Lucas Cavallini

[ThiKu]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Not just Spain, ThiKu. Vietnam too. And Bahrein, and Mali. And Iceland if you hadn't noticed last Eurocup. And in NCAA women. And in Venezuela. And even Fiji.

If you compete properly, the team that plays the best football will win most of the time, over the mid to long term. This is a simple fact. My experience also tells me that the higher level clubs will play better soccer at the youth level, they will demand it. When my kid has played against a pro club academy, apart from them being nasty trying to win, they are always, without exception, a talented bunch with rigorous coaching. 

If there is a huge physical difference, that is bad luck, but hey, that will alter every single sport, your pygmies are not going to beat you at basketball. Unless, of course, they clog up the key in defense and all learn to shoot beautiful threes from well behind the line, there is always a way. Did anyone see Japan beat S Africa in the last rugby WC? Beautiful.

I understand that. Canada (and USA) are no other countries but our own - we do not have a soccer culture. We have hockey dads coaching our top youth teams....

You state what your experience has been. I don't deny it, or disagree with it. My experience here is that people will completely ignore development and play to win. Even right now in the current top tier of youth soccer in BC we have coaches telling players to leave their boots at home for an entire week because they are doing fitness as some sort of punishment. Please stop thinking Canada can do what other nations can do. We can't. 

Are the other nations wrong? Of course note. Are we right? We are right for ourselves, right now. When we improve our coach education, maybe we can start to adopt pro-rel at youth level. When we have the Canadian Premier League and youth clubs start to truly grasp what is needed to develop players for a level above local college soccer we may be able to put in place pro-rel in youth soccer. For now....we can't. 

You don't coach here - as far as I can tell - I have coached here many years. I see and hear it first hand every day. We cannot handle pro-rel, we can barely handle playoffs.

[El Hombre]

21 minutes ago, ThiKu said:

I understand that. Canada (and USA) are no other countries but our own - we do not have a soccer culture.

Quoted for truth.  Not sure if the importance of this fact is truly understood/appreciated.

[mrstepp817]

Soccer culture takes decades to build....its not going to happen overnight.....FC Dallas is finally starting the reap the rewards of building a soccer culture and its taken over 20 years (good article here)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2717634-a-soccer-factory-in-footballs-heartland-its-like-its-europe-or-something

 

That being said the USMNT hasn't progressed all that much since 1994....there's better depth but that's really about it..the elite players you need to win big at the International level hasn't come other than one or two guys....that may be another 20 or so years away...

Canada's taking the right steps but if the US model is any indication it will take a while....Canada's got advantages over the US but there's also disadvantages as well..hopefully Canada sees what worked in the US tailors it to a Canadian audience and learns from the mistakes that have been made in the US....

Edited July 5, 2017 by mrstepp817

[Kent]

11 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I played tier 4 soccer in a small town of 5000. When i was young we played kick and run and every town did. When I got to U12 my coach introduced us to a proper possession and passing game. At first we sucked, our first year we were terrible. But by U14 onwards we won our division year after year because we learned how to pass and defend properly. Not a single player on our team was super athletic and we played some very athletic teams. Possession and passing will always beat the athletic teams even at the low levels. 

In the pro/rel world, and with a mindset of firing failing coaches, your team would have been relegated and the coach that was trying to teach you possession could have been fired before you really learned the skills and it started to click for your team.

11 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

Another experience of mine is helping coach u10 soccer. Our season is only 2 months long. My team was again the least athletic and really didn't have the greatest drive. They lost every game almost all year. But we got them to practice passing, dribbling and, positioning. Their end tourney against the same teams they tied 3 of the teams and lost by 1 goal against the other. Coaching possession and positioning even works at low levels. But you have to make it FUN not boring. 

Again, you could have been let go from the team for having a bad season and getting your team relegated.

11 hours ago, BenFisk'sBiggestFan said:

I guess my point is it is really important to teach the fundamentals of soccer at a low level. If kids are taught possession, passing, and basic positioning at a low level they will develop the skills. It deffinately works, the problem is getting coaches to do it. 

I very strongly agree with this last part!

[Saviola7]

Mods maybe spin off a new thread, but ...

I'm generally on the no scores/standings no pro/rel format for youth soccer. Instead of just hoping that bad coaches will get relegated I think the better approach in Canada is to commit to enforcing coaching standards. If a coach is sacrificing development for winning, (s)he should be removed from the team by the technical director.

[Yohan]

Now that this thread has been completely derailed by youth coaching talk, I feel Jason de Vos vid needs to be posted again

On ‎13‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 7:46 PM, Zem said:

"Our system of player development is broken."

Jason de Vos's keynote speech at the Ontario Soccer Summit this past weekend.

 

Or continue the discussion in this thread

http://www.thevoyageurs.org/forums/topic/29653-jason-de-vos-named-csa-director-of-development/?page=4

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Yohan

[grigorio]

Ya get the hell outta here with this timbits soccer talk. Back to dissecting spanish translations. Cavallini speaks the truth but f*ck him for the avenue in which he does it. I loathe this dude and his holier than though attitude, but he's also 100% right so I can't reconcile these feelings. 

