Jump to content
Initial B

Possible CPL Salary Cap Discussion

Recommended Posts

We've been hearing rumors of salary caps anywhere between 500K to 1.5 million bandied about here. I think someone mentioned that they heard one players phoning England and asking his dad if he could live on $50K in Canada. An annual salary of 40 hours a week at minimum wage in Ontario is $29,120. If we assume these will be the base salaries for players in the league, what can we expect the actual cap to be? What should the cap be? Should they have designated players or a Luxury tax? Hard or Soft Cap? How many players at what levels? I would like to see discussion in here based on the news that comes out over the next few month and try to piece together the actual cap despite all the smoke and mirrors.

For starters, I think I would like to see there be some flexibility in roster building between teams, but i want to see a ceiling and a floor. I also want to see lots of U-23s on the roster. So what about having "buckets" of players with their own maximum and minimum salaries? For example:

  1.  Core Players ($400K max total, split between 1-4 players, minimum salary $80K): These are the marquee players that ownership signs for their skill level to get butts into seats, and make that one play every game that makes it worth the price of admission. They can be any age or nationality.
  2. Standard Players ($620K max total, split between 9-11 players, salary range $50-80K): These are the everyday starters that fill out the majority of starting lineup. They have to be under the age of 30 and at least half of them need to be eligible to play for the CMNT.
  3. U23 Players ($380K max total, split between 8-11 players, salary range $30-50K): These are the college-age players that are trying to play their way into better circumstances. They should be paid above minimum wage so they can focus on skills improvement rather than needing to work an extra job to make ends meet. Some of them may play for USports teams in the fall and the CSA/CPL should come to an understanding with the universities that they will be able to retain their eligibility. They have to be under 23 years old as of Jan 1st of that soccer year and must be eligible to play for the CMNT. 
  4. U18 Academy Players ($5K max total, 0 to unlimited players, paid per game): These are the emergency players that the team calls up when the team is either riddled with injuries or as a reward for exceptional play at a lower tier. Some clubs might have a team and some might not, instead having agreements with a local pool of clubs that meet the CSA LTPD guidelines. As with the U23's there should be an understanding with USports that they will still be eligible for university play. They have to be under 18 years old as of Jan 1st of that soccer year and must be eligible to play for the appropriate level of Canadian National Team.

A system like this would be flexible in that teams can be comprised of anywhere from 18-26 salaried players and a team salary cap from between $770K to $1.4 million, meeting the requirements of owners with a variety of ambitions. It would also guarantee that at least two starters per team will be Canadians or Canada eligible.

Edit: Hmmm, just a thought: Should there be a coaching salary cap as well?

Edited by Initial B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Initial B said:

...An annual salary of 40 hours a week at minimum wage in Ontario is $29,120...

Not convinced that most contracts will cover the full year given the owners gain nothing through doing so on a single season contract and are usually looking out for a way to cut costs. Do players get paid during the CFL's offseason? Beyond that we have had two apparently conflicting pictures of what the cap is likely to be based on salary numbers that were floating around earlier in the year from CanPL related sources that pointed to $1 million plus followed by the more recent claims of 500k or so around the time that the Fury annonced they were steering clear. We'll find out soon enough which is accurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NHL players don't get paid during the off-season either.  A guy making $6M a year isn't getting $500k each month, he's getting $1M a month for the 6 months of the season and then playoff bonuses if the team makes the playoffs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There isn’t a single reputable source that I’ve seen that has suggested $500K for a salary cap. Additionally, the commish confirmed this today, first by saying that the operating budget will be over $1M and then by saying: 

“The vast majority of that will obviously be in the players,” said Clanachan.

Vast majority of over $1M literally means greater than $500K. 

And this also confirms everything I’ve heard elsewhere. 

https://the11.ca/canpl-commissioner-suggests-there-may-be-room-for-creativity-when-it-comes-to-signing-players/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no way this late in the process the league does not have at least some idea on the pay structure for players. They would have to, especially with agents contacting them to explore playing opportunities for their clients. Even with the open trials that have been going on, an idea would have been given to those who advanced out of them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rob.notenboom said:

There isn’t a single reputable source that I’ve seen that has suggested $500K for a salary cap. Additionally, the commish confirmed this today, first by saying that the operating budget will be over $1M and then by saying: 

“The vast majority of that will obviously be in the players,” said Clanachan.

