CPL General

[RS]

4 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Really? I have to jump thread to thread lecturing you on how to read? ?

Challenging, I know.  Try again @RS.

On what basis would it be illegal to have players ineligible for CMNT count as non-domestic?  Not on what basis are they considered domestic, which quite clearly they are. 

So they are just counting Springer (and eventually Amoebi) as domestic out of the kindness of their hearts?  That's real nice of them.

[Keegan]

16 minutes ago, RS said:

So they are just counting Springer (and eventually Amoebi) as domestic out of the kindness of their hearts?  That's real nice of them.

They can set whatever rules they want RS.  How is that hard for you to comprehend? 

What you responded to was me asking BBTB aka Peter Hogg, why it would be illegal if they chose to count them as internationals. 

[RS]

Just now, Keegan said:

They can set whatever rules they want RS.  How is that hard for you to comprehend? 

What you responded to was me asking BBTB aka Peter Hogg, why it would be illegal if they chose to count them as internationals. 

Because CPL has an explicit limit on how many internationals it allows, and by counting Canadian citizens (or permanent residents, who have most of the same protections) as internationals they'd be limiting their ability to work in a Canadian league. I'm not a lawyer, but in my (limited) opinion that could open up a can of worms.

So yes, they can set whatever rules they want to, but it would be wise not to set rules that could bring about legal challenges off the bat.

[Keegan]

18 minutes ago, RS said:

Because CPL has an explicit limit on how many internationals it allows, and by counting Canadian citizens (or permanent residents, who have most of the same protections) as internationals they'd be limiting their ability to work in a Canadian league. I'm not a lawyer, but in my (limited) opinion that could open up a can of worms.

So yes, they can set whatever rules they want to, but it would be wise not to set rules that could bring about legal challenges off the bat.

So, yes practically it is the right thing to do.  But it’s not a legal issue, this is the point.  You can legally discriminate in certain areas (I.e education) and our legislation sets out what you can’t discriminate based on.  Hint: national team eligibility isn’t something that would fall under discrimination. 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Keegan

[Ruffian]

16 minutes ago, Keegan said:

So, yes practically it is the right thing to do.  But it’s not a legal issue, this is the point.  You can legally discriminate in certain areas (I.e education) and our legislation sets out what you can’t discriminate based on.  Hint: national team eligibility isn’t something that would fall under discrimination. 

Not a lawyer, but on a quick search on the internet brought up a document from the Ontario Human Rights Commission.
http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/iii-principles-and-concepts/3-grounds-discrimination-definitions-and-scope-protection
In this document it states:

It is illegal for employers to make distinctions between Canadian citizens, citizens from other countries, persons with dual citizenship, landed immigrants or permanent residents, refugees and non-permanent residents. 

It also states:

People should not be discriminated against or harassed because they are from outside Canada.

These may not always stand up in court but I am sure the issue is complex as the CPL will have to deal with Canadian laws and all involved Provincial laws. They might just be taking the conservative route and not limiting who is designated as a domestic player.

[Ansem]

4 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

Not a lawyer, but on a quick search on the internet brought up a document from the Ontario Human Rights Commission.
http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/iii-principles-and-concepts/3-grounds-discrimination-definitions-and-scope-protection
In this document it states:

It is illegal for employers to make distinctions between Canadian citizens, citizens from other countries, persons with dual citizenship, landed immigrants or permanent residents, refugees and non-permanent residents. 

It also states:

People should not be discriminated against or harassed because they are from outside Canada.

These may not always stand up in court but I am sure the issue is complex as the CPL will have to deal with Canadian laws and all involved Provincial laws. They might just be taking the conservative route and not limiting who is designated as a domestic player.

There are exemptions to this. The Federal public service does discriminate 

Canadian citizens have priority over permanent resident then lastly in some cases outside.

It's not black and white, but once they are employed, then yes, you absolutely cannot discriminate during the Employment but the hiring? Exemptions exists

Edited February 15, 2019 by Ansem

[Keegan]

59 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

Not a lawyer, but on a quick search on the internet brought up a document from the Ontario Human Rights Commission.
http://www.ohrc.on.ca/en/iii-principles-and-concepts/3-grounds-discrimination-definitions-and-scope-protection
In this document it states:

It is illegal for employers to make distinctions between Canadian citizens, citizens from other countries, persons with dual citizenship, landed immigrants or permanent residents, refugees and non-permanent residents. 

It also states:

People should not be discriminated against or harassed because they are from outside Canada.

These may not always stand up in court but I am sure the issue is complex as the CPL will have to deal with Canadian laws and all involved Provincial laws. They might just be taking the conservative route and not limiting who is designated as a domestic player.

Close but not the issue here.  No one is talking about nationality but rather national team eligibility.  Even if they conflated eligibility with nationality it would be saved by section 16(2).