[BearcatSA]

11 minutes ago, Yohan said:

Now that this thread has been completely derailed by youth coaching talk, I feel Jason de Vos vid needs to be posted again

Or continue the discussion in this thread

I think the derailment should be discussed in another thread. 

As for Cavalini, with the Olympic team they upset the US in the States then promptly sh*t the bed vs Cuba in the following match, iirc blowing an opportunity to avoid Mexico in the semi (or maybe I'm wrong on that point).  I wonder how he reacted to that team performance at the time?

[theaub]

2 hours ago, grigorio said:

Ya get the hell outta here with this timbits soccer talk. Back to dissecting spanish translations. Cavallini speaks the truth but f*ck him for the avenue in which he does it. I loathe this dude and his holier than though attitude, but he's also 100% right so I can't reconcile these feelings. 

lol this.  I wish he said this stuff to the Canadian media.

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, ThiKu said:

I understand that. Canada (and USA) are no other countries but our own - we do not have a soccer culture. We have hockey dads coaching our top youth teams....

You state what your experience has been. I don't deny it, or disagree with it. My experience here is that people will completely ignore development and play to win. Even right now in the current top tier of youth soccer in BC we have coaches telling players to leave their boots at home for an entire week because they are doing fitness as some sort of punishment. Please stop thinking Canada can do what other nations can do. We can't. 

Are the other nations wrong? Of course note. Are we right? We are right for ourselves, right now. When we improve our coach education, maybe we can start to adopt pro-rel at youth level. When we have the Canadian Premier League and youth clubs start to truly grasp what is needed to develop players for a level above local college soccer we may be able to put in place pro-rel in youth soccer. For now....we can't. 

You don't coach here - as far as I can tell - I have coached here many years. I see and hear it first hand every day. We cannot handle pro-rel, we can barely handle playoffs.

The problem I (and perhaps others) have with what you are saying is that you are purposely isolating "playing to win" from "development", as if the two are always separate.

Your example of doing a week of fitness (without the ball) in top tier BC soccer is a prime example. Who cares if one club prioritizes fitness? You may think "well, that is time they could use on the ball", and I would even agree with that, but if they win as a result I don't see that as some sort of development opportunity lost. In fact, I would say that winning is a big part of development in and of itself, especially when out national team has a well known issue with mental strength in tough games.

Anyways, that is the difference between you and I. Hope this gives you a fresh perspective.

Cheers

Edited July 5, 2017 by Obinna

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

The problem I (and perhaps others) have with what you are saying is that you are purposely isolating "playing to win" from "development", as if the two are always separate.

Your example of doing a week of fitness (without the ball) in top tier BC soccer is a prime example. Who cares if one club prioritizes fitness? You may think "well, that is time they could use on the ball", and I would even agree with that, but if they win as a result I don't see that as some sort of development opportunity lost. In fact, I would say that winning is a big part of development in and of itself, especially when out national team has a well known issue with mental strength in tough games.

Anyways, that is the difference between you and I. Hope this gives you a fresh perspective.

Cheers

I agree on the physical, but only partially, depending how many times a week they train.

It is common for players to do more physical early in a season, and early in the week. Sometimes without the ball. Then, as the game approaches, more technical, and tactics, and not as hard physically. 

Another consideration about physical work: not as a punishment. Nothing that is necessary for a sport should be punitive. Only if there is lack of discipline for kids you could send them on a lap, or to do push-ups.

There is one more thing: u can give players homework, and that could be a 5 km run, or series, and they might even have to demonstrate they did it. If your team is not in shape, you did not prepare them for the season, or they are not taking care of themselves. Or you train too little. 

[Club Linesman]

7 hours ago, grigorio said:

Ya get the hell outta here with this timbits soccer talk. Back to dissecting spanish translations. Cavallini speaks the truth but f*ck him for the avenue in which he does it. I loathe this dude and his holier than though attitude, but he's also 100% right so I can't reconcile these feelings. 

Cavallini has this Gold Cup to prove he is going to bring the passion we are supposedly lacking.  I don't remember him chopping down any Hondurans as they ran up the score, and after those video comments that I am sure his teammates are aware of, he better bring it Friday night.

[Blackjack15]

I would love to see Cavallini make a move to Europe! A promoting side in La Liga (Spain) would be a good fit so he can get the chance to be started in the best league in the world. 

[ThiKu]

On 7/5/2017 at 1:08 PM, Obinna said:

The problem I (and perhaps others) have with what you are saying is that you are purposely isolating "playing to win" from "development", as if the two are always separate.

Your example of doing a week of fitness (without the ball) in top tier BC soccer is a prime example. Who cares if one club prioritizes fitness? You may think "well, that is time they could use on the ball", and I would even agree with that, but if they win as a result I don't see that as some sort of development opportunity lost. In fact, I would say that winning is a big part of development in and of itself, especially when out national team has a well known issue with mental strength in tough games.

