CPL General

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

The CMNT vs CSB spat is still rumbling along:

 

[SpursFlu]

The big difference is people who don't know crap will defend the cmnt online and then go back to not supporting anything to do with Canadian soccer and real footie fans in this country will go back to supporting the CPL

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

18 hours ago, Aird25 said:

This seemed relevant 

Great map, appreciate it.

Bournmouth/Poole is over half a million, was looking at it the other day. 

Also paying attention to Cádiz--was in Andalucia last week-- where there are many small municipalities they draw from, San Fernando, El Puerto de Santa María, the metro area is pushing 200,000; Jérez is 10km away. Villareal draws from the provincial capital, Castellón, which is a larger adjoining municipality whose team used to be in top flight (Canadian owned as well). These are all mitigating factors, no doubt.

Girona is a small city, true, but the province has near a million and lots of tourism. Troyes in France and Girona are both owned by City group, philosophy of a smaller town with a modest support, totally unlike having NYCFC.

We should take into account that some teams represent the region or province and their draw is beyond the municipality. Greater Victoria has what, 14 municipalities?

Edited February 11, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Kingston]

19 hours ago, Aird25 said:

This seemed relevant 

That is a fun map.  Thanks for sharing.

I'm not entirely sure it is actually relevant, though.  Yes, it does show that under very different cultural and economic circumstances it is possible to run D1 teams in much smaller cities than we are trying to do here.  Those aren't the circumstances that pertain here, though.  It's sort of like me publishing a map of those same countries showing which twenty five cities would be big enough to support an NHL team based on the fact that Winnipeg does it with a population of 800 000.

Still a cool map and a fun thought experiment for Canada.

[PaulV]

When you can bus everywhere in your league and have minimal travel costs, it opens up a lot of possibilities. Also you can piggyback off of the big clubs to get broadcast revenue dollars.

[brianjc]

On 2/9/2023 at 4:48 PM, Ansem said:

Communauté Montreal Metropolitain

• CF Montreal D1
• 9 clubs in PLSQ : (2X) Laval, Blainville, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Longueuil, CF Montreal reserves, Mount Royal, Saint-Laurent, Saint-Hubert

--> Soccer Quebec said they wanted to professionalize PLSQ to also attract loans from higher tiers and would look into a pro/rel like Ontario. They've received lots of interests for new clubs

-->Laurentides, Laval, Monteregie and Lanaudiere have good coverage. A CPL club is needed on Montreal Island and Laval should be left alone. West Island could use a D3 club for Anglo-Montreal

If a CPL club is placed on the Island of Montreal, the only places I could see it work is at CEPSUM or Jarry Park(modular stadium), and they would need a different color scheme  from CF Montreal.   CEPSUM has potential as it is at metro and REM station Edouard Montpetit.   Jarry Park is close to Metros Jarry (orange line) and de Castelnau (blue line)

Just a thought.

 

[EnigMattic1]

7 hours ago, brianjc said:

If a CPL club is placed on the Island of Montreal, the only places I could see it work is at CEPSUM or Jarry Park(modular stadium), and they would need a different color scheme  from CF Montreal.   CEPSUM has potential as it is at metro and REM station Edouard Montpetit.   Jarry Park is close to Metros Jarry (orange line) and de Castelnau (blue line)

Just a thought.

 

I remember someone saying that a team from Quebec should use a similar colour scheme to the one that the Quebec Nordiques used. I liked that idea.

[shermanator]

Saturday night the Foot Soldiers held their first 2023 meet up. It's interesting to contrast the mood at that event with what you read on social media.

In person, everyone was jovial and excited for the upcoming season while acknowledging that there are some things to work out for the game to grow in this country. While on social media, everything around Canadian soccer is a dumpster fire and we are about to engage in an epic battle of domestic league vs national teams which might spell the end of this league. 

I will say that the "minor league" comment from the players towards this league has pissed off a lot of people. People who supported the MNT when they were losing to the likes of Martinique and Mauritania. People who supported the MNT when 6000 people showed up in Montreal to watching Davies' debut. People who watched the MNT play a stinker against Honduras mere days after refusing to play against Panama. It's a comment that we can get over, but a real unnecessary and divisive comment that won't help grow the game in this country.
 

 

[Metro]

23 hours ago, shermanator said:

Saturday night the Foot Soldiers held their first 2023 meet up. It's interesting to contrast the mood at that event with what you read on social media.

In person, everyone was jovial and excited for the upcoming season while acknowledging that there are some things to work out for the game to grow in this country. While on social media, everything around Canadian soccer is a dumpster fire and we are about to engage in an epic battle of domestic league vs national teams which might spell the end of this league. 

I will say that the "minor league" comment from the players towards this league has pissed off a lot of people. People who supported the MNT when they were losing to the likes of Martinique and Mauritania. People who supported the MNT when 6000 people showed up in Montreal to watching Davies' debut. People who watched the MNT play a stinker against Honduras mere days after refusing to play against Panama. It's a comment that we can get over, but a real unnecessary and divisive comment that won't help grow the game in this country.
 

