SpursFlu Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) Every business in the world has a salary cap. It's called a budget. I like the idea of each team having a budget that they determine and enforce based on their reality. As a fan I don't want to know what it is, I dont want to hear about it I haven't heard a single person say I can't get in to the CPL because they haven't communicated to me a salary cap. How am I suppose to have fun at the match if I don't know what the salary cap is? Edited August 14, 2019 by SpursFlu Ams1984 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said: Every business in the world has a salary cap. It's called a budget. I like the idea of each team having a budget that they determine and enforce based on their reality. As a fan I don't want to know what it is, I dont want to hear about it That's the major difference though. A budget is determined by the success of the club and by internal decisions on how to spend available funds. Those things have no effect in a salary capped league, so you end up with a bunch of clones that rely on each other for survival. It's difficult to build a rivalry when you need your opponent to succeed just as much as you need to succeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, SpursFlu said: Every business in the world has a salary cap. It's called a budget. I like the idea of each team having a budget that they determine and enforce based on their reality. As a fan I don't want to know what it is, I dont want to hear about it I haven't heard a single person say I can't get in to the CPL because they haven't communicated to me a salary cap. How am I suppose to have fun at the match if I don't know what the salary cap is? But as sports geeks we are inundated with it. Especially soccer where you dont normally trade players. You can sell them to a team across the globe and dollar figures are attached to everyone.Years ago we would say Guy Lafleur isnt worth Mike bossy, now we know exactly what players are worth and how much the team pays let alone what the wages are. 12 minutes ago, Aird25 said: That's the major difference though. A budget is determined by the success of the club and by internal decisions on how to spend available funds. Those things have no effect in a salary capped league, so you end up with a bunch of clones that rely on each other for survival. It's difficult to build a rivalry when you need your opponent to succeed just as much as you need to succeed Every league relies on the other teams for survival. Check the new club thread, people are advocating no franchise fee because it might scare off or hurt expansion teams. Try bringing in investors if some teams are spending 5-10mil on wages and some are spending 1mil. Out of control spending trying to win can kill a league in no time flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, Bison44 said: Check the new club thread, people are advocating no franchise fee because it might scare off or hurt expansion teams. Try bringing in investors if some teams are spending 5-10mil on wages and some are spending 1mil. Sorry, I really don't follow this reasoning. You don't often have teams declining promotion, despite having to face teams with a much higher budget. Yet there are hundreds of teams in the states that don't compete in the MLS because they can't afford to buy their way into the league. I completely agree that out of control spending can sink a team, but nobody is advocating for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 What do you think no cap is going to do? Promote fiscal responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bison44 said: What do you think no cap is going to do? Promote fiscal responsibility? I imagine there might be one or two examples in world football of clubs managing their own finances Ams1984 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Bison44 said: But as sports geeks we are inundated with it. Especially soccer where you dont normally trade players. You can sell them to a team across the globe and dollar figures are attached to everyone.Years ago we would say Guy Lafleur isnt worth Mike bossy, now we know exactly what players are worth and how much the team pays let alone what the wages are. Every league relies on the other teams for survival. Check the new club thread, people are advocating no franchise fee because it might scare off or hurt expansion teams. Try bringing in investors if some teams are spending 5-10mil on wages and some are spending 1mil. Out of control spending trying to win can kill a league in no time flat. I'm not advocating zero information regarding player salary so people can't play along at home. I'm also not for a wild west winner takes all capitalistic model. I think the salary cap is so low, why make it a big deal. Detractors will just use the small number as a way to denigrate the league. I also don't like a team creating far more revenue than another having to play by the same same rules. Especially with the nature of football being that we are competing on all levels with the rest of the world not just CPL. At a certain point teams need to be making their own decisions on cost. What if Forge make champions league? They're suppose to spend the same on players as York9. How does this benefit the league? Just say the cap is 800k. They could bring in just say Simeon Jackson and a quality Central American but they can't because their salary would be at 825k. How is that good for the league? How is that a smart business decision? I just think you need some flexibility Edited August 14, 2019 by SpursFlu youllneverwalkalone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 14 hours ago, fil said: Instead of bringing a DP rule, would prefer to see the league help in some way the bottom feeding teams (Valour/Pacific) to increase competitiveness. Ouch! I think, "bottom feeding" is a bit harsh for the first season of operations. All PFC really need to be competitive is an increase to the salary cap, or at least a rule that allows us to not count Marcel's salary while he is out injured long-term. If we could bring in one or two players to cover for his absence we would be more competitive. It's not like we are getting blown out every game. We are showing our youth and naivete on the back line and a solid, veteran defender would make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaFan123 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Aird25 said: So you're saying it's a competitive advantage to differentiate ourselves from MLS by copying traditional leagues? Why? I