CPL new teams speculation

[narduch]

36 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Not true. The only significant issue at the time the moratorium was announced by the CSA was that the USSF's D2 and D3 league sanctioning conditions only allowed a certain percentage of clubs from outside the United States but waivers to those conditions could potentially be obtained.

Tony Waiters was hired by the USL to help push Canadian expansion only a few months before Victor Montagliani announced that it was now verboten. One of the interested groups was FC London. Well over a decade on pro soccer in London, Ont is still in don't hold your breath territory because of CanPL's more stringent stadium expectations.

Something something escalating franchise values though.

Well we know MLS wasn't going to ever add anymore Canadian teams

[longlugan]

6 hours ago, phil03 said:

Because in exchange we have our federation being in a financial crisis when both of our national programs when they should be in golden ages of their own.

Like, I have personally come around to grudgingly accept that something like the CSB deal was needed (altough I still have beef with the specific terms) since we can't function with three clubs eternally, the Yanks didn't want to give us the access to their pyramid we would have needed to function only through them and the geographical challenges coming with running a fully Canadian professional league. I also think having a regional league would defeat the whole purpose, since what we want are clubs covering most of the country geographically so we won't let talents fall through the cracks because there isn't any professional club close to home.

However, I also think that its unsurprising that people will keep questioning the league and its organisation as long as it is connected with pain for our national programs and that they will keep daydreaming of way we could have done it without that pain, or at least with less of it.

That's what the CPL signed up for when the owners agreed to the CSB deal, I am affraid.

You're treading close to Ozzie levels of stupidity. Take off the tinfoil hat buttercup.

[phil03]

39 minutes ago, longlugan said:

You're treading close to Ozzie levels of stupidity. Take off the tinfoil hat buttercup.

So its actually tinfoily to say that in the middle of a financial crisis in our federation, hindering national programs that should both be in a better place now, its unsurprising some people are daydreaming about ways we could have gotten more clubs without the financial crisis?

With all due respect, if you have an issue with an actual argument brought up by someone maybe you should engage with it instead of just launching personal insults at people...

Like, for real: in the real world I have been going to games when I could and watching my Athletico Ottawa on OneSoccer when I couldn't go in person, as well as actively trying to talk my loved ones who are also Soccer fans to start following the league. But here you and others go after me (and not just my opinions, which I'd be fine with) just because I happen to not think that supporting the CPL is incompatible with criticizing some aspects of how it does things and I can understand why some people are far more critical of it then I am.

I like engaging with fellow Soccer fans here generally but those incidents are kinda exhausting...

Edited January 22 by phil03

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, phil03 said:

So its actually tinfoily to say that in the middle of a financial crisis in our federation, hindering national programs that should both be in a better place now, its unsurprising some people are daydreaming about ways we could have gotten more clubs without the financial crisis?

With all due respect, if you have an issue with an actual argument brought up by someone maybe you should engage with it instead of just launching personal insults at people...

Like, for real: in the real world I have been going to games when I could and watching my Athletico Ottawa on OneSoccer when I couldn't go in person, as well as actively trying to talk my loved ones who are also Soccer fans to start following the league. But here you and others go after me (and not just my opinions, which I'd be fine with) just because I happen to not think that supporting the CPL is incompatible with criticizing some aspects of how it does things and I can understand why some people are far more critical of it then I am.

I like engaging with fellow Soccer fans here generally but those incidents are kinda exhausting...

So why not start "CPL sustainable?" or "Alternative CPL structures" or "Alternative CPL business model" or "what I would change about the CPL" or "CPL not really necessary" threads

This thread going by its title is intended for expansion speculation and news. For over a month it's being bogarted by a few people going on and on about what they dislike about the CPL and why they think it's doomed. I know it's silly season but just making a point

[phil03]

6 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

So why not start "CPL sustainable?" or "Alternative CPL structures" or "Alternative CPL business model" or "what I would change about the CPL" or "CPL not really necessary" threads

This thread going by its title is intended for expansion speculation and news. For over a month it's being bogarted by a few people going on and on about what they dislike about the CPL and why they think it's doomed. I know it's silly season but just making a point

I don't disagree (although I fear some would come to these threads to attack those participating in them aniway) but a) it isn't an excuse for personal attacks and b) threads tend to go on tangents and people bring their hobby horses despite it not being the subject all the time aniway.

But yeah, I would definitely like a ''Constructive criticisms of the CPL'' thread. I think it would be good for the forum overall to have a place to discuss such ideas so that it doesn't spillover in other threads (incidently I think the same would be true re the recurrent debates on the status of the MLS clubs) and its a discussion worth having, because no organization is perfect after all and recognizing that isn't being a hater.

I just don't want to be the one starting it for the very reason mentioned in the post you quoted. 