Anyways, that is the difference between you and I. Hope this gives you a fresh perspective.

Cheers

I understand your perspective. You and I want the same outcome. A better, tougher, more technical Canada. We just disagree on how the youngest kids should be guided in developing those skills. 

 

If I lived abroad I'd probably agree with your perspective. But, I don't. I live here. And I see how detrimental our "win first, teach second" mentality has been - and I see that people still do that now as soon as a trophy is available, ignoring educating the players along the way.

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, ThiKu said:

I understand your perspective. You and I want the same outcome. A better, tougher, more technical Canada. We just disagree on how the youngest kids should be guided in developing those skills. 

 

If I lived abroad I'd probably agree with your perspective. But, I don't. I live here. And I see how detrimental our "win first, teach second" mentality has been - and I see that people still do that now as soon as a trophy is available, ignoring educating the players along the way.

Neither of us have lived abroad and both of us have experience in coaching / development in Canada to some degree. We both want the same thing but clearly there is some disconnect between us. Perhaps a microcosm of the challenge the CSA faces in getting us all to pull in the same direction?

You see "win first teach second" as detrimental, but I firmly believe those who properly teach are those who ultimately win.

Clearly that is not your experience.

Perhaps at some point your team has lost out on a trophy or medal because (in your opinion) the other team had a "win first" mentality and abandoned their fundamentals. Is this simply the other team playing with more heart? 

Edited July 7, 2017 by Obinna

[LeoH037]

Please stay on topic fellas, link was posted above to continue the development discussion...

And yup, Lucas speaks truth

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 hours ago, Blackjack15 said:

I would love to see Cavallini make a move to Europe! A promoting side in La Liga (Spain) would be a good fit so he can get the chance to be started in the best league in the world. 

If you look at the Uruguayans being signed, most are kids. I mean directly from Uruguay, not from Argentina or another, better league and team. For example Girona, who just promoted to top flight, signed two from Nacional, both u-20s, but not yet for the first team, for the second it seems.

I am not sure he still has European options, due to his age unless he really goes on a tear at Peñarol. He'd do better going to Argentina first to really try his skill.

[Blackjack15]

2 hours ago, LeoH037 said:

Lucas speaks truth

Yeah he's being very honest, whether you like it or not you have to admit he has a valid point. 

[BrennanFan]

Lucas Cavallini to CD Tenerife rumours have surfaced.  Tenerife is currently in the Spanish second tier.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

53 minutes ago, BrennanFan said:

Lucas Cavallini to CD Tenerife rumours have surfaced.  Tenerife is currently in the Spanish second tier.

 

Well they've had Uruguayans before. ..and they just sold Lozano the Honduran to Barcelona for our B team.

Tenerife lost the final promotion playoff to Getafe and IMO were screwed by the ref last game. ...though had chances to win it.

IMO a leading candidate for promotion.

[rob.notenboom]

For those of you who PVRd the game (I think it's also on youtube actually), go back and watch how well Cavallini shields the ball. He put on a clinic in that game. 

Then go watch the USA v Panama game and watch how many times players get their pocket picked simply because they can't shield the ball well. It's fun to watch from that perspective.

[ThiKu]

On 7/6/2017 at 7:05 PM, Obinna said:

Neither of us have lived abroad and both of us have experience in coaching / development in Canada to some degree. We both want the same thing but clearly there is some disconnect between us. Perhaps a microcosm of the challenge the CSA faces in getting us all to pull in the same direction?

You see "win first teach second" as detrimental, but I firmly believe those who properly teach are those who ultimately win.

Clearly that is not your experience.

Perhaps at some point your team has lost out on a trophy or medal because (in your opinion) the other team had a "win first" mentality and abandoned their fundamentals. Is this simply the other team playing with more heart? 

You are correct over the long term. My point is how many quality players are we losing at the ages of 7-13 when coaches are coaching to win then, rather than develop. This is my point. Trust me, we're losing loads.

[badname22]

1 hour ago, rob.notenboom said:

For those of you who PVRd the game (I think it's also on youtube actually), go back and watch how well Cavallini shields the ball. He put on a clinic in that game. 

Then go watch the USA v Panama game and watch how many times players get their pocket picked simply because they can't shield the ball well. It's fun to watch from that perspective.

do you have a link?

[rob.notenboom]

37 minutes ago, badname22 said:

do you have a link?

This says full match, but is actually edited quite a bit and has Spanish commentary. A reasonably complete game though.

 

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

For those of you who PVRd the game (I think it's also on youtube actually), go back and watch how well Cavallini shields the ball. He put on a clinic in that game.

He did a really good job vs FG in that department, for sure,  but there were a couple of  times where I thought he should have moved the ball a little quicker (like he probably does  in his domestic league).  I hope he maintains that level of performance vs the next two opponents.