Vast majority of over $1M literally means greater than $500K. 

And this also confirms everything I’ve heard elsewhere. 

https://the11.ca/canpl-commissioner-suggests-there-may-be-room-for-creativity-when-it-comes-to-signing-players/

operating budget will be over $1 million — but how much of that will be devoted to player salaries?

“The vast majority of that will obviously be in the players,” said Clanachan.

Also in the article Clanachan confirms it will be 20 to 23 players not 25 

My prediction is that it’s $1,250,000 for players and $250,000 for coaching staff 

Edited by Thomas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We'll no doubt find out soon enough why operating rather than salary budget is being mentioned in this context and whether that choice of phrasing was significant. Won't be long until they start signing players.

Edited by BringBackTheBlizzard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RAISE THE BAR, SET THE STANDARD

These debates were premised on an idea that if we had a high cap, some teams would be affected as they would not be able to compete on salary. They'd pay under it, and we'd overprice our league, the classic fear going back to the failure of NASL.

The Ottawa case--however miscontrued--ended up at least making us aware that a salary cap that was too low could also hurt the league, as it would cut into the ambitions of the teams most ready, with the better markets, most prepared to pay for quality.

I now feel that we have to push the cap up, so as to not limit our best and strongest franchises. They are the clubs who have to lead the league and set the standard. And let those with less to spend to work things out somewhere below the cap, if they can't pay it. If we cap at 1.5, and a team spends 900k, is that going to mean they are going to miss out players, who will turn them down? Perhaps. Although other factors would mitigate this, such as geography giving Pacific an edge, and proximity to GTO players a wider pool for York9. It'd balance out partially.

In any case, I think we should take that risk, for the sake of ensuring the at least 5 teams who are apparently ready to handle a higher cap are at full potential. And ask the others to compete as hard as they may --which they will--and catch up asap. Raise the bar, not lower it. 

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

Also in the article Clanachan confirms it will be 20 to 23 players not 25

Good. Kept seeing alot of 25 player roster salary breakdowns from posters here which i found ridiculous. I posted my breakdown as an 18+5 roster earlier this year in the CPL General thread. I think the CPL would be smart to follow what MLS was doing early on with a smaller development roster for young players with lower salaries.

Senior Roster (18 players, 50% foreign limit) $1.5M

4 × 150 = 600k

4× 100 = 400k

10 × 40-60 = 500k

Min. 40k salary, max. 200k

Development Roster (5 players, CDN U23)

5 × 25k = 125k exempt from cap

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

Good. Kept seeing alot of 25 player roster salary breakdowns from posters here which i found ridiculous. I posted my breakdown as an 18+5 roster earlier this year in the CPL General thread. I think the CPL would be smart to follow what MLS was doing early on with a smaller development roster for young players with lower salaries.

Senior Roster (18 players, 50% foreign limit) $1.5M

4 × 150 = 600k

4× 100 = 400k

10 × 40-60 = 500k

Min. 40k salary, max. 200k

Development Roster (5 players, CDN U23)

5 × 25k = 125k exempt from cap

 

I like the breakdown, though worth remembering that a few of those development contracts will be drafted players on 3 month student contracts, probably comparable to working full time for $15-16/hr for 12 weeks, and I expect the easily replaceable players to be on seasonal contracts 

Going from a slightly lower mark ($800k) I could see

1 top end at $100,000 full time

5 core players at $65,000 average full time= $325,000

5 full starters at $40,000x5= $200,000

3 rotational guys at what would be $30,000 but prorated to 9 months = $67,500

3 college draftees earning the equivalent of a full time student job at $15-16/hr but only for 3 months $7500x3= $22,500

3 guys out of L1O/PLSQ/Trials on 9 month contracts at similar wages $24,500x3= $73,500

1 mid season signing to replace an injury = $11,500

20-21 players is thin but not unreasonable. Any injuries after the college players leave would leave them short on the bench though, so the cap couldn't be like MLS where you don't get cap space back for injuries 

Edited by Complete Homer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it’s something similar to that.  1 million roster, 18+5 players

2 Foundational players @ 125k, 250k

5 core players @ 70k, 350k

6 rotation players @ 50k, 300k

5 squad players @ 40k, 200k

Balance 5 L1O, U sports guys on development contracts 125k

Thats about $1.2 million.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, baulderdash77 said:

I think it’s something similar to that.  1 million roster, 18+5 players

2 Foundational players @ 125k, 250k

5 core players @ 70k, 350k

6 rotation players @ 50k, 300k

5 squad players @ 40k, 200k

Balance 5 L1O, U sports guys on development contracts 125k

Thats about $1.2 million.