would honestly prefer if the league moved away from a salary cap and a avoided a DP rule. I think they make for a much less honest competition. But having different roster regulations from MLS is not the reason that Canadians should support this league. We should support the league because it's ours and because of the leagues commitment to Canadian players, coaches, fans, cities... Because traditionalists represent a significant segment of the football supporter market in Canada. There are even American supporters turned on to our league for this reason. MLS comparatively to the whole football support in Canada attracts a very small segment. If you go after that same segment you’re going to lose. red card and toontownman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) My personal opinion is that if you're thinking of allowing DPs, might as well jack up the salary cap so teams can build more even and deeper teams. We're seeing what having to manage the Canadian Championship and CONCACAF league does to those rosters. Just having 1 DP doesn't do much, especially if that player gets hurt...you're back to square one... Instead of a DP just increase the cap to $2.5 or $3 millions instead and let the teams capable of spending do so. Those who can't will live within their means...I believe that's the whole point of "screening ownership". Making sure you get the ones who are fiscally responsible and will manage within their mean without going bankrupt because they went after Giroud or something Edited August 14, 2019 by Ansem ted, youllneverwalkalone, CanadaFan123 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpursFlu Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 I agree. There is talk of doing away with the dp rules in MLS because its turned in to a farce. It's just an accounting Olympics for the front office but there is not a lot stoping teams from doing whatever they like as long as they jump thru a bunch of silly hoops. If you say CPL you can spend an extra 1 million on 1 player. Why not just say you can spend 1 million more on 4 players? The only difference is 1 million on 4 players would make for a much better league Ams1984, CanadaFan123, red card and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reign Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Yup. Don’t want to see a DP rule. Just increase the cap in general. If a team wants to spend all that increase on a “star player” so be it. If another team spends it on 3 depth players so be it. If a team doesn’t spend it at all so be it. Let the management groups figure out what is best for their own clubs. johnyb, m-g-williams and Rintaran 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDNFootballer Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Maybe a luxury tax for clubs going over the cap would work well, tax gets funneled to the other clubs in the league. Not a fan of the boring manufactured parity like MLS largely has. Stanley and Cheeta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 In retrospect... -Forge having won a round in CONCACAF League, played a round in VCup plus dealing with league games -Cavalry having played the most games in VCup and league games while coming up short against Montreal missing (Browne, Camargo, Northover, Ledgerwood, Waterman) -York9 being so close of upsetting Montreal You have to think that some ownership will look at this and think that a few extra quality pieces could have got them over the edge. What do you think happens? A) The league & teams stay the course with whatever cap raise they had planned B)Owners pushes the league to raise the cap substantially and the league says yes C)Owners pushes the league to raise the cap significantly and the league meets them halfway D)The league stays the course frustrating teams in their cap demands. E)The league sees a window to grab the V Cup and make deep runs in CONCACAF League sooner than expected and introduce Designated Players + Cap increase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 I think that without Pro-Rel, you need a cap to prevent some owners from screwing the pooch on acquisitions. With no cap if one team spends itself into an untenable situation, they'll get relegated to the next division where they can rebuild their finances. With no lower division safety net then that team would go under, introducing instability into the professional pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Not sure how in the loop Gattas should be assumed to be given he needed a translator to do an interview on Onesoccer recently. If they are adding a marquee player next season to use the Australian rather than the MLS terminology, it's probably as it has been elsewhere part of a compromise between the owners who want a low cap and those who want to be able to splurge a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 I think that the owners must think that a marquee signing will bring in more spectators. I think they are wrong, what fans want are a good stadium relatively close to a lively part of town, a good game atmosphere, decent to good results, some connection to local players--a DP at this level, especially, where you are probably not going to ever get anyone with a higher profile that De Jong or Edgar, really makes little sense. For me it is just owners not analyzing properly why they don't get more fans out, not doing all they can to get them out, and then jumping onto a "quick" solution. But hey, it is easier to throw 200 thousand at a player than spend a quarter of that on youth club or family marketing. youllneverwalkalone, The Real Marc, ted and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Not sure how in the loop Gattas should be assumed to be given he needed a translator to do an interview on Onesoccer recently. If they are adding a marquee player next season to use the Australian rather than the MLS terminology, it's probably as it has been elsewhere part of a compromise between the owners who want a low cap and those who want to be able to splurge a bit. I think precisely because he has an agent filling him in on things, because he does not understand, that maybe he is hearing more. Also, he likely was not told or did not understand that he probably should not have made those statements, probably the most revealing comments by a player about the league all year. PS he's a nice player, good signing for the league. Edited August 15, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: I think that the owners must think that a marquee signing will bring in more spectators. I think they are wrong, what fans want are a good stadium relatively close to a lively part of town, a good game atmosphere, decent to good results, some connection to local players--a DP at this level, especially, where you are probably not going to ever get anyone with a higher profile that De Jong or Edgar, really makes little sense. For me it is just owners not analyzing properly why they don't get more fans out, not doing all they can to get them out, and then jumping onto a "quick" solution. But hey, it is easier to throw 200 thousand at a player than spend a quarter of that on youth club or family marketing. I respect your opinion, but just to play devil's advocate, the DP rule was an undoubted success in MLS. If they see what the DP rule did for MLS, they could see it as a very simple way to boost spectators and fan interest. