Canadian Dual Nationals 2.0 Edition, Chase for the 5 stars

[MtlMario]

15 hours ago, costarg said:

I'm a little torn.  Part of me is like "karma is an honest and fair bitch, how do you like Canada now twerp?" and Canada should never call him up out of principle.  2- I feel a little bad for him, cause man, that is bad guidance and borderline idiotic if true.  3- a very very little part of me is like we might be able to use him at some point. 

# 1 all the way!

[narduch]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Lol it would be funny if he is cap tied, but it really gets under my skin how some people are treating him like the devil for wanting to play for another nation. I don't know, maybe I am the one who has changed, but it seems really childish, at least in this case. I always want eligible players to play for Canada, but damn have we always been this salty?

Anyways, I also wanted to take this opportunity to (once again) harp on the stupidity of these convoluted rules. The fact his advisors, who are immersed in the game professionally, possibly didn't know the rules just speaks how unnecessarily confusing they are. 

I don't know. I still hate Whoregreaves. 

Even if he doesn't really come up anymore.

[Ivan]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Lol it would be funny if he is cap tied, but it really gets under my skin how some people are treating him like the devil for wanting to play for another nation. I don't know, maybe I am the one who has changed, but it seems really childish, at least in this case. I always want eligible players to play for Canada, but damn have we always been this salty?

Anyways, I also wanted to take this opportunity to (once again) harp on the stupidity of these convoluted rules. The fact his advisors, who are immersed in the game professionally, possibly didn't know the rules just speaks how unnecessarily confusing they are. 

I've said this before.  I my mind, there is a huge difference between those born and raised here (Sigur, Jebbison, Farsi, etc) taking off for another nation, than someone with very little ties to our country (LDF, Koleosho, even guys Ugbo and Lopez).  I can't comprehend how someone born and raised here would bolt (I can really - money, opportunity, family pressures, etc), while the others with little ties does not bother me at all.

[MtlMario]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Lol it would be funny if he is cap tied, but it really gets under my skin how some people are treating him like the devil for wanting to play for another nation. I don't know, maybe I am the one who has changed, but it seems really childish, at least in this case. I always want eligible players to play for Canada, but damn have we always been this salty?

Anyways, I also wanted to take this opportunity to (once again) harp on the stupidity of these convoluted rules. The fact his advisors, who are immersed in the game professionally, possibly didn't know the rules just speaks how unnecessarily confusing they are. 

I usually agree on most of your comments but not on this one. This is not a guy who's eligible for us because his pet canary was born in Canada, he's born and raised here. I see too many people that cheer for the countries of their parents and grandparents before Canada. Cheers.

[archer21]

Copy pasting this from the “FIFA Eligilbility Rules Summary” thread by rydermike:

1)      If played in an OFFICIAL YOUTH MATCH for Country A (also could have played unlimited senior FRIENDLIES)

                                                               i.      Can switch to Country B if was naturally eligible for Country B at time of the official youth match for country A;   OR

                                                             ii.      Can switch to Country B, by naturalization, if at the time of their last official youth match they were Under 21 (due to legal rules this only applies to matches AFTER September 18, 2020 – see other rules section below for more detail)
 

I think they got denied because of ii. above. Not sure if Farsi would be able to switch because of i. above or not.

[CanadaFan123]

45 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I usually agree on most of your comments but not on this one. This is not a guy who's eligible for us because his pet canary was born in Canada, he's born and raised here. I see too many people that cheer for the countries of their parents and grandparents before Canada. Cheers.

Also I’ll add - this is a guy who has decided at 24 to play for Algeria after appearing for Canada at multiple levels. Why wasn’t he turning down Canada’s call in 2021? This one is worse than others in the past because of that. Look at Yankov, Mitrovic or Flores for example - even they had the decency to make their decision early and without “committing” to us first. This would be like one of them coming through a Canadian club, playing youth level for Canada and then getting a move and deciding they want another country. He can do what he wants but people don’t need to respect it. 
 

Farsi also sucks because I can’t recall a player ever being so universally cheered for. Basically he was CPL’s first young player to make it somewhere else and a lot of that is down to the support he received, which was a 100% Canadian hype machine. 