There would be no claim.  But MLS is actually violating the above as it discriminates in a way that prefers Americans over other internationals in Canada.  That is a blatant violation.  

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Keegan

[Ansem]

21 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Close but not the issue here.  No one is talking about nationality but rather national team eligibility.  Even if they conflated eligibility with nationality it would be saved by section 16(2).

There would be no claim.  But MLS is actually violating the above as it discriminates in a way that prefers Americans over other internationals in Canada.  That is a blatant violation.  

 

That league is such a contradiction.... Why bother go this far when they are now trying to go around the roster rules by distributing green cards to internationals so they count as domestic?

This issue has been raised by Quebec sports journalists that see an unfair advantage that US teams have over Canadian teams.

Oh well... this means in the long run less minutes for Americans which have been already declining...

That league doesn't know what it wants to be...

***my opinion

Edited February 15, 2019 by Ansem

[RS]

15 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Oh well... this means in the long run less minutes for Americans which have been already declining...

You're not wrong, but then CPL could be headed down the same path if they are doing what @Keegan posits and simply allowing players who have been cap-tied for other nations count as domestics because "it’s just probably not worth it making first year 26 year old pros waste international slots in a new league."

I'll phrase it a different way. What's more likely?

- All Canadian citizens and PR holders are required by law to be counted as domestics by the CPL, lest they risk all sorts of legal challenges?

- The CPL, which has repeatedly and publicly stated that one of its main goals is to help the national team, just decided to be nice to SKN-capped Justin Springer by allowing him to take a domestic roster spot on York 9, thus denying a potential Canada-eligible player from a job in the process? 

If it's the second option, then CPL is making the same mistake as MLS, but in Year One instead of Year Twenty-Four.

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, RS said:

You're not wrong, but then CPL could be headed down the same path if they are doing what @Keegan posits and simply allowing players who have been cap-tied for other nations count as domestics because "it’s just probably not worth it making first year 26 year old pros waste international slots in a new league."

I'll phrase it a different way. What's more likely?

- All Canadian citizens and PR holders are required by law to be counted as domestics by the CPL, lest they risk all sorts of legal challenges?

- The CPL, which has repeatedly and publicly stated that one of its main goals is to help the national team, just decided to be nice to SKN-capped Justin Springer by allowing him to take a domestic roster spot on York 9, thus denying a potential Canada-eligible player from a job in the process? 

If it's the second option, then CPL is making the same mistake as MLS, but in Year One instead of Year Twenty-Four.

????

I don't think the law has much to do with option 1. I believe the league has enough flexibility to make it's own rules or bend them.

I don't like option 2. I'm of the opinion that if you have been cap-tied by another nation, you should count as international.

On the principle, shouldn't happen even if it's year one. If this becomes a trend..  there will be push back I think

[Keegan]

I think it’s just the first year - you’re trying to get as much credibility as possible and keep costs low.  Are you going to deny a player with international experience from Vaughan playing for his local club?  Or alternatively, if they did sign him, take away the chance to bring in an international that could improve league quality? 

If you think about it this probably more of a net positive than negative for Canadian soccer.  How many Canadians like Springer are there?  A dozen maybe?  These are all low quality players - if a Canadian eligible kid can’t beat one of those guys out it’s unlikely he’ll ever be national team material or even CPL material.  

In the future if we have grown and have Canadian guys playing for concacaf rivals (legitimate ones) I would have a problem with that.  For the first little while when we’re just trying to piece together rosters on the cheap - it’s probably not worth it.  

[Ansem]

I like this as a reminder of what we want to achieve 

young league 

[Ansem]

21 hours ago, Keegan said:

I think it’s just the first year - you’re trying to get as much credibility as possible and keep costs low.  Are you going to deny a player with international experience from Vaughan playing for his local club?  Or alternatively, if they did sign him, take away the chance to bring in an international that could improve league quality? 

If you think about it this probably more of a net positive than negative for Canadian soccer.  How many Canadians like Springer are there?  A dozen maybe?  These are all low quality players - if a Canadian eligible kid can’t beat one of those guys out it’s unlikely he’ll ever be national team material or even CPL material.  

In the future if we have grown and have Canadian guys playing for concacaf rivals (legitimate ones) I would have a problem with that.  For the first little while when we’re just trying to piece together rosters on the cheap - it’s probably not worth it.  

Maybe some answers? I'm no expert in the matter 

 

[Senorpopps]

I feel like that tweet can re-phrased better with less negatives and better punctuation - took me a while to figure out what it meant.

[shamrock]

I just noticed soccerway finally has a Canadian Premier League section. They have all the teams but of course no schedule yet and the players aren't there yet but I guess this means they will provide the game info of the Premiere League!

[Shway]

Has there been any mentions of academy teams? 

Seeing how consistently strong TFCs academy has been against other MLS teams... I wonder when the Forge and the Niners will start to take away from them. 

[Copes]

5 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Has there been any mentions of academy teams? 

