Possible CPL Salary Cap Discussion

[narduch]

Everybody likes to talk about how TFC changed MLS, but TFC's season tickets weren't even selling that well until Beckham signed with LA.

[lazlo_80]

11 hours ago, Cheeta said:

I think you're over simplifying.  A lot of things came together to finally get MLS "over the hump" as it were, and David Beckham and the DP rule were a part of it all, but  I think it was way more complicated than just that.  

Seriously. I think MLS coming to Toronto, and the eye opening experience that it was, alone did more good for MLS than any other single factor.  TFC, was instantly a snapshot of everything MLS HQ was advocating for in order to outgrow what MLS had become to that point.  MLS was looking to move towards soccer specific stadium, urban locations, and a more big-tent appeal towards footie fans. 

Overnight, every existing MLS market looked at Toronto and asked "why don't we have that?".  Overnight, every potential MLS market looked at Toronto and said "why can't we have that?". 

To my mind at least, looking in from the outside, the DP rule tried to build off of all that.  And in it's time and place it absolutely did.  For sure.  But A afforded an opportunity for B.  But I'm not sure B can transplant well into another time and place in quite the same way.

I think that is something important to keep in mind for the current CPL braintrust.  Even if they're considering a DP option on a more modest scale.  

    

I definitely am oversimplifying. But I respectfully disagree with you on a few points. Toronto FC definitely showed people how to do a team correctly. But the Beckham signing made MLS a "thing". It legitimized the league and got an unprecedented amount of interest in it almost overnight. I think we're agreeing on the broad strokes but might not agree on some of the details. Still the DP rule was just a simple turn key way to get attention and eyeballs it would be hard to say it wasn't a success.

 

[narduch]

7 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said:

I definitely am oversimplifying. But I respectfully disagree with you on a few points. Toronto FC definitely showed people how to do a team correctly. But the Beckham signing made MLS a "thing". It legitimized the league and got an unprecedented amount of interest in it almost overnight. I think we're agreeing on the broad strokes but might not agree on some of the details. Still the DP rule was just a simple turn key way to get attention and eyeballs it would be hard to say it wasn't a success.

 

I actually had more interest in my TFC tickets when Defoe was here for games I couldn't attend compared to the Championship seasons with Giovinco (except maybe for the later playoff rounds).

I don't think people really realize how big the EPL really is.

Edited August 16, 2019 by narduch

[lazlo_80]

 

8 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Fair enough--but because CPL DPs would not be making more money than MLS journeymen, and so would not be anywhere near the prestige or name recognition of a Rooney or Pirlo, you'd be spending money that would not get you what you want.

Then you would pale in comparison to MLS, which is precisely the scenario you do not want to set up for the naysayers.

Answer me this: who were Cincinnati's DPs last year, in USL1, with 40,000 fans some games,? Cincinnati were led by Emmanuel Ledesma, leading scorer and league leader in assists. Are you telling me the fans came out to watch Emmanuel Ledesma?

Its tough to know without knowing the details. But a guy like Drogba is playing in USL right now. I think there are people you could probably get within whatever their cap is that would get fans interested in the team.

[Big_M]

Drogba is not playing in usl he is retired

[lazlo_80]

Just now, Big_M said:

Drogba is not playing in usl he is retired

my mistake. But he did play a few seasons. 

[CDNFootballer]

Marque players do make a difference and will help bring in more fans but a 200k player is not going to have as big as a difference as a 500-1m player, which CPL is not ready for yet but will be one day as the league grows year by year.

Slow and steady growth is whats needed now and for the next few years, walk before you run, and CPL will be running one day as a strong D1 paying good salaries and competing at a high level drawing 5 figure crowds.

[CDNFootballer]

More info on CPL salaries and extra's that the league apparently provides from an article from the Ottawa Citizen from an interview with Jeff Hunt, where he said :

"We’re arranging accommodations for players — it’s one of the responsibilities for teams in the CPL."

https://ottawasun.com/sports/soccer/the-real-jeff-hunt-says-things-about-to-get-busy-for-atletico-ottawa

The salary cap amount was also revealed a few weeks ago , when Gil Marín said directly that the salary cap was

$750,000.

With some USL teams paying as low as 400K USD (535K in Canadian $) and many in and around the USL league recommended 500K USD for team salaries apparently, the Canadian Premier League is competitive for players with the US league at the $750K range and it was a good starting point for the new Canadian Div 1 in the end. Another added extra for CPL players is the health insurance/medical coverage that also should be factored in.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by CDNFootballer

[Initial B]

But remember that $750K CDN is about $573K USD, so CanPL is not *that* much better paid than USL-C. I guess one of the attractions would be the possibility of playing international games in CL, which isn't possible for a second division.