Edited March 30 by CanadaFan123

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Copy pasting this from the “FIFA Eligilbility Rules Summary” thread by rydermike:

 

1)      If played in an OFFICIAL YOUTH MATCH for Country A (also could have played unlimited senior FRIENDLIES)

                                                               i.      Can switch to Country B if was naturally eligible for Country B at time of the official youth match for country A;   OR

                                                             ii.      Can switch to Country B, by naturalization, if at the time of their last official youth match they were Under 21 (due to legal rules this only applies to matches AFTER September 18, 2020 – see other rules section below for more detail)
 

I think they got denied because of ii. above. Not sure if Farsi would be able to switch because of i. above or not.

Was reading some comments in that Twitter thread and someone commented that both are ineligible because if you are over 21 you need to already have a passport for the 2nd nation.

So the real question about Farsi is did he have an Algeria passport at the same time he played Olympic qualifying for us. 

[archer21]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

Was reading some comments in that Twitter thread and someone commented that both are ineligible because if you are over 21 you need to already have a passport for the 2nd nation.

So the real question about Farsi is did he have an Algeria passport at the same time he played Olympic qualifying for us. 

Yeah I thought that might be what is meant by if the player is “naturally eligible” for country B at time of playing for country A. He did play in Algeria in 2019 so it’s possible that he could’ve got his passport either ahead of that to allow him to play there, or while playing there.

[costarg]

56 minutes ago, Ivan said:

I've said this before.  I my mind, there is a huge difference between those born and raised here (Sigur, Jebbison, Farsi, etc) taking off for another nation, than someone with very little ties to our country (LDF, Koleosho, even guys Ugbo and Lopez).  I can't comprehend how someone born and raised here would bolt (I can really - money, opportunity, family pressures, etc), while the others with little ties does not bother me at all.

 

55 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I usually agree on most of your comments but not on this one. This is not a guy who's eligible for us because his pet canary was born in Canada, he's born and raised here. I see too many people that cheer for the countries of their parents and grandparents before Canada. Cheers.

 

13 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Also I’ll add - this is a guy who has decided at 24 to play for Algeria after appearing for Canada at multiple levels. Why wasn’t he turning down Canada’s call in 2021? This one is worse than others in the past because of that. Look at Yankov, Mitrovic or Flores for example - even they had the decency to make their decision early and without “committing” to us first. This would be like one of them coming through a Canadian club, playing youth level for Canada and then getting a move and deciding they want another country. He can do what he wants but people don’t need to respect it. 
 

Farsi also sucks because I can’t recall a player ever being so universally cheered for. Basically he was CPL’s first young player to make it somewhere else and a lot of that is down to the support he received, which was a 100% Canadian hype machine. 

This, this and this. 

There is a massive difference between Farsi and Koleosho for example.  One just happens to have options and has lived and played in a bunch of places.  These places also didn't give his family opportunities they would not have been afforded had they not left home.  Canada gave Farsi and his family a lot, there should be some pride and appreciation where his curiosity and allegiance lie instead.  

I say this as a first generation Canadian.  There is no chance in hell I pick Italy before Canada, and I love Italy.

[Dominic94]

36 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Also I’ll add - this is a guy who has decided at 24 to play for Algeria after appearing for Canada at multiple levels. Why wasn’t he turning down Canada’s call in 2021? This one is worse than others in the past because of that. Look at Yankov, Mitrovic or Flores for example - even they had the decency to make their decision early and without “committing” to us first. This would be like one of them coming through a Canadian club, playing youth level for Canada and then getting a move and deciding they want another country. He can do what he wants but people don’t need to respect it. 
 

Farsi also sucks because I can’t recall a player ever being so universally cheered for. Basically he was CPL’s first young player to make it somewhere else and a lot of that is down to the support he received, which was a 100% Canadian hype machine. 

Mitrovic is one where we dropped the ball, we literally did everything to push him away and then tried to make it right at the end and for Iankov we aren’t innocent.

Flores does not seem like a loss.

I think someone’s pumping false info in to Farsi’s head, like a young Ballou situation.

[Ivan]

2 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Mitrovic is one where we dropped the ball, we literally did everything to push him away and then tried to make it right at the end and for Iankov we aren’t innocent.

Flores does not seem like a loss.

I think someone’s pumping false info in to Farsi’s head, like a young Ballou situation.

Funny.  I actually think we won't miss Mitrovic or Yankov (already know we won't), while to me, Flores is still a big loss risk.  Could very well be wrong on all 3 though!