Seeing how consistently strong TFCs academy has been against other MLS teams... I wonder when the Forge and the Niners will start to take away from them. 

I haven't heard anything, and it seems like it isn't in early plans since most of the clubs are drawing pretty heavily from regional development programs. I suspect its a hope, but much like Promotion and Relegation, its something that will be established as the league grows.

[Blackjack15]

My prediction and strong guess is that today The Schedule, TV/Broadcast deal and/or another major sponsor is announced 

For the season schedule I'm thinking:

- 30 Total games (All 7 Teams play each other 5 times) 

- Late April to Late October

- Clanachan/Beirne has clarified they will respect the FIFA International breaks -> [June 3-11, September 2-10, and October 7-15]

- Considering The Canadian Championship will take place on Wednesdays [Chart indicated below] means they will need to squeeze 5 or so mid week games in order to make it work. Most likely early on to have it balanced (always on weekends) and not tire clubs out through large stretches of the season once per month for example where they play 2 games in 5 days etc

- The majority of games to be indeed on the weekends (Friday's, Saturday's and Sunday's) *Afternoons and evenings* 

- Since CONCACAF League starts in July for either Forge, Valour or FCE then depending on if their still active in the Canadian championship then either July 17-31 or Canada soccer will be kind enough (I hope) to reschedule to help them in the regions international competition. But I'm sure they already have it all figured out 

- Obviously Byes will factor in too

- Canada Day (Which lands on a Monday) 6 teams play or around that date anyway

- Maybe aperture/closure format

 

First qualifying round May 15–22

Second qualifying round June 5–12

Third qualifying round July 10–24

Semi-finals August 7–14

Final September 18–25

MLS Toronto

USLC Ottawa

CPL Valour

CPL Wanderers

L1O Vaughan

MLS Vancouver

CPL

CPL Forge

CPL

CPL Pacific

CPL Cavalry

MLS Montreal

CPL Edmonton

CPL York

PLSQ Blainville

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Thomas
Extra info

[matty]

3 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

My prediction and strong guess is that today The Schedule, TV/Broadcast deal and/or another major sponsor is announced 

For the season schedule I'm thinking:

- 30 Total games (All 7 Teams play each other 5 times) 

- Late April to Late October

- Clanachan/Beirne has clarified they will respect the FIFA International breaks -> [June 3-11, September 2-10, and October 7-15]

- Considering The Canadian Championship will take place on Wednesdays [Chart indicated below] means they will need to squeeze 5 or so mid week games in order to make it work. Most likely early on to have it balanced (always on weekends) and not tire clubs out through large stretches of the season once per month for example where they play 2 games in 5 days etc

- The majority of games to be indeed on the weekends (Friday's, Saturday's and Sunday's) *Afternoons and evenings* 

- Since CONCACAF League starts in July for either Forge, Valour or FCE then depending on if their still active in the Canadian championship then either July 17-31 or Canada soccer will be kind enough (I hope) to reschedule to help them in the regions international competition. But I'm sure they already have it all figured out 

- Obviously Byes will factor in too

- Canada Day (Which lands on a Monday) 6 teams play or around that date anyway

- Maybe aperture/closure format

But we already know it'll be a 28 game season? It's gonna be a cramped cramped season

[mpg_29]

 

[tyler453]

Schedule and TV deal coming at 5:30? Not sure what else this landmark announcement will be. Maybe sponsors

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think it has to be the broadcasting deal to be "landmark". There was a guy on reddit this week claiming to have basically been told by a Forge ticket rep that it would be DAZN rather than TSN or Sportsnet, which would fit some of the stuff we've been told about a change in the way fans consume domestic pro soccer. Time will tell.

[mpg_29]

They have the Canada Soccer Business logo on the tweet. So I'd have to say it has something to do with a broadcasting deal or sponsorship related. Hopefully the former.

[BuzzAndSting]

9 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think it has to be the broadcasting deal to be "landmark". There was a guy on reddit this week claiming to have basically been told by a Forge ticket rep that it would be DAZN rather than TSN or Sportsnet, which would fit some of the stuff we've been told about a change in the way fans consume domestic pro soccer. Time will tell.

Not exactly. Here's the quote;

He gave his personal opinion on the matter and strongly supported DAZN. Now, i don't know if that means he knows they aren't going with DAZN and he's disappointed or he doesn't know who's involved and that's just his preference.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

I definitely didn't do a good job on paraphrasing that, but here's more of the context:

He said don't expect a TSN or Sportnet to get involved. I mentioned that some people have been talking about a Soccer Night in Canada or something like a Game of the Week. He liked the idea, but couldn't say whether that was in the cards, but didn't sound like it would be a thing in the league's first season. He gave his personal opinion on the matter and strongly supported DAZN...

In my experience, sales staff tend to push company policy rather than give personal opinions. We'll see what happens later.