I am 100% against setting up these bureaucratically-driven tiers like MLS. It is totally unnecessary, and it does what no business budget ever does: establish random and arbitrary a priori parameters over and above a strict analysis of the business. Furthermore, it basically turns roster management into the work of notary publics. 

If I have X amount of money, and 24 on a roster, I am smart enough to divide it up. If I decide I want a parity squad, all power to me. If I decide I want one star to lead the team, the same. Maybe I want to put a bunch of young guys on a single year contract and given them a renewal for minutes or objetives. Maybe the entire roster could be paid below the cap, with the difference or part of it to be paid as a bonus for results, stipulated in the contract. There a scores of ways, and 95% of football clubs in the world employ them.

Most clubs in the world, without any such paper-pusher inspired categorisation of roster slots, do in fact set up types of tiering, and apply them; the tiers are defined as brackets, but they are simply concepts in the minds of the board, nothing more. Then, they shift up players up a tier who doing very well and are valued, or renew players who are on the edge of the starting 11 but at the same salary, or offer older vets a drop for renewal, considering the player is at the end of a career. They also make exceptions for exceptions (which CPL clubs could do by spending 85% of a cap and reserving the other 15% for a potential bigger signing).

This simple mental arithmetic is done by sports managers, working with the club board, and accounts and tax experts, and they have no trouble to figure out the numbers. 

The whole point of a salary cap, is to establish the terms by which a club can sort things out themselves, with just TWO key restrictions: overall amount paid to the entire roster over a season (usually with a prevision to go over  a certain limited amount in case of X number of injuries); and a minimum wage, which is conceived for an entire season, so could be paid in part if a contract is part of a season. In between those two limitations, let clubs figure it out.

So why do we insist on imitating American "Soccer Rosters for Dummies"?

Edited by Unnamed Trialist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am 100% against setting up these bureaucratically-driven tiers like MLS. It is totally unnecessary, and it does what no business budget ever does: establish random and arbitrary a priori parameters over and above a strict analysis of the business. Furthermore, it basically turns roster management into the work of notary publics. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying that these are hard tiers (aside from maybe the college development contracts), it's just a rough breakdown of the types of spending we might see

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

I don't think anyone is saying that these are hard tiers (aside from maybe the college development contracts), it's just a rough breakdown of the types of spending we might see

I appreciate what people are doing and saying by laying out tier ideas. But let each club do it their way. Don't set up these horrible categories like MLS. Just say hey,  you are not stupid: you figure it out. Just respect maximum cap and minimum wage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I appreciate what people are doing and saying by laying out tier ideas. But let each club do it their way. Don't set up these horrible categories like MLS. Just say hey,  you are not stupid: you figure it out. Just respect maximum cap and minimum wage.

Oy vey. We're just trying to parse out what the salary distribution might look like to give structure the discussion of what types of players we might see. 

Each club will do their own thing, idle speculation on a discussion board isn't an attempt to sway that. It's just discussion on a topic we are all over invested in

Edited by Complete Homer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Oy vey. We're just trying to parse out what the salary distribution might look like to give structure the discussion of what types of players we might see. 

Each club will do their own thing, idle speculation on a discussion board isn't an attempt to sway that. It's just discussion on a topic we are all over invested in

No, actually: some here are seriously advocating to set up rules, like the convoluted MLS system. And they are imagining very complex ways to essentially discriminate, limit, impede, place stumbling blocks, and generally treat clubs like idiots. And I am against that. 