[SpursFlu]

14 minutes ago, phil03 said:

I don't disagree (although I fear some would come to these threads to attack those participating in them aniway) but a) it isn't an excuse for personal attacks and b) threads tend to go on tangents and people bring their hobby horses despite it not being the subject all the time aniway.

But yeah, I would definitely like a ''Constructive criticisms of the CPL'' thread. I think it would be good for the forum overall to have a place to discuss such ideas so that it doesn't spillover in other threads (incidently I think the same would be true re the recurrent debates on the status of the MLS clubs) and its a discussion worth having, because no organization is perfect after all and recognizing that isn't being a hater.

I just don't want to be the one starting it for the very reason mentioned in the post you quoted. 

Yah I understand. It's not cool. The whole "You're an idiot" response. But people at a certain point just seem to be trying to annoy and troll people. I'm sure I've been a bit guilty of that myself before. 

So why not create a thread for that sort of discussion because in this thread it just seems like people are trying to fart in the punch. (and yes, I just invented that weird expression)

[Bison44]

Well without CSB the thread would be called, "when oh when are we going to get our own soccer league".  And bird droppings could imagine reinventing L10 over and over.  The whole bundling of CPL and national team to bring media pro and Onesoccer into the picture would be another daydream.  We've got more teams now than ever before, the national teams are more successful and we have more media content focused on our soccer than ever.  Perfect..NO, better...YES.  

Realisitically, finding and then pairing a deep pocketed, committed owner with a viable stadium in Quebec should be the top priority of expansion.  There is just to many good players coming out of Quebec for there not to be a CPL team in there.  

[JamboAl]

3 hours ago, longlugan said:

You're treading close to Ozzie levels of stupidity. Take off the tinfoil hat buttercup.

Keep things civil.  @phil03 has made a point which he is entitled to make.

[Aird25]

20 hours ago, phil03 said:

Because in exchange we have our federation being in a financial crisis when both of our national programs when they should be in golden ages of their own.

Like, I have personally come around to grudgingly accept that something like the CSB deal was needed (altough I still have beef with the specific terms) since we can't function with three clubs eternally, the Yanks didn't want to give us the access to their pyramid we would have needed to function only through them and the geographical challenges coming with running a fully Canadian professional league. I also think having a regional league would defeat the whole purpose, since what we want are clubs covering most of the country geographically so we won't let talents fall through the cracks because there isn't any professional club close to home.

However, I also think that its unsurprising that people will keep questioning the league and its organisation as long as it is connected with pain for our national programs and that they will keep daydreaming of way we could have done it without that pain, or at least with less of it.

That's what the CPL signed up for when the owners agreed to the CSB deal, I am affraid.

Now there's a tangent I wasn't expecting. I'd suggest reading the many other threads on the CSA labour dispute because this doesn't belong here

[phil03]

7 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Now there's a tangent I wasn't expecting. I'd suggest reading the many other threads on the CSA labour dispute because this doesn't belong here

Here is the post you made I was answering:

On 1/21/2024 at 11:21 AM, Aird25 said:

I don't understand this desire to re-write history. We have a great league with clubs representing fantastic cities from coast to coast, and it only seems to getting better. If the league had folded because of Covid I could understand it, but why go backwards now?

You asked a question. I believe what I wrote to be the answer. You are, of course, entitled to disagree.

[Ansem]

So, what the next team entering the league?

[longlugan]

19 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Keep things civil.  @phil03 has made a point which he is entitled to make.

Agreed. My apologies. 

[SpursFlu]

44 minutes ago, Ansem said:

So, what the next team entering the league?

Kelowna and Quebec 2025

Kitchener Waterloo and Regina 2026

[K Edgar]

48 minutes ago, Ansem said:

So, what the next team entering the league?

2025 Quebec

2026 KW

2027 Laval

2028 Edmonton

[Kingston]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:01 PM, Ansem said:

So, what the next team entering the league?

I think Quebec, ideally in 2025.  And then by the end of the 2025 season, I think the league will be at an inflection point.

Hopefully we will see Quebec as the first expansion team to get it right from the start and they draw crowds at least as big as any other team in the league.  Hopefully we'll also have seen two more years of attendance growth in the already successful clubs so that Halifax, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Calgary are all comfortably over 5000 with occasional much larger crowds.  And hopefully the other four teams will at least have figured out what they need to do and be noticeably on their way to the next level.  If these things happen, the league will be well positioned to attract new ownership and fans.  A return to Edmonton and expansion into places like KW would then be easy sells.

If, on the other hand, the next expansion team looks more like Vancouver and we still only have four teams drawing something like break-even crowds, it will be problematic.  I'm not fearing for the league's existence at that point, but it would imply that what we see now represents the level of interest the CPL can generate.  If that's the case, it becomes a lot harder to convince new ownership groups to take a shot.

