets and in all likelyhood will be too busy with other matters to take a trip to Glasgow.  And with no end in sight what's the point of postponing?  Things are unlikely to change any time soon.

I'd guess in the end it will be decided that the Scotland-Ukraine play off proceeds.  Was always going to be tough for Ukraine with players coming off the long winter break and all and, of course, it's gotten even tougher but I can't see a lesser evil. 

Is there enough time to bring in an alternative for Russia?  Maybe.  Mabe not.  If it was up to me I would just give Poland a bye to the final in their bracket if it can't be arranged otherwise.  MIght be some strong debate as to who should sub in though.

 

  

[EJsens1]

Double post from earlier!

Edited February 27, 2022 by EJsens1

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If Israel can be part of UEFA as a way to avoid impossible to resolve political disputes, Russia could always be punted to the AFC along with their Belarus Mine-me sidekick, if there is no short to medium term solution to what is unfolding right now.

The airspace ban issue might be the way to eliminate Russia's national and club teams from participating against the rest of UEFA short term, but I suspect we'll see games moved to neutral venues instead. 

So undocumented sometimes.

Before the founding of the State of Israel they already played as a FIFA recognised FA in the 1930s, as Palestine, playing to qualify for both 1930s WCs. And in 1930s qualifying rounds they played vs. teams now in Africa (Egypt) and UEFA (Greece). But the key precedent is having been a British protectorate. 

Then the FA is in Asia until relatively recently, in spite of the conflicts of 48, Suez, Six-Day War, '74, basically a long legacy of political conflicts, only the last causes them being deauthorised in Asia. The Asian Cup is even played in Israel in the 1960s, if I recall correctly. The shift to UEFA is actually recent comparatively; before they move to UEFA, Fifa has them play in Oceania. 

So your interpretation of why Israel is in UEFA is not even accurate, but nice try. And nice specualation on Russia there, who are not going to be expelled into Asia, which is doubly absurb for another reason: what makes you think Asian nations would welcome another rival power into their Federation, after the Australia precedent, making it even harder for them to qualify for the WC? Apart from opposition by Asian countries also protesting the current invasion.

There's another reason it won't happen: many former Soviet republics are in the Russian sphere, obviously, and support their continuity in UEFA and in fact benefit from it. 

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[SpursFlu]

I've got a brave prediction. Fifa will do fuck all

[lamptern]

FIFA issued partial ban on Russia.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/qatar2022/media-releases/bureau-of-the-fifa-council-takes-initial-measures-with-regard-to-war-in

 

[LittleOzzy]

10 minutes ago, lamptern said:

FIFA issued partial ban on Russia.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/qatar2022/media-releases/bureau-of-the-fifa-council-takes-initial-measures-with-regard-to-war-in

 

Not good enough, but FIFA doesn't care.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

I think FIFA is more concerned about the Pandora's box this could open.  Where do you draw the line?  Should China be banned for their genocide of Uyghurs?  Should the US have been kicked out for invading Iraq on false pretenses?  

[youllneverwalkalone]

Yes and yes.

[lamptern]

From Skynews they think this ban is last warning to Russia before FIFA kick Russia out off World Cup. 

If war still escalates in the coming week, I guess that will inevitably to happen.

[Cheeta]

53 minutes ago, lamptern said:

FIFA issued partial ban on Russia.

https://www.fifa.com/tournaments/mens/worldcup/qatar2022/media-releases/bureau-of-the-fifa-council-takes-initial-measures-with-regard-to-war-in

 

LOL.  Well, I guess they had to say something.

Think we all know how this is going to end for Russia's WCQing attempt.  You know, just because it already has.

You'd think FIFA would have taken a lesson or two away from the recent Olympics.  Or not.

 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

19 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

Yes and yes.

Precisely.

It's always notable that FIFA's suspensions for government interference are only ever handed out to powerless nations with zero political or commercial leverage (Guatemala, Pakistan, T&T etc). 

Russia, China, and the US all have leverage on FIFA through relationships (Putin/Infantino), poliitical power (FIFA exco roles), commercial agreements (Visa, Wanda, Gazprom), and lucrative TV contracts.

[TheDoon]

What an absolute joke of a decision by FIFA. Russia is literally invading another nation and they’re just going to let them play without using the flag or anthem?

FIFA markets itself as the unifier of people around the world through soccer and has no (well somewhat little) tolerance of Racism, yet they don’t come down with a harsh ruling here. How absolutely embarrassing. 
 

Russia should already be kicked out of qualifying and a threat should be made about removing them from the next cycle altogether as well. 