Hey, here's idle speculation of the sort you say is what we are really doing: divide a cap of a million by 23, that gives you 43,000  and a bit each. Do it as a cooperative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll see your Oy vey and add a UGGHHH!!  Everyone is just trying to parse out what a 1 or 1.5million dollar roster might look like.  I havnt seen anyone actually advocating tiers etc.  

On 10/27/2018 at 10:00 AM, jpg75 said:

Senior Roster (18 players, 50% foreign limit) $1.5M

4 × 150 = 600k                                                                                 150 would get you non starter MLS level guys (4)

4× 100 = 400k                                                                                  100 would be end of the MLS bench U-23 or high end USL (4)

10 × 40-60 = 500k                                                                            40-60 would be regular USL types (10)

Min. 40k salary, max. 200k

Development Roster (5 players, CDN U23)

5 × 25k = 125k exempt from cap

 

For example, JPG75's breakdown for 1.5million would be a very decent first year team.  Probably higher than I would have expected, which is why I sort of believe the under 1million, but higher than 500g kind of window.  I agree with UT, we dont want to stifle the better situated clubs too much, just to accommodate the few that are in tougher situations.  But I dont want a top heavy league with 2-3 big spenders  and 5-6 perennial also rans either.  I hope they work something out that brings up the low end salaries and doesnt let the top end go completely crazy.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/28/2018 at 9:58 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

No, actually: some here are seriously advocating to set up rules, like the convoluted MLS system. And they are imagining very complex ways to essentially discriminate, limit, impede, place stumbling blocks, and generally treat clubs like idiots. And I am against that. 

 

Judging from the info out there the clubs are the ones driving the discussions about creating some of these rules.

I'm hoping like everyone else that they will not go the full MLS route with so many salary cap rules and player movement restrictions the fans can't even understand how the system works.  I'm also hoping most of the discussion, ie tiers of players, is aimed at finding a fair way of divvying up players in year 1 and not in perpetuity.

But imagining they were going to go the full European route is a bit naive considering the unique challenges of running a pro soccer league in this country.

Not to mention that MLS, with its frustrating excess of central leadership, has both survived and thrived, while NASL, attempting a more open system,  joined the graveyard of NA soccer leagues.

As mentioned elsewhere, we are not here advocating rules, we are trying to have a little fun guessing what rules will be put in place, because we know they are being discussed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the early years, the Cap has definitely helped in keeping costs down. And it still does if you don't have or want to spend money, you can go through a season with 4 mil operational costs. That's nothing compared to other Major League franchises!

But eventually what you see is that there are clubs who want to spend more and have an advantage. So they invent the Designated Player and then they expand en then you can have three. But instead of going to a more capitalist way und FIFA-regulations like in the rest of the world, they keep making up new rules. 

So I do see the advantage of a Cap, but in the long run roster rules should move more towards the rest of the world and less towards layers and layers of rules like in MLS. If that means some teams are going to dominate, so be it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still favor a cap with a luxury tax.

Don't hold back ownership willing and able to assemble a great roster.

Use the tax for:

  • help teams that are trying to break even or struggling
  • Put the tax in a "stadium" fund to help build and upgrade CPL stadiums. Better stadiums helps teams drawing more fans

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Judging from the info out there the clubs are the ones driving the discussions about creating some of these rules.

I'm hoping like everyone else that they will not go the full MLS route with so many salary cap rules and player movement restrictions the fans can't even understand how the system works.  I'm also hoping most of the discussion, ie tiers of players, is aimed at finding a fair way of divvying up players in year 1 and not in perpetuity.

But imagining they were going to go the full European route is a bit naive considering the unique challenges of running a pro soccer league in this country.

Not to mention that MLS, with its frustrating excess of central leadership, has both survived and thrived, while NASL, attempting a more open system,  joined the graveyard of NA soccer leagues.

NASL 2.0 problems were/are not the open system it had re rosters/salary but largely a combination of things like the USSF PLS which forced bringing in poor owners, competition from USL when their deal with MLS to house their reserve/farm teams and affiliates spurred expansion when NASL needed to expand, and mis-management.

For CPL I'd agree that a luxury tax should be implemented and higher spending clubs have the option to bring in a marque player or two.

I don't want to see a dull, manufactured parity of clubs across the league.If a club or two wants to spend above the cap and pay a luxury tax for a player or two then give them that freedom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...