CPL General

[matty]

2 hours ago, ted said:

Are you serious? How is the CPL is getting nothing out of the deal?

FFS a few months ago we were discussing how the league might have to pay for broadcasts and and now somehow you imagine that a $200M deal is a bad thing?!!?

dude way to misunderstand what i meant. the deal so far is mediapro bought the rights for 10 years, that's very vague and at face value it would seem the rights are now theirs and out of cpl's control which may include any funds media pro get from the rights. details are not that clear.

i didn't say cpl are getting nothing, they're get more upfront that they likely would on their own but could see a dowm the road sitation were they miss out on some serious cash. it was a trade off that was likely worth it as i said.

if you weren't so knee jerk you would get that 

Edited February 22, 2019 by matty

[matty]

37 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

huh? massive hit on ad money? in what sense?

just on digital and tv ads IF those are fully controlled by mediapro and not cpl.

[ted]

3 hours ago, matty said:

dude way to misunderstand what i meant. the deal so far is mediapro bought the rights for 10 years, that's very vague and at face value it would seem the rights are now theirs and out of cpl's control which may include any funds media pro get from the rights. details are not that clear.

i didn't say cpl are getting nothing, they're get more upfront that they likely would on their own but could see a dowm the road sitation were they miss out on some serious cash. it was a trade off that was likely worth it as i said.

if you weren't so knee jerk you would get that 

LOL You are the one literally making shit up about the deal. Does it, in fact do any of the things you are talking about? Have you seen the deal?



 

[matty]

12 minutes ago, ted said:

LOL You are the one literally making shit up about the deal. Does it, in fact do any of the things you are talking about? Have you seen the deal?



 

no i said from what I've seen that's public it looks like media pro has a lot of control over media rights and i don't know how much. how is that making stuff up?

Edited February 22, 2019 by matty

[Guest]

2 hours ago, matty said:

just on digital and tv ads IF those are fully controlled by mediapro and not cpl.

Perhaps I don't understand the business but I would think that when you purchase broadcast rights, the way you make money is with advertising during the broadcast. So the ad slots would obviously be what MediaPro bought. And the more people watching, the more money they make, and the better it is for CPL and Canadian football. Win win, so far as I can see.

[matty]

6 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

Perhaps I don't understand the business but I would think that when you purchase broadcast rights, the way you make money is with advertising during the broadcast. So the ad slots would obviously be what MediaPro bought. And the more people watching, the more money they make, and the better it is for CPL and Canadian football. Win win, so far as I can see.

yea that's how it should go and there isn't anything overly bad about it. it might see the cpl miss out on cash down the rpad but up front it's a great move. the one thing i would ad is that it seems mediopro bought the media rights over just broadcast so the deal might allow media pro more control but still should be win win.

the in the red comment is because the cpl might be more dependant on ticket and merch sales under this deal 

Edited February 22, 2019 by matty

[Guest]

1 minute ago, matty said:

yea that's how it should go and there isn't anything overly bad about it. it might see the cpl miss out on cash down the rpad but up front it's a great move. the one thing i would ad is that it seems mediopro bought the media rights over just broadcast so the deal might allow media pro more control but still should be win win.

 

I do have questions about the deal, the main one being how much CASH CSB is getting out of it, but I'm resigned to not getting the answer anytime soon. Nevertheless, I can't find any angle that makes the deal look unfavourable. Essentially, CSB have given over to experts the task of getting the CPL and Canadian football in general into the public consciousness, and the better those experts do, the more money they make. CSB could never have done what MediaPro will do. And the CSA have been trying forever and failing forever in the most miserable way, to the extent that we can't even play home MNT friendlies because they LOSE MONEY!

Definitely looks like a big win to me. I'm looking forward to seeing the details come out.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

I do have questions about the deal, the main one being how much CASH CSB is getting out of it, but I'm resigned to not getting the answer anytime soon. Nevertheless, I can't find any angle that makes the deal look unfavourable. Essentially, CSB have given over to experts the task of getting the CPL and Canadian football in general into the public consciousness, and the better those experts do, the more money they make. CSB could never have done what MediaPro will do. And the CSA have been trying forever and failing forever in the most miserable way, to the extent that we can't even play home MNT friendlies because they LOSE MONEY!

