Lucas Cavallini

[red card]

Cavallini isn`t anything that is being said about CMNT from outside of Canada. From a Big Soccer thread about what`s wrong with Canada, here are a sample of the comments about our heart.

Canada never really puts on the cape. They really should study the US team from the mid-90s, for it had personality and spirit. Canada needs that. I just don't know from where the fire will come - the team lacks heart and leadership.

Canada is dead. They're terrible under pressure, and against Central American teams away, they fold after conceding the first.

There is a mental thing with Canada playing in Central America. They come out with an already defeated look. That day of the 8-1, you could see they were scared. Can't play in Central America scared.

When it comes time to really go for it, they lay on the excuses - the CSA, lack of corporate support, a dispersed population, Concacaf officiating, the supposed anti-Canadian bias of MLS rules, etc. 

I see very little heart and commitment up there. No initiative at all. And the latter really is part of the problem. Sure, the United States can learn a lot from Canada. But the US has a much greater tradition of philanthropy and prescient, daring investment. MLS was born of that. We didn't sit around waiting for someone to start a league where teams from only a few of our cities might play. And we didn't wait for the next Maradona to emerge from his parent's high-rise tenement and lead us to glory.

Canada, for all of its noble progressivism, is, in many ways, a complacent, conservative, dependent society. It doesn't know how to go for it.

Most of all that is a consequence of the monarchist tradition: waiting to be led, looking to those above for solutions, knowing your place. Some of it is virtuous, mind you. Canadians tend to be responsible with money. In coastal New England, in fact, they're considered cheap and joyless. Ask a waiter or bartender. And I didn't mean that they're politically conservative but just conservative in the classic sense: they cling to what they have and don't always see the need to be daring. And it's all so very obvious in their soccer culture.

[Moldy9]

30 minutes ago, red card said:

Cavallini isn`t anything that is being said about CMNT from outside of Canada. From a Big Soccer thread about what`s wrong with Canada, here are a sample of the comments about our heart.

Canada never really puts on the cape. They really should study the US team from the mid-90s, for it had personality and spirit. Canada needs that. I just don't know from where the fire will come - the team lacks heart and leadership.

Canada is dead. They're terrible under pressure, and against Central American teams away, they fold after conceding the first.

There is a mental thing with Canada playing in Central America. They come out with an already defeated look. That day of the 8-1, you could see they were scared. Can't play in Central America scared.

When it comes time to really go for it, they lay on the excuses - the CSA, lack of corporate support, a dispersed population, Concacaf officiating, the supposed anti-Canadian bias of MLS rules, etc. 

I see very little heart and commitment up there. No initiative at all. And the latter really is part of the problem. Sure, the United States can learn a lot from Canada. But the US has a much greater tradition of philanthropy and prescient, daring investment. MLS was born of that. We didn't sit around waiting for someone to start a league where teams from only a few of our cities might play. And we didn't wait for the next Maradona to emerge from his parent's high-rise tenement and lead us to glory.

Canada, for all of its noble progressivism, is, in many ways, a complacent, conservative, dependent society. It doesn't know how to go for it.

Most of all that is a consequence of the monarchist tradition: waiting to be led, looking to those above for solutions, knowing your place. Some of it is virtuous, mind you. Canadians tend to be responsible with money. In coastal New England, in fact, they're considered cheap and joyless. Ask a waiter or bartender. And I didn't mean that they're politically conservative but just conservative in the classic sense: they cling to what they have and don't always see the need to be daring. And it's all so very obvious in their soccer culture.

Ouch... HAPPY 150 EVERYBODY!

 

[dyslexic nam]

What a fucking pretentious bunch of bullshit.  We need to be more like the philanthropic US.  It stems from the monarchy.  No commitment or initiative up here.  No heart. 

Fuck that.  Fuck all of that.  And fuck anyone who agrees with that.

[shermanator]

Seems posters on Big Soccer have never heard of CPL. Great post would read again.

[Moldy9]

Ok in general I find we have demonstrated over the course of our very short history that we do have heart and what the world has come to know us for Canadian Grit. We are a pretty resilient and tough people. However talking about the CSA and those that wear the red shirt is somewhat a different story. I don't want to paint the whole team but you can see some have more will, guts, determination, heart and desire. I can't say why that is. Maybe experience, maybe leadership, maybe not being from Canada but just of descent?

when I think of CAN teams like 86 WC, 2000 GC, 2007 GC those teams may not have been the most talented ('07 probably are most skilled side) but they were confident and had courage. 

[dyslexic nam]

My problem with it is that it is a broad social commentary disguised under a cheap veneer of soccer analysis.  The points made go far beyond soccer, and insofar as that is true the claims are demonstrably false.   If we were so universally complacent, why wouldn't that apply in hockey or rugby?  If our tragic colonial mentality was driving some sort of defeatist culture, why would it only make an appearance in the world of soccer?  And to hold the US up as some inspirational beacon is laughable.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, Moldy9 said:

Ouch... HAPPY 150 EVERYBODY!

