CPL General

[RS]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I find that impressive. I imagine this is about them positioning themselve in a small market in North America to make the next step towards going after MLS rights, or maybe our World Cup rights.

I could see them going after MLS in the U.S. if Disney and Fox (and Univision, for Spanish-language) don't pony up enough next time, same for Bell Media in Canada who basically bought partial Canadian rights for a song and only re-upped after TFC and the Impact pulled huge playoff ratings in 2016 and 17.

As for our World Cup rights, I assume you're talking about Canadian rights to 2026. That already belongs to Bell as part of the FIFA package they've held for a while, and there's no way they're giving those up. Same for the U.S., which is held by Fox.

After 2026, however, I think everything is up for grabs so an ambitious company like this one could be in the running.

[Keegan]

I’m thinking this rights deal must include our CMNT otherwise it’s really puzzling. 

$200 million is a huge investment that seems too risky for just CPL.  If you include CMNT it would make sense for them as the official channel for a World Cup host, even if the CPL is a complete bust they have some value to work with.

[lazlo_80]

7 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I’m thinking this rights deal must include our CMNT otherwise it’s really puzzling. 

$200 million is a huge investment that seems too risky for just CPL.  If you include CMNT it would make sense for them as the official channel for a World Cup host, even if the CPL is a complete bust they have some value to work with.

It does

[BuzzAndSting]

17 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I’m thinking this rights deal must include our CMNT otherwise it’s really puzzling. 

$200 million is a huge investment that seems too risky for just CPL.  If you include CMNT it would make sense for them as the official channel for a World Cup host, even if the CPL is a complete bust they have some value to work with.

I think someone posted that a Bell already owns the Canadian WC rights through 2026.

[Keegan]

3 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

I think someone posted that a Bell already owns the Canadian WC rights through 2026.

For sure the World Cup rights but I'm talking specifically about our MNT in the build-up.  So Gold Cups, 2022 WCQ, Copa America, friendlies, youth tournaments etc. Hype will be snowballing in the next decade and they would be smart to become the all in one centre for Canadian football - which it seems they are.  

[matty]

2 minutes ago, Keegan said:

For sure the World Cup rights but I'm talking specifically about our MNT in the build-up.  So Gold Cups, 2022 WCQ, Copa America, friendlies, youth tournaments etc. Hype will be snowballing in the next decade and they would be smart to become the all in one centre for Canadian football - which it seems they are.  

It would not be the Gold Cup (those are held by CONCACAF) or Copa America. It would basically be all games on Canadian soil played by all national teams (friendlies and qualifying games). If we hosted a friendly tournament (like CanWNT vs France vs China) all those games would be covered by this deal if they were in Canada.

Edited February 21, 2019 by matty

[Gopherbashi]

2 minutes ago, matty said:

It would not be the Gold Cup (those are held by CONCACAF) or Copa America. It would basically be all games on Canadian soil played by all national teams (friendlies and qualifying games).

Nations League too.

[matty]

3 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Nations League too.

yea i was counting those as qualifying for gold cup

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, RS said:

I could see them going after MLS in the U.S. if Disney and Fox (and Univision, for Spanish-language) don't pony up enough next time, same for Bell Media in Canada who basically bought partial Canadian rights for a song and only re-upped after TFC and the Impact pulled huge playoff ratings in 2016 and 17.

As for our World Cup rights, I assume you're talking about Canadian rights to 2026. That already belongs to Bell as part of the FIFA package they've held for a while, and there's no way they're giving those up. Same for the U.S., which is held by Fox.

After 2026, however, I think everything is up for grabs so an ambitious company like this one could be in the running.

This would have been the logic, but things in general are changing. Supposedly set tv sports deals are now being renegotiated, this has emerged as a standard practice in recent years. So someone will have the rights, and then they get another offer and sell them--or those selling rights renege and annul the bidding process, reopening it to give rights to a better bidder come in later. 

