CPL General

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, harrycoyster said:

Vancouver was willing to have the team have independent branding and build a stadium. The main sticking point was that CPL leadership did not want to give them freedom of player movement. Movement of players and transfers between the MLS and CPL teams would be subject to the CPL league office.

That wasn't a total dealbreaker for the Whitecaps, but at some point the communication channel completely broke down. The feeling from the Whitecaps was that CPL leadership acted unprofessionally and that bad blood between individual personalities couldn't be overcome.

There is certainly a level of felt ownership over all soccer in Western Canada within the Whitecaps that has rubbed others the wrong way that I'm sure came into play. 

Can I ask where you are getting this info from?

A lot of it surprises me, like building a stadium and even pitching freedom of player movement. I thought the Whitecaps had been unsuccessful to date getting a soccer specific stadium built for their MLS team. How could they commit to one for CPL? 

And are there any examples in world football where player movement isn't regulated by league rules or financial fair play, particularly between top division teams in two different countries? It seems like a massive potential competitive advantage for both teams, and I can't imagine MLS or CPL allowing it. Too many potential pitfalls, particularly in two salary cap leagues. 

I'd be happy to have them as investors in CPL, and it would be wonderful to have more infrastructure, but it needs to be done right

[harrycoyster]

24 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Can I ask where you are getting this info from?

A lot of it surprises me, like building a stadium and even pitching freedom of player movement. I thought the Whitecaps had been unsuccessful to date getting a soccer specific stadium built for their MLS team. How could they commit to one for CPL? 

And are there any examples in world football where player movement isn't regulated by league rules or financial fair play, particularly between top division teams in two different countries? It seems like a massive potential competitive advantage for both teams, and I can't imagine MLS or CPL allowing it. Too many potential pitfalls, particularly in two salary cap leagues. 

I'd be happy to have them as investors in CPL, and it would be wonderful to have more infrastructure, but it needs to be done right

I used to be involved with BC Soccer and PCSL. It's a small world.

Though I don't know the specifics, I can't imagine the CPL stadium would have been downtown and high capacity. Maybe neither.

Don't want to speculate too much on what the issue was with player movement, I just know it was an issue. It's possible that the Whitecaps wanted to be able to play players on MLS contracts. It's possible that the CPL were completely against player movement between teams in the same ownership group. Frankly, I don't have any CPL sources and this could all be sour grapes to some extent.

I maintain that the CPL's inability to bring in big money that was interested is a missed opportunity, even if the vision had to be compromised slightly. Just an opinion.

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

I maintain that the CPL's inability to bring in big money that was interested is a missed opportunity, even if the vision had to be compromised slightly. Just an opinion.

If that means that you have to bend to that big money, than it undermines your project and won't bring value. Best you look for "other" big money that shares your vision and goals. Plenty of examples of leagues passing on big money when interests diverged. This notion that CPL should behave any differently is just weird - or small thinking Canadian... go figure

[Aird25]

21 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

I maintain that the CPL's inability to bring in big money that was interested is a missed opportunity, even if the vision had to be compromised slightly.

You keep mentioning this but aren't many, if not all, of the CPL ownership groups quite wealthy? Certainly wealthy enough to fund a CPL team if they find value in it. I agree that bringing in other groups is important, but not at the expense of the integrity of the project. I personally don't think many fans would find much value in supporting an MLS second team, but that's just me and what I've observed to date. An independent project might be different

[shermanator]

The Whitecaps wanting to put their reserve team in Calgary back in 2017 is true. And it would have signaled the end of the supporters group that I helped found. The only reason it was being considered was that there was no other alternate to starting a legitimate pro club at the time, and amateur soccer via PDL was as big as it was going to get.

There was and is zero appetite to support reserve team (or "minor league", if you will) soccer in this city.

Thankfully we have a very wealthy ownership group who has bought into Tommy Wheeldon and the CPL's vision and are willing to invest significantly in the game in this city, including spending more money on infrastructure than the other ownership groups combined.