Definitely looks like a big win to me. I'm looking forward to seeing the details come out.

yea and the only negative i see (aside from cpl being exclusive to some unknown app or channel) is a down the line one and by then the deal would be almost over. even the app thing would be super short term.

the league is basically secure for a decade and that's worth everything 

Edited February 22, 2019 by matty

[Cheeta]

Long, sorry.

 It's been mentioned by others but I'm sure this deal, along with others announced and others to follow, are probably pretty complicated bits of scribbling.  It's easy to ask the dollars and cents question of "what's it worth to me?" and become disappointed by an "It depends." answer.

Take the Volkswagen deal because it may have important parts of it directly woven into this Mediapro deal.  Dollars and cents what's that Founding Sponsorship worth to the CPL?  Pick a number, any number,.  Just for a lark say it's a million bucks over three years.  Chicken scratch.  What if that same deal that delivers 1/3 of a million every year to the CPL for the next three years also requires VW to do a half million dollar media buy during CPL broadcasts every season?  Again, chicken scratch to VW.  

But what if part of that Mediapro deal which saw CSB surrender all marketing rights compensates CSB with half of all add revenue sold?  Under that arrangement every year half of that half million dollar VW media buy now ends up back in CSB/CPL pockets.  So in effect you're nearly doubling the cash value of the VW Founding Sponsor deal to the CPL.  

It's a scheme which sells itself and amplifies off itself.  Mediapro knows CSB is through their sponsorship negotiations pushing add revenue directly to them, reducing the risk for them in this whole adventure.  Potential sponsors have to feel confident with the quality and professionalism of the carrier their being required to marry themselves to and so that reduces the risk of the media purchase for them.  And since viewership numbers likely affecting the cost of each add run these captive sponsorship media buys will one way or another get the customers full value for their dollar.

I'd expect if CSB and Mediapro do have an advert revenue sharing scheme it will also have thresholds.  As an example, such and such a split at X dollars, such and such a split +10% at Y dollars, such and such a split +20% at Z dollars, per year..  The more advert revenue CSB can funnel towards Mediapro the closer they get to reaching Z dollars.  And getting sponsors to buy advertising is way easier than getting them to just hand over money.  

So yeah, if we just want to talk dollars and cents, what's the VW Founding Sponsorship worth to the CPL?  Same answer as the Mediapro deal and any other soon to be announced sponsorship deal.  

It depends.

Intangibles aside, and those are HUGE, from where I sit so-far so-good.  If I'm right, then the league is investing in their own success.

(Not claiming to know anything, just speculating, and I'm sure I'm dumbing it down to the point of embarrassing myself.  But there is, and unless your new to these forums you know already I'm not shy about embarrassing myself).

 

 

 

    

 

[Watchmen]

45 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

Long, sorry.

 It's been mentioned by others but I'm sure this deal, along with others announced and others to follow, are probably pretty complicated bits of scribbling.  It's easy to ask the dollars and cents question of "what's it worth to me?" and become disappointed by an "It depends." answer.

 

Except that even when there's cases of "it depends" with pro sports, we've know that.  The NHL has signed deals where the broadcaster shared $X amount of ad revenue and that's all they got, but we knew that.  When TSN first signed up exclusives rights to the CFL, it wasn't for giant dollars but we knew what they were and could all see that it was still a big deal to the CFL.  The CSB hasn't said at all what the dollar figure or the details are, and in a world where we *know* the dollar figures of pro leagues signing TV contracts, then *not* knowing just leads me to think there's something to hide.  Because if there's nothing to hide, why hide the numbers or details?

[Guest]

 

[ted]

7 hours ago, matty said:

the league is basically secure for a decade and that's worth everything 

Thank you. That is really all that matters at the moment.
 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

We don't really know that yet given how few details have been made available. Best that can be said is that it's a highly positive sign that a company like Mediapro wants to be involved. The key things to watch now are whether there is any regular mainstream cable presence in year one and how well they do on subscriptions to the streaming app, because they need as much exposure as possible to make their sponsorship deals as lucrative as they can be.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Long, sorry.