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Given the ticket prices, some of which are bordering on insane, I think the attendance this season has been wildly successful. Immediately behind Forge are Odense BK on the world first division attendance ranking per Transfermarkt. FM estimates their payroll to be $6.9m CAD. Their most expensive season ticket looks to be about $300 CAD, barely more than the cheapest Forge seat! The league should be focused on non-gate revenues. If they need a $1m a year player to land a $2-3m per year shirt sponsor, then I guess I'll take it. Realistically, I'd like to see the squads expanded to 27-28, have a minimum that's a living wage, and have enough budget to bring home the Stanese, Zanatta, Straith's of the world. I think this could be done for about 1.5m. ted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: I think that the owners must think that a marquee signing will bring in more spectators. I think they are wrong, what fans want are a good stadium relatively close to a lively part of town, a good game atmosphere, decent to good results, some connection to local players--a DP at this level, especially, where you are probably not going to ever get anyone with a higher profile that De Jong or Edgar, really makes little sense. For me it is just owners not analyzing properly why they don't get more fans out, not doing all they can to get them out, and then jumping onto a "quick" solution. But hey, it is easier to throw 200 thousand at a player than spend a quarter of that on youth club or family marketing. Nailed it. Mostly. Stadia are really outside of most clubs control. Practically and financially. If Valour weren't playing out of IGF there wouldn't be a Valour so, with that example, you just have to take the good with the bad. New markets may find themselves in similar circumstances. It wouldn't hurt to maybe work a little harder with what you've got, working to adapt it into more of a footie experience, even if it means spending some money. Or not spending money.. Could be something as simple as not trying to recreate a CFL or NHL experience for the soccer crowd or the more complicated effort of reaching out to the local footie community. Lofty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 On 8/14/2019 at 3:37 PM, Reign said: Yup. Don’t want to see a DP rule. Just increase the cap in general. If a team wants to spend all that increase on a “star player” so be it. If another team spends it on 3 depth players so be it. If a team doesn’t spend it at all so be it. Let the management groups figure out what is best for their own clubs. ^^^This... so far I don think the lack of "big names" has hurt the league at all, except maybe with some hardcores that were dreaming about getting favs to their hometown (cough cough forlan). Let the cap and the league grow organically. The more exemptions, DP, TAM GAM etc, the less playing time for younger players and you choke off any good you were doing developing your own CDN stars. johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, lazlo_80 said: I respect your opinion, but just to play devil's advocate, the DP rule was an undoubted success in MLS. If they see what the DP rule did for MLS, they could see it as a very simple way to boost spectators and fan interest. I think you're over simplifying. A lot of things came together to finally get MLS "over the hump" as it were, and David Beckham and the DP rule were a part of it all, but I think it was way more complicated than just that. Seriously. I think MLS coming to Toronto, and the eye opening experience that it was, alone did more good for MLS than any other single factor. TFC, was instantly a snapshot of everything MLS HQ was advocating for in order to outgrow what MLS had become to that point. MLS was looking to move towards soccer specific stadium, urban locations, and a more big-tent appeal towards footie fans. Overnight, every existing MLS market looked at Toronto and asked "why don't we have that?". Overnight, every potential MLS market looked at Toronto and said "why can't we have that?". To my mind at least, looking in from the outside, the DP rule tried to build off of all that. And in it's time and place it absolutely did. For sure. But A afforded an opportunity for B. But I'm not sure B can transplant well into another time and place in quite the same way. I think that is something important to keep in mind for the current CPL braintrust. Even if they're considering a DP option on a more modest scale. Lofty and johnyb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 I'd say the DP rule worked out a lot better for David Beckham personally than MLS as a whole. 😎 nfitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, lazlo_80 said: I respect your opinion, but just to play devil's advocate, the DP rule was an undoubted success in MLS. If they see what the DP rule did for MLS, they could see it as a very simple way to boost spectators and fan interest. Fair enough--but because CPL DPs would not be making more money than MLS journeymen, and so would not be anywhere near the prestige or name recognition of a Rooney or Pirlo, you'd be spending money that would not get you what you want. Then you would pale in comparison to MLS, which is precisely the scenario you do not want to set up for the naysayers. Answer me this: who were Cincinnati's DPs last year, in USL1, with 40,000 fans some games,? Cincinnati were led by Emmanuel Ledesma, leading scorer and league leader in assists. Are you telling me the fans came out to watch Emmanuel Ledesma? Edited August 16, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist DrummingInMySleep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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