Edited February 23, 2023 by shermanator

[Aird25]

42 minutes ago, shermanator said:

The Whitecaps wanting to put their reserve team in Calgary back in 2017 is true. And it would have signaled the end of the supporters group that I helped found. The only reason it was being considered was that there was no other alternate to starting a legitimate pro club at the time, and amateur soccer via PDL was as big as it was going to get.

There was and is zero appetite to support reserve team (or "minor league", if you will) soccer in this city.

Thankfully we have a very wealthy ownership group who has bought into Tommy Wheeldon and the CPL's vision and are willing to invest significantly in the game in this city, including spending more money on infrastructure than the other ownership groups combined.

Some of the richest people in the province. The exact peoples you'd hope were involved in Alberta

[CDNFootballer]

On allowing MLS reserve or disguised farm teams pretending to be independant in CPL : Would have handicapped CPL from the start, made it to look less of the Div 1/Tier 1 Canadian pro league it is. CPL is 100% right to keep them out of Canada's top league and like the USA's Div 1 MLS did from the start, you always have to project a top tier image. Of course MLS teams like Vancouver and TFC wanted in on the CPL, they wanted to keep it down and control it, and have it seen as a lower level by having reserve or disguised farm teams in Canada's Div 1 as they see it as potential competition.

On awareness of the CPL vs MLS : The USA's MLS has a 20+ year start on the young CPL, people will become more aware of the CPL as it grows in stature and size over the years just like MLS has.

[Watchmen]

I think it's pretty well established that I'm in the "MLS + CPL is the best strategy" camp (while having some doubts about the long term viability of the CPL), and even I think it would have been a bad strategy to allow MLS reserve sides in CPL.

[ATM]

 Let's run our league the way the best Leagues in the world do. MLS is becoming to gimmicky, just  look at the new playoff rules. Other then selling or loaning players between the 2  leagues no other relationship I think is needed. 

[EnigMattic1]

4 hours ago, ATM said:

 Let's run our league the way the best Leagues in the world do. MLS is becoming to gimmicky, just  look at the new playoff rules. Other then selling or loaning players between the 2  leagues no other relationship I think is needed. 

Why? Why not run it your way? No two leagues run the same way. English leagues are all about money and poor ownership which leads to teams going under. Hell, even Man City are in trouble over their financial activity. Germany have a rule where fans MUST own 51% of the club. Italy is a hive of corruption with Juventus in trouble..... AGAIN. Spain has it's fair share of controversy. All the big European leagues have become reliant on Champions League qualification.

Run the CPL your way. Keep the u21 minute rule, limit the number of international players and encourage the clubs to develop players. Do it that way and Canada can make their mark on world football.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

...and why not acknowledge that Greg Kerfoot, MLSE and the Saputos are Canadian investors in Canadian soccer who are ploughing huge sums into pro level youth development through clubs that are directly affiliated to the CSA and stop pretending that there was a problem that needed to be fixed in that regard when CanPL isn't funding its own merit based academy programs at this point. If that issue had been approached more constructively, CanPL could have been used to showcase most of the best young Canadian talent.

[Ansem]

More academy players are signing with CPL for pro minutes while offering a legitimite shot to those who aren't from MLS academies. It is fulfilling its purpose 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ansem

[narduch]

Whitecaps are about to start the season with zero Canadian starters.

Are we supposed to kiss MLS ass while they continue to fail Canada?

[Ivan]

3 hours ago, narduch said:

Whitecaps are about to start the season with zero Canadian starters.

Are we supposed to kiss MLS ass while they continue to fail Canada?

I'm not at all happy that the VWC have zero Canadian starters, but the U17s just qualified for the World Cup and their 11 starters are all MLS Academy products.  They must be doing something right.

[narduch]

1 minute ago, Ivan said:

I'm not at all happy that the VWC have zero Canadian starters, but the U17s just qualified for the World Cup and their 11 starters are all MLS Academy products.  They must be doing something right.

I will admit I might be a bit hyperbolic....

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, narduch said:

Whitecaps are about to start the season with zero Canadian starters.

