Possible CPL Salary Cap Discussion

[CDNFootballer]

The discussion was player wages re the 750K.

[Ansem]

I personally think that the salary cap is still being decided.

The logic of not talking about it is to avoid having to pay above market value for domestic players who, honestly, have not warranted being paid above it.

You throw a number out there and agents will be quick to do the math, see that their client are among the best available at this time and negotiate above MV.

I think they sign the domestic guys first. Then they go international....then they release the cap.

Some teams might not go hard there but others might.

Just saying, I'm not surprise the league won't say what it is quite yet

[youllneverwalkalone]

I think "the cap" is a bit of a red herring. We're paying professional ticket prices for the facilities, the app, the marketing, and hopefully the streaming service. These things are well beyond USL. $29K salaries in 2019 is fine because the whole point of this league is to catch players who have fallen through the cracks. This salary level will go up once the cap ex is proved sustainable. And it will be a great place to blood the 16-19 year olds who are off to better things.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

13 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I think "the cap" is a bit of a red herring. We're paying professional ticket prices for the facilities, the app, the marketing, and hopefully the streaming service. These things are well beyond USL...

Which of these do you think is well beyond USL? USL provides broadcast level live webstreams on youtube complete with commentary and is required to have 5000 seat stadia at a minimum for USSF D2 sanctioning. The two setups are probably going to be comparable on those in other words. Both leagues will no doubt be doing extensive marketing so you are probably left with the app at that point. Not sure what USL does on that.

Edited December 15, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[yellowsweatygorilla]

I just realize that it's probably in CPL's best interest (purely in the area of players negotiations) to spread rumours of a lower cap - especially in context of a pool of players (Canadians) that they won't face much competition for. 

[youllneverwalkalone]

20 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Which of these do you think is well beyond USL? USL provides broadcast level live webstreams on youtube complete with commentary and is required to have 5000 seat stadia at a minimum for USSF D2 sanctioning. The two setups are probably going to be comparable on those in other words. Both leagues will no doubt be doing extensive marketing so you are probably left with the app at that point. Not sure what USL does on that.

Stadiums (IG, Tim's, hopefully Ottawa), web site, app, kits, quality of backroom staff all far superior.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, yellowsweatygorilla said:

I just realize that it's probably in CPL's best interest (purely in the area of players negotiations) to spread rumours of a lower cap - especially in context of a pool of players (Canadians) that they won't face much competition for. 

Possibly but if you go back to the first half of the year they were doing the opposite of that and from what I remember were talking up the possibility of significantly higher salaries than $35k in media reports. If we accept that number as valid, something seems to have changed around the time that the team announcements were made around the time of the World Cup, which is also when the Fury appear to have bailed out on being team #8. My guess and it is pure speculation is that getting FC Edmonton on board required a downscaling of the preferred business plan.

[Complete Homer]

The salary figures were all estimates based on Rollins' early reporting (not necessarily saying he was wrong, but figures from 2015/2016 were probably just ballparks), or calculated from Clanachan's 10 year expenditure figure. I doubt we will get a real answer, but the otr chatter seems to reflect that 35k number, which to be honest isn't even that far off of the 40-60k estimate before

Whether anything changed is hard to know, but regardless I think we can expect a gradual upward trend if things continue as is. 

If Calgary sells out (obviously a big if but it sounds like sales are strong so far), my rough figures of the Calgary ticket sale revenue is looking to be somewhere in the 5.5M range*, before we get into any kind of sponsorships, merch, concessions, TV money, etc.

Prudently they are probably starting low but I wouldn't think a 1+ million cap is far off if they can come out of the gate strong 

*Assuming that the average ticket price in each of the "troops", "battalion", and "officers" sections are the average of the top and bottom ticket prices in their bracket.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Complete Homer

[PhillyJawn-guy]

How about setting up the CPL with "simplified" MLS budget rules:

1 flat salary cap for all clubs - let's call that the FIXED COST

then a set of allocations for each club based on performance during the season and can be bought/sold/traded similar to MLS, but instead of TAM, GAM, and a bunch of other nonsense just have 1 simple allocation money - let's call that the VARIABLE COST

if any club wants to still spend more than cap + AM, then charge luxury tax

[Ams1984]

4 hours ago, PhillyJawn-guy said:

How about setting up the CPL with "simplified" MLS budget rules:

1 flat salary cap for all clubs - let's call that the FIXED COST

then a set of allocations for each club based on performance during the season and can be bought/sold/traded similar to MLS, but instead of TAM, GAM, and a bunch of other nonsense just have 1 simple allocation money - let's call that the VARIABLE COST

if any club wants to still spend more than cap + AM, then charge luxury tax

No!!!!!!!!!! Ha ha... listen, lo get the rationale of what you’re proposing, but let’s just keep it really simple. The less MLS style shit the better. I don’t even like (though I accept the need for) a salary cap. That being said, I’d rather a variable cap based on percentages of revenue. In other words, all clubs can spend X% of revenue on player salaries. That way, if one market is kicking ass, it won’t be limited to the strength of the weakest market. 

[PhillyJawn-guy]

1 hour ago, Ams1984 said:

No!!!!!!!!!! Ha ha... listen, lo get the rationale of what you’re proposing, but let’s just keep it really simple. The less MLS style shit the better. I don’t even like (though I accept the need for) a salary cap. That being said, I’d rather a variable cap based on percentages of revenue. In other words, all clubs can spend X% of revenue on player salaries. That way, if one market is kicking ass, it won’t be limited to the strength of the weakest market. 

That's why I proposed a set of variable allocation money. And you're allowed to stay below the cap for smaller markets and cheap owners. The allocation money can be based on revenue, assets, league standings, etc.

[masster]

Isn't a salary cap illegal if it is not collectively bargained?