 

Exactly why all this 150 years of niceness and peaceloving is load of bull. Which, in fact, it is. 

I'd much prefer to emphasize our nasty side, the side that should make us sit on the bench of the accused--if any of that could get us into a WC.

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

My problem with it is that it is a broad social commentary disguised under a cheap veneer of soccer analysis.  The points made go far beyond soccer, and insofar as that is true the claims are demonstrably false.   If we were so universally complacent, why wouldn't that apply in hockey or rugby?  If our tragic colonial mentality was driving some sort of defeatist culture, why would it only make an appearance in the world of soccer?  And to hold the US up as some inspirational beacon is laughable.  

Fair enough, we are tough in other sports and can spill blood. But we are affected by soccer mom (and dad) mentality in soccer, and Cavallini is right: we don't mind losing. Players, fans, admins, the press, even politicians. I mean, WE do mind, on this board, but most don't. You go to an MLS game and losing is okay even for most fans, no matter. And for the CSA, who have been systematically useless for decades. There is no urgency, no go for the jugular mentality. And we need that. 

I mean, okay, let's be nice in real life, but in soccer, we need to be bad ass. It is just a game, and because it is just a game and means shit all, why not go frigging beserk?

This morn I was watching those reports about Phil Jackson being released by the Knicks, and their owner bragging about not giving a rat's ass about the team, and you could see it clearly: those NY fans are so embarrassed and angry about a team like that consistently underperforming. And so happy for anything that could change things. Okay, NY rage about the Knicks does not help their results much, but the consensus is disgust, because of course the Knicks should be a winning team. A team able to play for championships. Like the Leafs (only there is no disgust from their fans, or very little).

 

[Bertuzzi44]

Cavallini seems to have the Euro snob mentality down to a T. Probably preparing for a move overseas

[dyslexic nam]

Cool.  Feel free to locate yourself in the body of my post.

[jonovision]

It's great to read on this thread that all we need to be a good national team is an attitude adjustment, and not a massive infusion of talent to catch up to our rivals. Scream in someone's face, trash a few hotel rooms, and hello Qatar!

Edited June 29, 2017 by jonovision

[Blackdude]

Now we need to figure out who are the Hanson brothers of Canadian soccer!

[MtlMario]

51 minutes ago, Blackdude said:

Now we need to figure out who are the Hanson brothers of Canadian soccer!

A few months back as a joke I asked if they where American or Canadian and some people though I wanted to create a goon squad for our national team. Be careful.

[SpecialK]

I agree those comments went a little to far, with the Soccer  aspect ... it's kinda true. I really hate to say it. We don't have that killer winning mentality. There is no  expectation, leadership and drive when it comes to Soccer in this country. Prime example we beat England U20 last year,  huge accomplishment, the world was shocked and took notice - .Fikayo Tomori was scouted for England,  Ballou Tabla for Ivory Coast. U20 tournament comes by they lose 2 out the 3 games. Didn't even get out the group. Some major players weren't playing in the tournament because of injuries and Tomori left for England, but Alphonso Davies (  citizenship could have been a problem), Ballou Tabla and Sebastian Breza were not taken why?!? Because the CSA got Bullied by Clubs? And yes those players would have made a huge difference. Then after the failed ugly Tournament rob gale was not fired  immediately and CSA doesn't come out saying a massive review will be done, showing fans and the world and player this is not  tolerated. Same with U17 failed and Paul Stalteri has not been fired and now he's working with the SR. national team ?!?. I'm sorry shit like this  creates a losing mentality and just makes us look bad in the soccer world . If This happen in a European country all hell would break loose,  hockey Canada would have fired everybody after huge failures like that.  You don't have an expectation for our teams to win and win now! Everyone keeps on talking about grass roots in this country  and  we're trying to produce players  for 10 years from now and 2026 World Cup, future is good and we need a plan and grass roots needs to change but hello , did everyone just forget we have Tournaments now and 2022 World Cup ? 

Canada's time is now, we have good players now that can to really do some damage. Let's hold people  accountable and change our culture. It's time to WIN NOW!

Edited June 30, 2017 by SpecialK

[ThiKu]

@SpecialK - FWIW Davies couldn't play as he wasn't a citizen.

 

The rest - I agree with. CSA accepts failure. They accept guys like Stalteri managing our teams our of loyalty, but I think it's actually to save money.

[SpecialK]

5 minutes ago, ThiKu said:

FWIW Davies couldn't play as he wasn't a citizen.