 

Great to see!

I think this "minor league" comment will blow over once saner heads prevail, but still very disappointing.

[SpursFlu]

It would be fun for the CPL to rebrand MLS

Minor League Soccer

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

On 2/14/2023 at 6:11 PM, Metro said:

Great to see!

I think this "minor league" comment will blow over once saner heads prevail, but still very disappointing.

Not the most sensible way to phrase the press release but I think that's just the way most people probably genuinely do view the league at this point.

It would be a different story if there were a few regular CMNT callups playing for CanPL clubs and that was no doubt the expectation of what would be happening by now on the part of the people who negotiated the deal when the CSB deal was signed. They really did seem to believe the narrative about Canadian players being denied opportunities in MLS, which had a small element of truth to it but was being massively overblown.

If you use another national association's league structure you have to live with the fact that they set the rules. The question then is whether the positives that are being derived from having access to it outweigh the negatives. Having a league that can sustain three fully funded pro level academies is the obvious positive and that pathway provides a significant portion of the players who wind up in CanPL.

Never been clear to me why so many people don't understand that it's a good situation when you can have your cake and eat it too.

Edited February 15, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Kingston]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It would be a different story if there were a few regular CMNT callups playing for CanPL clubs and that was no doubt the expectation of what would be happening by now on the part of the people who negotiated the deal when the CSB deal was signed.

I'm not convinced that is the case.  I doubt anyone really expected CPL players to be getting regular national team time by now.

Looking forward, I don't actually expect to see active CPL players showing up for the national team any time soon.  If anything, I expect we'll even be seeing fewer active MLS players as more guys move to Europe.

I do expect CPL alumni and more MLS alumni.  That's all a good thing as we take advantage of the development pathway offered by our CPL and MLS teams.

[Metro]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not the most sensible way to phrase the press release but I think that's just the way most people probably genuinely do view the league at this point.

It would be a different story if there were a few regular CMNT callups playing for CanPL clubs and that was no doubt the expectation of what would be happening by now on the part of the people who negotiated the deal when the CSB deal was signed. They really did seem to believe the narrative about Canadian players being denied opportunities in MLS, which had a small element of truth to it but was being massively overblown.

If you use another national association's league structure you have to live with the fact they they set the rules. The question then is whether the positives that are being derived from having access to it outweigh the negatives. Having a league that can sustain three fully funded pro level academies is the obvious positive and that pathway provides a significant portion of the players who wind up in CanPL.

Never been clear to me why so many people don't understand that it's a good situation when you can have your cake and east it too.

The players aren't "most people" though.  And they just as much as anyone have been arguing for the importance of a division 1 league in Canada.

It all speaks to their short-sightedness, IMHO.  When they retire and possibly prefer to remain in the profession as a coach, official, etc., it'd be nice if the CPL is there for them as an option.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

I'm not convinced that is the case.  I doubt anyone really expected CPL players to be getting regular national team time by now.

Looking forward, I don't actually expect to see active CPL players showing up for the national team any time soon.  If anything, I expect we'll even be seeing fewer active MLS players as more guys move to Europe.

I do expect CPL alumni and more MLS alumni.  That's all a good thing as we take advantage of the development pathway offered by our CPL and MLS teams.

It depends on how the league grows, how it stiffens up, if it integrates a younger development level or ties in tighter with strengthened L1s, and raises its level.

Also its salaries. 

For example, Croatia had players in the Croatian league playing for them. And not just some kids ready to transfer out, older players. Normally you'd say that is far too low a level for a WC semi-finalist, but it's Croatia. Their best clubs are not ready to compete for titles in Europe, they are a long way off, but they produce quality. Because they are part of a quality system. 

We get CPL working at this kind of solid quality level, which I could see for 2030, the possibility of calling in an active CPL player is not so crazy.

[Aird25]

23 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It depends on how the league grows, how it stiffens up, if it integrates a younger development level or ties in tighter with strengthened L1s, and raises its level.

Also its salaries. 

For example, Croatia had players in the Croatian league playing for them. And not just some kids ready to transfer out, older players. Normally you'd say that is far too low a level for a WC semi-finalist, but it's Croatia. Their best clubs are not ready to compete for titles in Europe, they are a long way off, but they produce quality. Because they are part of a quality system. 

We get CPL working at this kind of solid quality level, which I could see for 2030, the possibility of calling in an active CPL player is not so crazy.

I expect to see a few players that very recently transferred from CPL to be getting calls soon. The more that happens, the more likely we are to see callups directly from CPL. The level is still being proven, but it's trending positively (MLS, Scotland, France, Poland, Scandanavia etc.) 