All to say that the success of the next expansion team will be very important.

[Watchmen]

6 hours ago, Kingston said:

I think Quebec, ideally in 2025.  And then by the end of the 2025 season, I think the league will be at an inflection point.

Hopefully we will see Quebec as the first expansion team to get it right from the start and they draw crowds at least as big as any other team in the league.  Hopefully we'll also have seen two more years of attendance growth in the already successful clubs so that Halifax, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Calgary are all comfortably over 5000 with occasional much larger crowds.  And hopefully the other four teams will at least have figured out what they need to do and be noticeably on their way to the next level.  If these things happen, the league will be well positioned to attract new ownership and fans.  A return to Edmonton and expansion into places like KW would then be easy sells.

If, on the other hand, the next expansion team looks more like Vancouver and we still only have four teams drawing something like break-even crowds, it will be problematic.  I'm not fearing for the league's existence at that point, but it would imply that what we see now represents the level of interest the CPL can generate.  If that's the case, it becomes a lot harder to convince new ownership groups to take a shot.

All to say that the success of the next expansion team will be very important.

I think they need to give the next expansion team more time between announcement and fielding a team then. Vancouver was rushed, and we all know it. I don't know if that would have made the situation in Vancouver better or not , but it certainly wasn't ideal. I just don't think they can name a place at Christmas and expect it to be functionally running by April again.

[Kingston]

3 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I think they need to give the next expansion team more time between announcement and fielding a team then. Vancouver was rushed, and we all know it. I don't know if that would have made the situation in Vancouver better or not , but it certainly wasn't ideal. I just don't think they can name a place at Christmas and expect it to be functionally running by April again.

I agree.  And although I said Quebec would ideally start in 2025, if that was the case we'd ideally be hearing about the new team as a season-opening announcement this year.

The longer lead up is good.  MLS tends to do a couple of years.  The Seattle Kraken of the NHL were approved in 2018 to start play in the 21/22 season.

[BearcatSA]

On 1/24/2024 at 3:01 PM, Watchmen said:

I think they need to give the next expansion team more time between announcement and fielding a team then. Vancouver was rushed, and we all know it. I don't know if that would have made the situation in Vancouver better or not , but it certainly wasn't ideal. I just don't think they can name a place at Christmas and expect it to be functionally running by April again.

Kelowna would definitely need a long runway to get it off the ground properly.

[SpursFlu]

15 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Kelowna would definitely need a long runway to get it off the ground properly.

I actually don't think. That baseball field dt would be perfect. They already do like music festivals and everything there. Based on Willoughby going up in like 3 months I would say you could do the modular thing in 10 months max. My thought is you would have to accommodate the baseball team that plays there. That's probably the tricky part

[shorty]

The tricky part is rescheduling all the home games that get smoked out in wildfire season. Wish I was joking but I’m not really. Otherwise I’m all over three clubs in BC. 

[nolando]

1 hour ago, shorty said:

The tricky part is rescheduling all the home games that get smoked out in wildfire season. Wish I was joking but I’m not really. Otherwise I’m all over three clubs in BC. 

It's a very serious consideration. Also extreme heat is very likely the norm especially through sun belts like the Okanagan. Sitting exposed in 30 degrees in Langley was bad enough. 5 or ten degrees hotter in Kelowna would be brutal. And I love the Okanagan. I just think most ppl would prefer the beach through the nicest months.  

[Stoppage Time]

1 hour ago, nolando said:

It's a very serious consideration. Also extreme heat is very likely the norm especially through sun belts like the Okanagan. Sitting exposed in 30 degrees in Langley was bad enough. 5 or ten degrees hotter in Kelowna would be brutal. And I love the Okanagan. I just think most ppl would prefer the beach through the nicest months.  

Agreed! Sitting exposed to the hot summer sun is awful. LEC needs a roof over the stands.

[SpursFlu]

I wonder how the local soccer league does it? They play in the summer up there. 

[jonovision]

3 hours ago, nolando said:

It's a very serious consideration. Also extreme heat is very likely the norm especially through sun belts like the Okanagan. Sitting exposed in 30 degrees in Langley was bad enough. 5 or ten degrees hotter in Kelowna would be brutal. And I love the Okanagan. I just think most ppl would prefer the beach through the nicest months.  

Kelowna could be a good chance to try out whether evening weekend start times (my preference) would work.

[nolando]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I wonder how the local soccer league does it? They play in the summer up there. 

I've brought youth teams up there to play in summer. It's sweaty and often slows the game down significantly  through fatigue, muscle cramping, etc. but it's clearly feasible. Getting people to give up summer recreation to pay to come and see you play in that sunshine is a whole other matter.