I agree completely with the Farsi analogy, although it could be the bitterness talking.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Won't this bite us over the long term because other confederations have U21 and U23 Olympic Qualifying matches while CONCACAF has eliminated the U23 Olympic Qualifying tournament?

[narduch]

29 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Won't this bite us over the long term because other confederations have U21 and U23 Olympic Qualifying matches while CONCACAF has eliminated the U23 Olympic Qualifying tournament?

Did they eliminate it? Or was it a 1 time covid thing?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

Going way back to the Holmes thing

Searching  for stuff in this general area and I think this is what people think might change is his situation:

From an immigration lawyer website

"In December, the Ontario Superior Court of Justice published a decision finding Canada’s “first generation” limit on citizenship unconstitutional."

More there on their sight. 

But this might skupper it in his case - no idea.

"Importantly, the Government has already been considering a change to the legislation that would allow citizenship to be passed beyond the first generation, but only if the parent meets the “substantial connection test”."

https://bartlaw.ca/2024-1-26/

 

Edited March 30 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[MtlMario]

5 hours ago, costarg said:

 

 

  

I say this as a first generation Canadian.  There is no chance in hell I pick Italy before Canada, and I love Italy.

Exactly the same thing with me.

[maplebanana]

5 hours ago, costarg said:

I say this as a first generation Canadian.  There is no chance in hell I pick Italy before Canada, and I love Italy.

First generation I think means you were born somewhere else, immigrated to Canada, then naturalized. If your parents were the ones that immigrated, then I think you're technically second generation. 

By this definition I am second generation Chinese-Canadian but if they ever play I want Canada to beat China 8-0 so I can drink their tears.

Full disclosure, as of last fall I am also now technically a first generation Canadian-American *shudder*

 

[MtlMario]

5 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

First generation I think means you were born somewhere else, immigrated to Canada, then naturalized. If your parents were the ones that immigrated, then I think you're technically second generation. 

By this definition I am second generation Chinese-Canadian but if they ever play I want Canada to beat China 8-0 so I can drink their tears.

Full disclosure, as of last fall I am also now technically a first generation Canadian-American *shudder*

 

Yes my parents immigrated here so I'm second generation if it's as you say.

[Ivan]

3rd generation Croatian on mothers side, 2nd generation on fathers side. But since the WC I can no longer cheer for Croatia like I used to. Arrogant fucks. As for Canada-Croatia dilemma? Never a question in my mind. Unfortunately, quite the opposite for most like me that I know.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

41 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

First generation I think means you were born somewhere else, immigrated to Canada, then naturalized. If your parents were the ones that immigrated, then I think you're technically second generation. 

By this definition I am second generation Chinese-Canadian but if they ever play I want Canada to beat China 8-0 so I can drink their tears.

Full disclosure, as of last fall I am also now technically a first generation Canadian-American *shudder*

 

I'm third generation English but I feel you there. 

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, Ivan said:

I've said this before.  I my mind, there is a huge difference between those born and raised here (Sigur, Jebbison, Farsi, etc) taking off for another nation, than someone with very little ties to our country (LDF, Koleosho, even guys Ugbo and Lopez).  I can't comprehend how someone born and raised here would bolt (I can really - money, opportunity, family pressures, etc), while the others with little ties does not bother me at all.

Generally agree here, yet I am still not particularly fussed about Farsi. Jebbison I take a "what are you waiting for" attitude, and it feels more like his loss than anything. The one that bothers me most is Sigur, because we could really use him, but even then I kind of understand it.

I don't know, I get what you and @MtlMario and others are saying, but I don't really view what Farsi or Sigur as being dickheads. Just seems they have a preference to play for other teams. Whether they justify it with personal feeling or personal ambition, I don't take it as a slight against Canada. We just have more work to do so that we are more appealing. We are getting stronger so we'll win more of these battles in the future, hopefully. 

I appreciate the guys who have committed, like Eustaquio or David, who could have played elsewhere, but it's funny how we seem to praise them for their patriotism, while at the same time we act as if Farsi and Sigur are unpatriotic, as in how can you possibly want to play for another team when you grow up here? At the end of the day I just think players are making personal, professional decisions. David, Eustaquio, Farsi, Sigur - we pretend these guys feel Canadian or don't feel Canadian but these are just fan narratives at the end of the day. I guess that's fandom, though. 