[Free kick]

3 hours ago, Cheeta said:

LOL.  Well, I guess they had to say something.

Think we all know how this is going to end for Russia's WCQing attempt.  You know, just because it already has.

You'd think FIFA would have taken a lesson or two away from the recent Olympics.  Or not.

 

Marcotti is saying the same thing.  That they are doing just like the Olympics

Edited February 28, 2022 by Free kick

[pod818]

 

[narduch]

Looks like UEFA is gong to kick Spartak Moscow out of Europa League.

[Unnamed Trialist]

32 minutes ago, narduch said:

Looks like UEFA is gong to kick Spartak Moscow out of Europa League.

Some like Bild are confirming this already. 

So that puts their rival, RB Leipzig, directly into quarter finals. 

Not related directly, but in Euroleague basketball, which is a private league (like the proposed soccer SuperLeague), all three Russian teams are still in, being effectively stakeholders and 2 being voting permanent members. They are forced to not play at home (except vs. other Russian teams), but something else is happening: CSKA and Zenit have both had a chunk of players leave, Lithuanians, Germans, Americans (including one American born in Ukraine). Their core rosters are seriously depleted.

Just a few minutes ago, in a GM, the three Russian teams asked for the Euroleague to be suspended for a month so they can sort things out.

Edit: it is also affecting the European qualifying group for next year's Rugby WC, what are Europe 1 (Georgia) and 2 (not decided), plus repechage team, in a group including Russia. Problem with eliminating all matches played vs Russia in rugby is how extra points are rewarded for trys and point spreads. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[SoccMan]

13 hours ago, TheDoon said:

What an absolute joke of a decision by FIFA. Russia is literally invading another nation and they’re just going to let them play without using the flag or anthem?

FIFA markets itself as the unifier of people around the world through soccer and has no (well somewhat little) tolerance of Racism, yet they don’t come down with a harsh ruling here. How absolutely embarrassing. 
 

Russia should already be kicked out of qualifying and a threat should be made about removing them from the next cycle altogether as well. 

It’s FIFA not surprising.

[Approve My Account Pls]

FIFA to outright ban Russia according to article on the Athletic

[LittleOzzy]

16 hours ago, LittleOzzy said:

Not good enough, but FIFA doesn't care.

It took an extra 48 hours or so, but FIFA finally made the right call to outright ban them.

[pod818]

12 minutes ago, LittleOzzy said:

It took an extra 48 hours or so, but FIFA finally made the right call to outright ban them.

They really had no choice if Poland, Sweden and Czech weren't going to play

[TheDoon]

30 minutes ago, LittleOzzy said:

It took an extra 48 hours or so, but FIFA finally made the right call to outright ban them.

This shouldn’t be conditional either. Russia has made their choice and even if they start pulling out tomorrow these consequences need to stay in place. 
 

Also, How pathetic that FIFA couldn’t reach this decision earlier. 

[jonovision]

While this is ultimately the right decision, it is only due to an accident of timing that FIFA has much leverage. Nobody would be saying boo if Russia was already eliminated from qualifying.

In addition, and as others have mentioned, this forces the question of who decides which wars/conflicts/whatever euphemism one chooses are disqualifying from participating. This doesn't mean that FIFA didn't make the right decision, but there is a precedent now that will highlight some obvious inequities when it isn't applied in the future.

[Obinna]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_invasions#2000–present

List of countries who've invaded other countries without major FIFA repercussions:

• Senegal (Gambia)
• Nigeria (Gambia)
• Ghana (Gambia)
• Turkey (Syria)
• Israel (West Bank)
• Russia (Ukraine 1.0)
• Russia (Georgia)
• Ethiopia (Somalia)
• Israel (Gaza)
• Poland (Iraq)
• UAE (Yemen)
• Poland (Iraq)
• USA (Iraq)
• Australia (Iraq)
• UK (Iraq)
• Israel (Afghanistan)
• USA (Afghanistan)
• UK (Afghanistan)

Compared to 2022 Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria in particular stand out as far more egregious acts of war deserving of punishment, yet that never occurred.

I find it interesting that now, suddenly, Russia will seemingly receive a punishment by FIFA, despite no similar action whatsoever against USA, UK, Israel, etc.

Interesting, no?

[jonovision]

2 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Compared to 2022 Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria in particular stand out as far more egregious acts of war deserving of punishment, yet that never occurred.

I wouldn't say any are more egregious (I have a hard time saying any war of aggression is justifiable) but they certainly are at or close to the same level. At this current moment, one could ask why the opponents in Asia WCQ wouldn't refuse to play against Saudi Arabia, for example.