 It's been mentioned by others but I'm sure this deal, along with others announced and others to follow, are probably pretty complicated bits of scribbling.  It's easy to ask the dollars and cents question of "what's it worth to me?" and become disappointed by an "It depends." answer.

Take the Volkswagen deal because it may have important parts of it directly woven into this Mediapro deal.  Dollars and cents what's that Founding Sponsorship worth to the CPL?  Pick a number, any number,.  Just for a lark say it's a million bucks over three years.  Chicken scratch.  What if that same deal that delivers 1/3 of a million every year to the CPL for the next three years also requires VW to do a half million dollar media buy during CPL broadcasts every season?  Again, chicken scratch to VW.  

But what if part of that Mediapro deal which saw CSB surrender all marketing rights compensates CSB with half of all add revenue sold?  Under that arrangement every year half of that half million dollar VW media buy now ends up back in CSB/CPL pockets.  So in effect you're nearly doubling the cash value of the VW Founding Sponsor deal to the CPL.  

It's a scheme which sells itself and amplifies off itself.  Mediapro knows CSB is through their sponsorship negotiations pushing add revenue directly to them, reducing the risk for them in this whole adventure.  Potential sponsors have to feel confident with the quality and professionalism of the carrier their being required to marry themselves to and so that reduces the risk of the media purchase for them.  And since viewership numbers likely affecting the cost of each add run these captive sponsorship media buys will one way or another get the customers full value for their dollar.

I'd expect if CSB and Mediapro do have an advert revenue sharing scheme it will also have thresholds.  As an example, such and such a split at X dollars, such and such a split +10% at Y dollars, such and such a split +20% at Z dollars, per year..  The more advert revenue CSB can funnel towards Mediapro the closer they get to reaching Z dollars.  And getting sponsors to buy advertising is way easier than getting them to just hand over money.  

So yeah, if we just want to talk dollars and cents, what's the VW Founding Sponsorship worth to the CPL?  Same answer as the Mediapro deal and any other soon to be announced sponsorship deal.  

It depends.

Intangibles aside, and those are HUGE, from where I sit so-far so-good.  If I'm right, then the league is investing in their own success.

(Not claiming to know anything, just speculating, and I'm sure I'm dumbing it down to the point of embarrassing myself.  But there is, and unless your new to these forums you know already I'm not shy about embarrassing myself).

Short, you're welcome:

To summarize, we don't know the details of any of the deals that have been announced. They could be more or less favourable than they look at first blush.

[matty]

15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

We don't really know that yet given how few details have been made available. Best that can be said is that it's a highly positive sign that a company like Mediapro wants to be involved. The key things to watch now are whether there is any regular mainstream cable presence in year one and how well they do on subscriptions to the streaming app, because they need as much exposure as possible to make their sponsorship deals as lucrative as they can be.

Larson did hint that we're going to see a mix of traditional and streaming

Apps do seem like more of a long game strategy and given most apps, like DAZN, aren't that big so even a small hardcore bloc of fans using it (say 3-5k, maybe even less) could be seen as a success in year one.

Edited February 23, 2019 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Think you guys are extrapolating beyond what's really being confirmed by that tweet. In the coverage of the announcement they didn't rule out being on cable at some point, but there was no indication it was definitely happening in year one.

[matty]

Just now, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think you guys are extrapolating beyond what's really being confirmed by that tweet. In the coverage of the announcement they didn't rule out being on cable at some point, but there was no indication it was definitely happening in year one.

that's why i said hint. it's far from confirming but it is giving a slight suggestion. i don't think anyone is reading it as confirmation but you're right that there was no concrete indication from any party involved that there will be traditional broadcasts but we do know mediapro is working on some kind of app and that larson is a tease with info.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

 

[RickC]

Is this ^ type of referee camp new? If so, this is yet another indication of building out the Canadian soccer economy referenced by the early CPL announcements. It's not just about teams and players, but about the administration of the clubs and referees, etc. I don't recall CSA doing something like this and stating it's to take advantage of MLS opportunities.