[Ansem]

On 2/12/2023 at 10:52 PM, brianjc said:

If a CPL club is placed on the Island of Montreal, the only places I could see it work is at CEPSUM or Jarry Park(modular stadium), and they would need a different color scheme  from CF Montreal.   CEPSUM has potential as it is at metro and REM station Edouard Montpetit.   Jarry Park is close to Metros Jarry (orange line) and de Castelnau (blue line)

Just a thought.

 

Parc Jarry would be the best realistic and optimal location for a CPL club in Montreal (of course Montreal Bassin Peel would be the dream with the REM)

CEPSUM can't work for many reasons, the league seems to prefer soccer specific stadium with the club being the 1st tenant and/or controlling the venue

 

[Watchmen]

4 hours ago, Kingston said:

I'm not convinced that is the case.  I doubt anyone really expected CPL players to be getting regular national team time by now.

There was a narrative in the early days of the league by some posters that the CMNT should be calling up CPL players just to promote the league, but that's died down.

I will say I'm surprised there hasn't been more "domestic-team based" friendlies outside of the normal FIFA windows, which would have included CPL players. More of a Canada B team, but still an opportunity. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Watchmen

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

I expect to see a few players that very recently transferred from CPL to be getting calls soon. The more that happens, the more likely we are to see callups directly from CPL. The level is still being proven, but it's trending positively (MLS, Scotland, France, Poland, Scandanavia etc.) 

Sure.  Joel Waterman comes immediately to mind.

I still don't expect to see many callup directly from the CPL in the next few years.  The few we do see will be along the lines of the callups we've seen for MLS bench players - mainly coming to camp but not playing or getting substitution minutes in unimportant games.  Remember those friendlies against Barbados a couple of years ago when we were trying to rack up a few extra FIFA ranking points?

This isn't a slam against the CPL, either.  I just think that, with the much larger number of guys now playing in MLS and Europe, the quality of our NT is rising faster than the quality of the CPL is rising.  Ironically, the CPL itself is helping make this happen.  Eventually I expect to see that curve flatten and then we'll see if the CPL comes up far enough to feed the national team directly, but I think that's a number of years away.

[K Edgar]

[Ansem]

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

It would be a different story if there were a few regular CMNT callups playing for CanPL clubs and that was no doubt the expectation of what would be happening by now on the part of the people who negotiated the deal when the CSB deal was signed.

The league is 5 years old (2 season during lockdown) - I belive the goal is to have lots of National team players having played in CPL in their career. As of now, Bustos, Didic, Waterman, McNaughton and those in youth teams like Abzi, now Montgomery, Norman Jr, Daniels, Tabla, Farsi, Meilleur-Giguere, Bontis, Ferdinand, Poku, Catavolo, Assi, Coimbra, Habibullah, De Rosario and others I might have missed.

Most would agree it isn't a bad start.

Direct call up from CPL will come eventually but players abroad will be favoured as it usually is - we all recall when Klinsmann didn't want MLS guys in his rosters...no?

 

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

They really did seem to believe the narrative about Canadian players being denied opportunities in MLS, which had a small element of truth to it but was being massively overblown.

The roster rule discriminating against Canadians even on our own soil was not trivial. It was a real issue raised by Floro and Zambrano when they coached - the lack of minutes was a historical big issue for the National teams

 

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If you use another national association's league structure you have to live with the fact they they set the rules.

You might want to elaborate a bit here

 

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The question then is whether the positives that are being derived from having access to it outweigh the negatives. Having a league that can sustain three fully funded pro level academies is the obvious positive and that pathway provides a significant portion of the players who wind up in CanPL.

Never been clear to me why so many people don't understand that it's a good situation when you can have your cake and east it too.

That's the thing, define "we" --> "we" as Canadian soccer fans of those 3 MLS clubs fans? Big difference here.

Overall, we DO NOT have our cake and eat it too simply due to the roster rules. I think I'm on record saying many times that if there was at least reciprocity where ONLY Canadians are considered as domestic on Canadian clubs than I would be fully supportive of MLS staying here. Now that would having our cake and eat it too.

Seems like some are getting the habit of projecting their benefit of being an MLS club fan onto the rest of the country. Most of the rest would agree that these roster rules are weird

[Aird25]

When CPL was being conceived we had a pretty large contingent of national team callups still playing for Unattached FC. Detractors conveniently leave that out when implying the league isn't meeting expectations

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

When CPL was being conceived we had a pretty large contingent of national team callups still playing for Unattached FC. Detractors conveniently leave that out when implying the league isn't meeting expectations

That MLS Canadian clubs wouldn't play

[gigi riva]

CPL is only 4 years old as a league it is still in developing mode . It took MLS many years to gain some form of legitimacy .As far MLS goes  things changed when TFC,Seattle, and Portland  came in the fold . In four years CPL teams have held there own vs MLS teams both Pacific and Forge have had decent runs in CONCACAF champs league play .  We have seen a few CPL players move to the next level most notably Waterman . 

[Watchmen]

10 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

both Pacific and Forge have had decent runs in CONCACAF champs league play .

CONCACAF league, not Champions League. There's a difference. Still been fun though.