Are we supposed to kiss MLS ass while they continue to fail Canada?

Last year Teibert was regularly starting for them, so I can tell you there's an upside to this "no Canadian starters" situation. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Caps fans have already had our Canadian content. Like 45 years ago we did. We'd like to get back to being a badass winning team.

If it doesn't work with no Canadians, by all means rake us over the coals.

 

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Caps fans have already had our Canadian content. Like 45 years ago we did. We'd like to get back to being a badass winning team.

If it doesn't work with no Canadians, by all means rake us over the coals.

 

Winning with Canadians is great, but the key to the team being successful in the stands is the "winning" not the "Canadians" part.

[longlugan]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:10 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...and why not acknowledge that Greg Kerfoot, MLSE and the Saputos are Canadian investors in Canadian soccer who are ploughing huge sums into pro level youth development through clubs that are directly affiliated to the CSA and stop pretending that there was a problem that needed to be fixed in that regard when CanPL isn't funding its own merit based academy programs at this point. If that issue had been approached more constructively, CanPL could have been used to showcase most of the best young Canadian talent.

This more than anything verifies that you just don't get it. You truly are a dumb twat. 

[SpursFlu]

The CPL will really help the MLS teams with their CanCon. I think roughly 40% of MLS playing time was consumed by Americans. If you created a figure between the Canadian clubs I'm pretty sure it's below that number. So clearly all the MLS teams alone haven't don't the best to develop MLS level Canadian talent. CPL will really help with that over time

Rea might be an example this season

 

I'm also curious to see how CPL football supporter development has gone. Hopefully someday they have a supporter development league. But in the meantime I'm curious to see some data. Like how many people had season tickets to a football team in Canada 10 years ago vs how many do now? I think CPL has done a pretty decent job increasing the amount of professional football supporters in this country. We're not England or Italy yet but we're doing better

 

 

Edited February 25, 2023 by SpursFlu

[shermanator]

Cavalry are starting their preseason by holding training sessions and an intersquad game in Red Deer this week. They're holding meet and greets and a clinic for youth players, with all money raised going right back to soccer in Red Deer. I know a couple people who've gone up to watch. From what they tell me, there are a lot of people there and a tonne of merch is being sold. 

It's nice to see a club like Cavalry reach out beyond the Calgary city limits and engage with youth clubs across the province. Did it last year with their club program and now with this camp. FC Edmonton never made an effort to do that so it's Cavalry's time to swoop in.

[shermanator]

Farsi making his first MLS start. Rea and Sirois making their MLS debuts. Good thing we have a league that can help develop some of these MLS prospects who are too good for a reserve league but not yet ready to make the step up to MLS.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

 

 

[Ansem]

On 2/24/2023 at 6:09 PM, Watchmen said:

Winning with Canadians is great, but the key to the team being successful in the stands is the "winning" not the "Canadians" part.

They can't even do that with starting 100% foreigners... what happened to Canada's Bilbao? 🤣

Hey at least they started 2 "domestics" from Uncle Sam's lands - we should take comfort in that I suppose 

Might as well have Vancouver just for CPL if American based clubs starts more Canadians than the Caps

[Watchmen]

26 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They can't even do that with starting 100% foreigners... what happened to Canada's Bilbao? 🤣

Hey at least they started 2 "domestics" from Uncle Sam's lands - we should take comfort in that I suppose 

Might as well have Vancouver just for CPL if American based clubs starts more Canadians than the Caps

I have some bad news for you.  Even with the loss, the review from every Caps fans I've spoken with was that the game was a lot of fun (in the first half), it was the best they've looked in ages (in the first half), and while the final result was poor and left everyone shaking their heads, there's still a sense of optimism.  Last year they started 4 Canadians in the opening match (Cavalini, Teibert, Baldisimo, Hasal) were absolutely horrific losing 4-0, and fans were frustrated before the season had even really begun.  

But if you actually wanted to read more about what it would take to be "Canada's Bilbao": 

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2023/1/1/23534179/the-athletic-bilbao-of-canada