[Cheeta]

On 2/23/2019 at 1:41 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Think you guys are extrapolating beyond what's really being confirmed by that tweet. In the coverage of the announcement they didn't rule out being on cable at some point, but there was no indication it was definitely happening in year one.

I don't know.  Reads pretty clear to me.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'm surprised there is so much talk about MLSE and CPL here, when if anything it is the only of the MLS teams to have its territory directly "challenged", where you could potentially go to TFC and York9 on the same half day. How could that benefit TFC? How could having a CPL team in any way counter that, especially when it would probably have to be outside of Greater Toronto?

My view is that all three MLS teams have it in their best interest to not allow CPL to succeed too close to their turf. Everything they are doing should work against it, since CPL can potentially cut into their revenue streams, hurt their Canadian narrative and show up their relatively mediocre (ok to just bad) development of Canadian players.

In fact, Bunbury in Montreal has made an effort to say he spoke to Saputo. And I did hear a brief rumour or comment that the Whitecaps had to some degree had a hand in freezing out the CPL project for the Fraser Valley. 

Let's be honest: CPL cannot be good for MLS in any terms. The Canadian MLS teams have weak requirements for Canadian players, so it does not even give them a feeder system of any use. From their perspective, any actions taken would involve walking softly and carrying a big stick. 

This is why I say we cannot be naive and cannot trust them, we have to more forward in CPL and not let anything in MLS condition the league, as we get our feet on the ground during the first few years. Including accepting any sort of direct or majority shareholder interest from the MLS teams in a CPL club.

[matty]

@Unnamed Trialist would be against someone like Tottenham owning a team? Also just curious what if an American MLS owner or Liga MX owner wanted to own a CPL team?

[matty]

anyone read this rollins piece? thoughts? http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/articles/canadian-premiere-league/finding-the-audience-r64/

[mmd]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm surprised there is so much talk about MLSE and CPL here, when if anything it is the only of the MLS teams to have its territory directly "challenged", where you could potentially go to TFC and York9 on the same half day. How could that benefit TFC? How could having a CPL team in any way counter that, especially when it would probably have to be outside of Greater Toronto?

My view is that all three MLS teams have it in their best interest to not allow CPL to succeed too close to their turf. Everything they are doing should work against it, since CPL can potentially cut into their revenue streams, hurt their Canadian narrative and show up their relatively mediocre (ok to just bad) development of Canadian players.

In fact, Bunbury in Montreal has made an effort to say he spoke to Saputo. And I did hear a brief rumour or comment that the Whitecaps had to some degree had a hand in freezing out the CPL project for the Fraser Valley. 

Let's be honest: CPL cannot be good for MLS in any terms. The Canadian MLS teams have weak requirements for Canadian players, so it does not even give them a feeder system of any use. From their perspective, any actions taken would involve walking softly and carrying a big stick. 

This is why I say we cannot be naive and cannot trust them, we have to more forward in CPL and not let anything in MLS condition the league, as we get our feet on the ground during the first few years. Including accepting any sort of direct or majority shareholder interest from the MLS teams in a CPL club.

I don't think TFC has much to worry about as of now. But, if their season is anything like their last game, York9 and to a small extent Hamilton, have a great opportunity at stealing some fans. The only negative for York9 is that many Toronto sports fans feel like they should be in U.S Based leagues to be considered Major League. You see that with the Toronto Argos. CFL has an exciting product, yet many Torontonians looks down on the CFL and would rather cheer NFL teams.

One thing about the CFL and I hope it is realized in the CPL is to not be American. And that with the future of Pro/Rel will make TRUE soccer fans look at TFC/VWC/MTL and the MLS as a minor leagues.

So I HOPE !!

[grande]

https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadianPL/comments/auof1z/the_canadian_premier_league_has_recently/

Looks like CPL has copyrighted Al Classico and 905 Derby.