For example, MediaPRO won Serie A, paying a price, then the Italian league started to argue that their guarantees were not viable, or how they were going to develop the product, and used that as a pretext to re-open the process and give their rights to Sky. Obviously the latter is a bigger enterprise, but the point is that even when you lose rights, or someone else has them "clearly", the negotations still continue.

[Macksam]

15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Mediapro are massive, they have a tv station, produce tv shows and movies, like Woody Allen's Vicky Cristina Barcelona (which I frigging hate), and have basically come to dominate football rights in Spain, also international rights. They have the international rights for La Liga, and Spain rights for all UEFA club competitions, they'll also bought the rights for Ligue 1 in France starting in a few years.

They are rather aggresively trying to build a media empire, also looking at printed press, sports press. 

The owner Jaume Roures was an anti-Franco militant during the dictatorship, like in Trotskyist parties (here that is pretty normal), and is still a on the left politically, let's say the NDP would be a bit too soft and moderate for him. He was a great friend and colleague of Cruyff, is a vehement supporter of Catalan independence, his partners are rather talented art collectors and media people (I say this because I can judge what they collect). So he is a sort of hard-knocks self made maverick but knows his stuff.

For them to pick up CPL is really quite amazing since they actually believe there is something there, I find that impressive. I imagine this is about them positioning themselve in a small market in North America to make the next step towards going after MLS rights, or maybe our World Cup rights.

It's quite ironic then how the club you're a paid voting member of is inherently fascist in nature. 

[Ams1984]

26 minutes ago, Macksam said:

It's quite ironic then how the club you're a paid voting member of is inherently fascist in nature. 

Interesting tidbit, but I’m not sure what the man’s politics bring to the table. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

It's quite ironic then how the club you're a paid voting member of is inherently fascist in nature. 

You're an idiot, but being an avowed Trump apologist, we all know that.  So I did not expect you to have the least idea what a fascist is. 

It gets tiring to have to deal with people whose posting is the intellectual equivalent of Little Jack Horner, they stick their thumb in the pie, pull it out and are amazed at themselves when something stuck to it.   

Edited February 21, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[yellowsweatygorilla]

1 hour ago, Macksam said:

It's quite ironic then how the club you're a paid voting member of is inherently fascist in nature. 

Wait, in what way is Barca (assuming that's the club we're talking about) inherently fascist? The club was banned a number of times for opposition to fascist regimes, its fans often joined protests and strikes after games, and some of its most famous players fought in the Spanish Civil War against the nationalists? 

 

Unless you mean the more contemporary Qatari sponsorship?

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 minutes ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Wait, in what way is Barca (assuming that's the club we're talking about) inherently fascist? The club was banned a number of times for opposition to fascist regimes, its fans often joined protests and strikes after games, and some of its most famous players fought in the Spanish Civil War against the nationalists? 

 

Unless you mean the more contemporary Qatari sponsorship?

He's a rabid Trump supporter, he is one of the closest posters to the definition of "fascist" on the board, at least ideologically (I am not aware of his behaviour of course), so you can't really except a lot from him on that level. 

I think there are enough people here, probably a majority, who can make the basic political distinctions, and even discuss them intelligently, without having to worry about the freaks.

BTW, there is no important evidence of players fighting against Franco's armies, or at least not with any higher frequency than the general population in Catalonia. The Franco army, did, however, capture and murder the president of FC Barcelona during the Civil War, in case you were not aware.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josep_Sunyol

[yellowsweatygorilla]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's a rabid Trump supporter, he is one of the closest posters to the definition of "fascist" on the board, at least ideologically (I am not aware of his behaviour of course), so you can't really except a lot from him on that level. 

I think there are enough people here, probably a majority, who can make the basic political distinctions, and even discuss them intelligently, without having to worry about the freaks.