That's very true I totally forgot about that. I  apologize for the Davies part. But a part of me believes if they really took those Tournaments seriously they could have gonna it done. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

It's great to read on this thread that all we need to be a good national team is an attitude adjustment, and not a massive infusion of talent to catch up to our rivals. Scream in someone's face, trash a few hotel rooms, and hello Qatar!

We did not win the Gold Cup with a massive infusion of talent, though. Arguably, we had less. 

If you want we can look at the promotions from 2nd div to top flight in every major soccer nation, and you'll see a couple are big on talent, but there are teams that are very far from it. I mean, your argument as a Sounders fan this time last year would have been "nah, don't have the players to win a championship".

So what do you suggest: wait for the talent? Or be a team lacking talent but with attitude, mentality, cohesion, good tactics?  And what do you figure is more reasonable, cost-efficient and quicker to implement?

[jonovision]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

We did not win the Gold Cup with a massive infusion of talent, though. Arguably, we had less. 

If you want we can look at the promotions from 2nd div to top flight in every major soccer nation, and you'll see a couple are big on talent, but there are teams that are very far from it. I mean, your argument as a Sounders fan this time last year would have been "nah, don't have the players to win a championship".

So what do you suggest: wait for the talent? Or be a team lacking talent but with attitude, mentality, cohesion, good tactics?  And what do you figure is more reasonable, cost-efficient and quicker to implement?

If you're not doing both you're doing it wrong, but I don't equate having angrier, shorter-tempered players with most of the attributes you mention. In fact, I think it would disrupt at least 2 of your 4.

[Vince193]

For those who want to say that Canada has heart, are you really sure? Are you in the minds of the players? We as supporters for sure have heart, we love our team to the point we post on forums and get into arguments with one another. Our results on the field show otherwise however.

I feel though the CSA is a big part of it. There is no real accountability. The U20s at the moment are still coached by Rob Gale who has failed in the last two cycles to get any sort of positive results at the CONCACAF Championships, he should have been gone ages ago. 

The mentality is changing, and young guys like Davies are spearheading it, but it hasn't disappeared.

Also some food for thought. The Canadian national team has arguably gotten worse since TFC entered the league in 2007.

[jonovision]

5 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

For those who want to say that Canada has heart, are you really sure? Are you in the minds of the players? We as supporters for sure have heart, we love our team to the point we post on forums and get into arguments with one another. Our results on the field show otherwise however.

I'm not sure, and neither can you or anyone else be certain of the contrary. But I wouldn't support this team if I thought the players didn't care. And I don't think there's anything particular about Canada that should make our players care any more or less than in any other country. 

And the more people learn about and analyze sports, the more we learn that "intangibles" are intangible because they make no meaningful impact on results, at least relative to luck, skill and tactics. These latter two, and especially tactics, are where we've been lacking for at least the last 15 years.

Edited June 29, 2017 by jonovision

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 minutes ago, jonovision said:

If you're not doing both you're doing it wrong, but I don't equate having angrier, shorter-tempered players with most of the attributes you mention. In fact, I think it would disrupt at least 2 of your 4.

Okay, of course. Anger has to be controlled, you have to be managing it and using it. As for Cavallini, I have the suspicion that the battles striker-defender in Uruguay are pretty vicious, they are probably kicking the shit out of each other most games. 

That said, I have been spouting a theory for a few years (especially to my kid, to 'inspire' him), about how frequently strikers get a yellow, then score. Or score, then get a yellow.  I have no statistical data, though it happens a lot. I think that often you go in hard, get booked, the adrenalin rises, you get a goal. Or the goal first, then a late tackle. Just by looking at tons of livescore results over the years it often glares out at me. 

[dyslexic nam]

48 minutes ago, Vince193 said:

For those who want to say that Canada has heart, are you really sure? Are you in the minds of the players? We as supporters for sure have heart, we love our team to the point we post on forums and get into arguments with one another. Our results on the field show otherwise however.

I feel though the CSA is a big part of it. There is no real accountability. The U20s at the moment are still coached by Rob Gale who has failed in the last two cycles to get any sort of positive results at the CONCACAF Championships, he should have been gone ages ago. 

The mentality is changing, and young guys like Davies are spearheading it, but it hasn't disappeared.

Also some food for thought. The Canadian national team has arguably gotten worse since TFC entered the league in 2007.

My point is that the bullshit commentary goes far broader than a discussion of soccer.  It isn't about the mentality of the players - unless you think the monarchy, philanthropy and somehow being seen as "cheap and joyless" in New England are a driving force behind our underperformance on a South American soccer pitch.  The quote is really trying to generously describe our flaws as a country.  And as a comparator they offer up the inspiration of a nouveau riche footy state like the US, with its litany of deep social issues?  What a fucking joke.  

Want to talk about what is holding back our national soccer program?  I am happy to engage and will concede some pretty big historical blindspots.  But if you endorse that kind of quoted bullshit social commentary on here - especially from a country that just elected the orange asshole, has deeply systemic race issues, and enjoys the most gun violence in the world - then I am going to have an issue with it.