[Mikmacdo]

4 minutes ago, Initial B said:

But remember that $750K CDN is about $573K USD, so CanPL is not *that* much better paid than USL-C. I guess one of the attractions would be the possibility of playing international games in CL, which isn't possible for a second division.

its 750 to 800 usd not cad. 

[Initial B]

14 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

its 750 to 800 usd not cad. 

When did they specify the currency? I don't recall. If it really is USD, then that is a pretty good start.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Initial B

[deschamp86]

51 minutes ago, Mikmacdo said:

its 750 to 800 usd not cad. 

That would make very little sense if the CPL had their salary cap in USD

[Mikmacdo]

57 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

That would make very little sense if the CPL had their salary cap in USD

The CFL has a salary cap in USD. 

[narduch]

The CFL's players are mostly American.

[MtlMario]

6 hours ago, narduch said:

The CFL's players are mostly American.

CFL players are majority Canadians.

[Mikmacdo]

10 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

CFL players are majority Canadians.

Exactly. 20 Americans out of 46 players. 

[narduch]

The point still stands. CFL is trying to attract American players to come here. 

It makes no sense for CPL to pay in American dollars

[Ams1984]

39 minutes ago, narduch said:

The point still stands. CFL is trying to attract American players to come here. 

It makes no sense for CPL to pay in American dollars

I was also shocked to learn (when I lived in FL) that the CFL is on American cable TV (at least it was then - a few years ago). I wonder if the US tv viewership rivals the Canadian viewership. Also, not that I know about or care about the CFL at all, but an American friend told me that many of the CFL players were US college players who didn’t quite make the grade to get into the NFL, but some of whom nevertheless remain popular in the US. 
 

Anyways, I have nothing against the CFL or it’s fans, but I don’t see much value in conflating it with the CPL in any way. It’s not an especially useful comparator. Then again, neither is any other sports league that isn’t a soccer league in my opinion. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Ams1984
Autocorrect is stupid.

[RickC]

8 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

The CFL has a salary cap in USD. 

I've never seen anything to indicate the CFL salary cap is in US$. All information I've seen simply indicates $. Given almost all of the teams revenues are in CD$ it's highly unlikely their largest expense would be in US$. The three Canadian-based MLS teams on the other hand...

[CDNFootballer]

10 hours ago, Initial B said:

But remember that $750K CDN is about $573K USD, so CanPL is not *that* much better paid than USL-C. I guess one of the attractions would be the possibility of playing international games in CL, which isn't possible for a second division.

Health insurance and the included accomodations/housing would be an advantage over USL-C also.

[Unnamed Trialist]

It'd be interesting to put a relative value on the non-salary benefits that players receive in CPL. And which of them are considered standard, which are only being offered by some teams. 

In lower division football apartments for players are not uncommon, the world over. I recall hearing Piette shared an apartment when at Izarra in Spain, which was a very modest club for third tier. Whitecaps before MLS had apartments in False Creek South (where I am when I go back), I know because I saw players running along False Creek seawall or even training in the parks (and I think they still may have these apartments, I saw Nerwinski last summer for example). 

However they are paid for, or not paid for (sponsors), at least for CPL they would not count as salary and thus not count against the cap. Another question is if players continue to have the right to be in that apartment in the off season, and until when in the case of a player that does not end up re-signing.

So if you have an apartment for at least 10 months; a car for shared use to go train but also for personal use, sharing with flatmates; and health benefits beyond public coverage (full dentistry, for example), as well as a training centre where you may eat a meal a day, that could be worth 10-15k a year, depending where you are. If your contract is for 40k, we are talking about 25% more in non-salary benefits and extras.

Edit: so let me conclude a bit better. If you are putting out a value of 10k or a bit more per player in such benefits that are not counted as salary, your labour costs are at a million, 750 + 250k.

Edited March 5, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist

[hamiltonfan]

10 hours ago, Mikmacdo said:

The CFL has a salary cap in USD. 

CFL is CAD.CPL is CAD.

CPL cap is $750K. This does not include housing, or car allowances. Clubs budget for ancillary compensation (e.g., house, car, food allowances) vary.

Like many leagues, there is a wide range of club budgets in USLC. The top club’s budgets are substantially more than CPL budgets. The smaller clubs operate on shoestring budgets. When comparing CPL player budgets to USLC, CPL player budgets are average to above average.

Edited March 5, 2020 by hamiltonfan

[CanSuffer]

CFL is USD. CFL is CAD.

What we need here is a solid reference with link to put the argument to bed.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

14 hours ago, Initial B said:

But remember that $750K CDN is about $573K USD, so CanPL is not *that* much better paid than USL-C...

USL-C doesn't have a cap, so it isn't possible to make direct comparisons like that.

[PaulV]

12 hours ago, CanSuffer said:

CFL is USD. CFL is CAD.

What we need here is a solid reference with link to put the argument to bed.

https://cfldb.ca/faq/compensation/

This indicates that the CFL pays Canadian dollars.