[Kadenge]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 .... Just seems they have a preference to play for other teams. Whether they justify it with personal feeling or personal ambition, I don't take it as a slight against Canada. 

But playing for a National team usually means where your heart is?..play for the flag, sing the anthem, wear the colours, unless its your 2nd option. It's not like choosing a club team/job in another country where personal ambition comes in. Besides, Canada has improved by leaps and bounds over the past 5+yrs and probably going to qualify for every WC going forward & possibly Copa. We have elite level players on our squad. We are not Croatia level but I think we could compete with Algeria, who got knocked out of the group stage at AFCON. Sigur & Farsi's friends are probably all Canadians given they were born and grew up here. As a 1st gen Canadian, I can fully relate to how Borjan feels about Canada and I'm stumped re Sigur and Farsi turning down calls.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

7 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

But playing for a National team usually means where your heart is?..play for the flag, sing the anthem, wear the colours, unless its your 2nd option. It's not like choosing a club team/job in another country where personal ambition comes in. Besides, Canada has improved by leaps and bounds over the past 5+yrs and probably going to qualify for every WC going forward & possibly Copa. We have elite level players on our squad. We are not Croatia level but I think we could compete with Algeria, who got knocked out of the group stage at AFCON. Sigur & Farsi's friends are probably all Canadians given they were born and grew up here. As a 1st gen Canadian, I can fully relate to how Borjan feels about Canada and I'm stumped re Sigur and Farsi turning down calls.

Honestly for some people its a business decision and a personal ambition of course is a factor in that. 

Edited March 30 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, maplebanana said:

First generation I think means you were born somewhere else, immigrated to Canada, then naturalized. If your parents were the ones that immigrated, then I think you're technically second generation. 

By this definition I am second generation Chinese-Canadian but if they ever play I want Canada to beat China 8-0 so I can drink their tears.

Full disclosure, as of last fall I am also now technically a first generation Canadian-American *shudder*

 

Is that a Chinese delicacy?

[Sal333]

11 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

But playing for a National team usually means where your heart is?..play for the flag, sing the anthem, wear the colours, unless its your 2nd option. It's not like choosing a club team/job in another country where personal ambition comes in. Besides, Canada has improved by leaps and bounds over the past 5+yrs and probably going to qualify for every WC going forward & possibly Copa. We have elite level players on our squad. We are not Croatia level but I think we could compete with Algeria, who got knocked out of the group stage at AFCON. Sigur & Farsi's friends are probably all Canadians given they were born and grew up here. As a 1st gen Canadian, I can fully relate to how Borjan feels about Canada and I'm stumped re Sigur and Farsi turning down calls.

I don't know about Sigur but I bet you most of Farsi's friends growing up were other Algerian-Canadians.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

But playing for a National team usually means where your heart is?..play for the flag, sing the anthem, wear the colours, unless its your 2nd option. It's not like choosing a club team/job in another country where personal ambition comes in. Besides, Canada has improved by leaps and bounds over the past 5+yrs and probably going to qualify for every WC going forward & possibly Copa. We have elite level players on our squad. We are not Croatia level but I think we could compete with Algeria, who got knocked out of the group stage at AFCON. Sigur & Farsi's friends are probably all Canadians given they were born and grew up here. As a 1st gen Canadian, I can fully relate to how Borjan feels about Canada and I'm stumped re Sigur and Farsi turning down calls.

I don't think this is necessarily the reality, especially in the modern era. Yes of course you play for the flag, but I imagine some guys feel multiple alligances and choose the one which suits them most professionally. Back in the day there was less of this going on, surely. It's just a reflection of multinationalism. 

Again, I would prefer FIFA tighten this stuff up and limit the choice around nationality. I appreciate they try to accomodate the modern realities of multinationalism, but it leads to players making professional decisions. Think about it, you can essentially go window shopping as your career develops, but if you couldn't you may be forced to choose the team which really speaks to your heart, so to speak.

And as far as that would go, maybe we'd still lose a Farsi. Didn't he say Algeria was the team which spoke most to his heart, or something like that? Under different rules maybe he never even plays for Canada in futsal or U-23. Or, maybe he does and has to live with his choice. I'd like things to be more that way, personally. Make it more old school.