BTW, there is no important evidence of players fighting against Franco's armies, or at least not with any higher frequency than the general population in Catalonia. The Franco army, did, however, capture and murder the president of FC Barcelona during the Civil War, in case you were not aware.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josep_Sunyol

Ah, thought I read somewhere that players also fought on the side of the Republicans. Also remember reading about strong involvement of the CNT-FAI.

[Macksam]

23 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

You're an idiot, but being an avowed Trump apologist, we all know that.  So I did not expect you to have the least idea what a fascist is. 

It gets tiring to have to deal with people whose posting is the intellectual equivalent of Little Jack Horner, they stick their thumb in the pie, pull it out and are amazed at themselves when something stuck to it.   

I am disappointed UT. I thought you would be better than this. I never meant fascism like it was a bad thing. 

Little Jack Horner? I'm sorry, I'm not sure what the reference is or what it's implying. 

You probably know Google's definition of fascism but not the true underlying tenets of it. 

6 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's a rabid Trump supporter, he is one of the closest posters to the definition of "fascist" on the board, at least ideologically (I am not aware of his behaviour of course), so you can't really except a lot from him on that level. 

I think there are enough people here, probably a majority, who can make the basic political distinctions, and even discuss them intelligently, without having to worry about the freaks.

BTW, there is no important evidence of players fighting against Franco's armies, or at least not with any higher frequency than the general population in Catalonia. The Franco army, did, however, capture and murder the president of FC Barcelona during the Civil War, in case you were not aware.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josep_Sunyol

I am no Trump supporter but I'm not surprised you would accuse me of being one. That's what happens when one gives an honest fair assessment of his actions, he gets labelled a Trump supporter/apologist (usually from an irrational leftist) when all that person is doing is stating facts and speaking truth.  

[Ams1984]

59 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's a rabid Trump supporter, he is one of the closest posters to the definition of "fascist" on the board, at least ideologically (I am not aware of his behaviour of course), so you can't really except a lot from him on that level. 

I think there are enough people here, probably a majority, who can make the basic political distinctions, and even discuss them intelligently, without having to worry about the freaks.

BTW, there is no important evidence of players fighting against Franco's armies, or at least not with any higher frequency than the general population in Catalonia. The Franco army, did, however, capture and murder the president of FC Barcelona during the Civil War, in case you were not aware.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josep_Sunyol

Can the political stuff would you? Being a Trump supporter makes someone fascist? That’s a fascistic opinion. 

[yellowsweatygorilla]

5 hours ago, Ams1984 said:

 

Deleted this post to keep things on track 

Edited February 21, 2019 by yellowsweatygorilla

[RickC]

A fascist is one who carries a bundle of sticks and an axe, right? From latin, fasces.

[LAK]

Both of my feet are facists...wait, sorry have fasciitis. Plantar fasciitis, it's quite painful.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Ams1984 said:

Can the political stuff would you? Being a Trump supporter makes someone fascist? That’s a fascistic opinion. 

Well it is not a label I use, it is a label Macksam is throwing out. Now if you want to take a rather diverse description of the personal background of a left-leaning owner of a media company, and use that to infer that a club he is not directly involved with is fascist, then you are in line with the reasoning of Macksam. I would expect it of you, it is what we have to put up with when we are not talking about football. 

In any case, Trump promotes, defends and abets American people who are philo-fascists, as defined by extreme racism, sexism, militarism and the attempt to misconstrue justice and constitutional principles and gain power by illegitimate means (ie using the covert resources of a foreign power that is historically antagonistic to the US). But of course American militarism, for example, or policies bent on domination of other peoples outside their borders and within, is not exclusive to Trump or even Republicans, it is systemic across the political "spectrum". 

[Daryn27]

18 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well it is not a label I use, it is a label Macksam is throwing out. Now if you want to take a rather diverse description of the personal background of a left-leaning owner of a media company, and use that to infer that a club he is not directly involved with is fascist, then you are in line with the reasoning of Macksam. I would expect it of you, it is what we have to put up with when we are not talking about football. 