Edited June 29, 2017 by dyslexic nam

[SpecialK]

On 2017-06-29 at 11:40 AM, Vince193 said:

I feel though the CSA is a big part of it. There is no real accountability. The U20s at the moment are still coached by Rob Gale who has failed in the last two cycles to get any sort of positive results at the CONCACAF Championships, he should have been gone ages ago. 

But we the fans and media, don't hold them accountable. The soccer media in this country is small yes but they don't ask the tough questions. I watch/listen to interviews and they just ask fluff questions. 

To : James Sharman, Kristian Jack, ,Duane Rollins, Daniel Squizzato, Matt and the red nation gang, Kevin Laramee, Anthony Totera and John Molinaro etc.

please ask the tough questions like :

 How is the process going/ any updates on  Cristante, Ferreira and Gutiérrez?

What is being done keep players from leaving Canada to other nations ?

With the failures of U-17 and U-20 why are coaches sill with the program? U-17 was filled with MLS  academies  why wasn't any European players  chosen ? 

with the rumours going around with Canada playing England, is Canada going to be  playing a top 20 team in the near future? 

 why hasn't soccer Canada created a council of excellence like other major sports organizations like basketball Canada , hockey Canada . Most councils are formed with former players,managers, executives to help advise can guide and give advice and  recommendations to the CSA? 

Canada is now playing more friendlies but most nations will play 2 games per break, why is Canada only playing 1?

There are players playing in European  Academies that playing well and winning awards like Tristan Jumeau, did the CSA know about him ? If no why ? What is being done to make sure players are not falling  through the cracks of the national team programs.  Is there a scouting department/ team ? If not maybe create one and it good  opportunities to bring for  formal retired players in to scout?

what are the  salaries of the CSA board directors ?

 is there a conflict of interest of the a CSA board member who is owner of a professional soccer club ?

 There are top executives in the soccer world Who are Canadian or who are related to Canada in some way, have they been ask to be help/join the CSA? 

What is the CSA doing to  promote Canadian players and the Canadian national program ? 

Tough questions like that and  those questions are just off the top of my head. 

So please Canada soccer media please hold the CSA to the fire ! It will help make soccer in Canada better.

And fans remember the CSA uses tax payers dollars and  represent Canada they must be accountable to us! 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2017 by SpecialK

[Yoginess]

Somewhat of an aside, I think there are a lot of human biases when watching sports and I think killer instinct is a big one. I have no doubt having the right mentality, being cut-throat and ruthless has its advantages but I think it's way overestimated. I think teams which are better give the allusion of having a killer instinct because they are more often able to produce a goal.. because they are better. 

The German national team seems be a team with a "killer instinct" but do they score those insurance goals and late winner because of their mentality or because they are more talented? Do we NOT have this "killer instinct" because our players are mentality weak or because we simply can't produce a goal ever anyways?

See pt2 in my soapbox rant about how faster players are deemed to have  more heart simply because they are able to win races to the ball against slower players.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, Yoginess said:

Somewhat of an aside, I think there are a lot of human biases when watching sports and I think killer instinct is a big one. I have no doubt having the right mentality, being cut-throat and ruthless has its advantages but I think it's way overestimated. I think teams which are better give the allusion of having a killer instinct because they are more often able to produce a goal.. because they are better. 
------
See pt2 in my soapbox rant about how faster players are deemed to have  more heart simply because they are able to win races to the ball against slower players.

Very nice point about fast players outrunning slower and seeming to be more intense for it, good one.

Mentality: we do not have even a properly competitive youth environment, so we cannot build mentality. We have no accountability anywhere. We have HP leagues where the teams are set in stone and other clubs, with better pedigree, can´t get in. As long as we cannot pit all 12 year olds in Oshawa or the Fraser Valley against each other and let the quality rise, we will never know who is doing a good job or who is really a competent player. And this system favours the economic interests of clubs who don't want their weaknessnes to be exposed

It is a sort of trust, in the economic sense, of mediocrity. 

This explains why unrecognized players in Canada can go to Europe as teens and be picked out. It also explains whey scouting is hard in Canada. It is not the distances, it is the system: pit the best against each other the scouts can go watch them. Hide them away in private or MLS academies and not play top rivals, you really don't know.

We don't have relegation, either. Having watched my kid play in a pro-rel youth system, I can assure you the intensity is so much higher, except on the bottom division unless you are being expected to promote by the club. He plays on a modest club, but it aspires to more, tries to unseat stronger clubs from the same part of town, tries to promote as many teams as possible to offer better quality play to those coming in. I can say when they are in a promotion or relegation battle the intensity and pressure is high, and stressful, and really matters to the club--and he enjoys it way more, as do they all.