[Initial B]

Not sure, but I'm hoping that the CPL will at least follow the Financial Fair Play rules that were implemented by UEFA.

[ted]

5 hours ago, masster said:

Isn't a salary cap illegal if it is not collectively bargained?

Collective bargaining only applies when a group of employees form a union. I hope the players do form a union, but there aren't enough of them yet to do so.

Until and unless a collective agreement is reached, the employer(s) can pay any wage rate they wish so long as it meets minimum wage standards.

[Toronto Ruffrider]

On 12/15/2018 at 4:30 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

People accept this CanPL is higher than USL thing on here as something akin to an article of faith, but the question to ponder at that point would be why are the Fury so adamant that they don't want to be a CanPL team if that's really true? I don't think Rollins was necessarily wrong on the $750k thing because it has been made clear at various points that coaching and front office staff will also be subject to a cap and a player-coach would count against both, so he may be quoting a combined rather than a players only number.

No one has said what currency the cap is in, so for all we know it could be $750k CAD, which would translate into $562.5k USD. I could envision that applying to players only, with a separate cap for management.

[masster]

29 minutes ago, ted said:

Collective bargaining only applies when a group of employees form a union. I hope the players do form a union, but there aren't enough of them yet to do so.

Until and unless a collective agreement is reached, the employer(s) can pay any wage rate they wish so long as it meets minimum wage standards.

That is all correct as far as I understand it. But in addition, if different businesses agree to set a cap on wages, is that not collusion? A cap on wages is allowed when collectively bargained, but when there is no union to bargain with, I don't think businesses are allowed to agree and set one. 

I am pretty sure that is the case in the US. I'm not sure if it is exactly the same in Canada. I am not claiming to be an expert, I am just asking a question. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 12/15/2018 at 5:22 PM, Ansem said:

I personally think that the salary cap is still being decided.

The logic of not talking about it is to avoid having to pay above market value for domestic players who, honestly, have not warranted being paid above it.

You throw a number out there and agents will be quick to do the math, see that their client are among the best available at this time and negotiate above MV.

I think they sign the domestic guys first. Then they go international....then they release the cap.

Some teams might not go hard there but others might.

Just saying, I'm not surprise the league won't say what it is quite yet

I think on the basis of that Bunbury interview on the Montreal CPL thread that you are right: if you announce it then you encourage speculation in relation to it, and then a player starts to think he is maybe above cap average material. And most agents, as you say, will shoot above average. Which would put you over the cap unless you convince half a squad to sign "below the average". 

Later on, this will all work itself out, as players come to accept where they are in the scale.

I wonder if contracts will be registered, and even guaranteed, by the league. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Unnamed Trialist

[ted]

1 hour ago, masster said:

That is all correct as far as I understand it. But in addition, if different businesses agree to set a cap on wages, is that not collusion?

Did you miss the part where the league is a single entity? If they are like MLS, all wages be paid out of the central league offices, thus the league is the employer.

Collusion is between different businesses fixing the price. Collusion would be different gas companies all charging the exact same price for a liter of gas...

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 hours ago, Toronto Ruffrider said:

No one has said what currency the cap is in, so for all we know it could be $750k CAD, which would translate into $562.5k USD. I could envision that applying to players only, with a separate cap for management.

That possibility had crossed my mind as well. The first place I saw the 500k thing was from an FCE podcaster on reddit. Not sure there would be any need to bring US currency into the equation there unlike in Ottawa.

[masster]

11 hours ago, ted said:

Did you miss the part where the league is a single entity? If they are like MLS, all wages be paid out of the central league offices, thus the league is the employer.

Collusion is between different businesses fixing the price. Collusion would be different gas companies all charging the exact same price for a liter of gas...

We don't know if that is the case. From everything that was speculated previously, the CPL was copying MLS in terms of setting up CSB, but not in terms of single entity.

[Ams1984]

16 hours ago, masster said:

That is all correct as far as I understand it. But in addition, if different businesses agree to set a cap on wages, is that not collusion? A cap on wages is allowed when collectively bargained, but when there is no union to bargain with, I don't think businesses are allowed to agree and set one. 

I am pretty sure that is the case in the US. I'm not sure if it is exactly the same in Canada. I am not claiming to be an expert, I am just asking a question. 

It’s not really like that though... there is likely one business (the league), not multiple businesses (the clubs) officially setting wage maximums. The clubs are the ones being limited to maximum salary expenditures as a term of league membership, and its highly unlikely that the clubs have ‘colluded’ to create homogenous individual salaries for each player by type. It’s an overall cap, that’s fine. 

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

20 hours ago, ted said:

Did you miss the part where the league is a single entity? If they are like MLS, all wages be paid out of the central league offices, thus the league is the employer.

Collusion is between different businesses fixing the price. Collusion would be different gas companies all charging the exact same price for a liter of gas...

They have publicly stated that players will be under contract of the teams, not the league. I can’t remember where I saw that though. Might have been at an fc Edmonton meeting...

[rob.notenboom]

52 minutes ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

They have publicly stated that players will be under contract of the teams, not the league. I can’t remember where I saw that though. Might have been at an fc Edmonton meeting...

Yes I recall that as well. 

[Cblake]

Don't you think the salary guidelines are in the place if players are being signed at this point. Especially if agents are contacting teams regarding their clients and exploring playing opportunies for them. If I am someone looking at a USL offer or something overseas and thinking about maybe coming home to play in the CPL, salary will likely play a big part of it. But lifestyle, family, post career plans will likely play a part in it too. 

[CDNFootballer]

The CPL player salary guidelines must be set, you have clubs already saying they have quite a few players signed and are just waiting to make announcements, they're not doing so without things being completely set.

Likely we will not know officially the league's cap, they don't need to announce it and like many other leagues will keep salary specifics confidential.