In any case, Trump promotes, defends and abets American people who are philo-fascists, as defined by extreme racism, sexism, militarism and the attempt to misconstrue justice and constitutional principles and gain power by illegitimate means (ie using the covert resources of a foreign power that is historically antagonistic to the US). But of course American militarism, for example, or policies bent on domination of other peoples outside their borders and within, is not exclusive to Trump or even Republicans, it is systemic across the political "spectrum". 

I thought this was a Canada Soccer Supporters website/forum not a American politics page...... but that’s none of my business.

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 minutes ago, Daryn27 said:

I thought this was a Canada Soccer Supporters website/forum not a American politics page...... but that’s none of my business.

You are right. I only talked about politics in the context of explaining who the owner of MediaPRO is, it was neither gratuitous, preachy or overly technical. His politics make up a lot of who he is, and defines his character and way of doing business. That is possibly relevant to the CPL contract. And Macksam started spouting idiocies about "fascism".

It is also all common knowledge for those of us who have followed Roures or know him (my wife just told me today she has been in meetings with him, and observed how he was a very unassuming guy, poorly dressed, badly kept, and very straight-shooting). I personally like the mentality in part and dislike it too, it can sort of go either way, he is not really a fully stable businessman I wouldn't say, he is in an aggressive building mode, like Richard Branson 30 years ago. 

[Ams1984]

1 hour ago, yellowsweatygorilla said:

Uhh... Trump's rhetoric and actions are completely consistent with fascism. Other than the fact that white supremacist and fascist groups have openly supported Trump - everything from the KKK to Combat Coalition here in Canada, "Make America Great Again" is consistent with the central tenant of fascism about a return to a romanticized past marked by 'purity'. Let's look at policy: racial scapegoating (immigration controls, building a wall), centralizing of power in the 'hard mechanisms' of the state (police, ICE, military).

 

Check out this analysis by John McNeil, Georgetown historian - >https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/10/21/how-fascist-is-donald-trump-theres-actually-a-formula-for-that/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.75c311f408a4 While, McNeil concludes that Trump isn't a complete match to Franco or Mussolini [back in 2016 anyways, I think a lot of the measures change based on the last two years], you can see the consistencies. I would also argue that the violence he mentioned does exist, albeit less directly - from people dying from complications in immigration detention centres to the increased lack of police accountability/emboldening of brutality.

More recent writings but scholars who've examined fascism: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/30/trump-borrows-tricks-of-fascism-pittsburgh https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/30/trump-borrows-tricks-of-fascism-pittsburgh

 

Either way, I am shocked, if Macksam is indeed a fascist (I am not seeing him refute that allegation), that we're allowing fascists to post on this board.

Again, cut the political stuff out. I don’t come here to debate Trump. If that’s what this site becomes, I’m out. 

[Ams1984]

29 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well it is not a label I use, it is a label Macksam is throwing out. Now if you want to take a rather diverse description of the personal background of a left-leaning owner of a media company, and use that to infer that a club he is not directly involved with is fascist, then you are in line with the reasoning of Macksam. I would expect it of you, it is what we have to put up with when we are not talking about football. 

In any case, Trump promotes, defends and abets American people who are philo-fascists, as defined by extreme racism, sexism, militarism and the attempt to misconstrue justice and constitutional principles and gain power by illegitimate means (ie using the covert resources of a foreign power that is historically antagonistic to the US). But of course American militarism, for example, or policies bent on domination of other peoples outside their borders and within, is not exclusive to Trump or even Republicans, it is systemic across the political "spectrum". 

I don’t care what you think about politics. And I certainly don’t have to discuss my leanings with you. You aren’t God to make the sort of pronouncements you do, as if you can speak with any kind of authority about what I think. You have no idea who I am, what I do, or what I believe. You are constantly spouting off like a child, and for a guy who likes to preen around like an academic or an intellectual, it’s pretty unbecoming. With aggressive and leperous posts like yours, it’s no reason some people avoid these boards.