Forge FC - 2024 Season Thread

[Bison44]

10 minutes ago, narduch said:

If he had agreed on personal terms with Memphis that means Forge gave him permission to talk to them.

It sounds like the transfer was agreed on and then Forge balked

Personal terms between Henry and Memphis is great but they still have to meet Forges terms.  If you want him, pay for him....you are willing to give him better wages, kick in the 100K to Forge for the transfer.  If not, wait until he is on a free transfer you cheap skate.  

[shermanator]

Daan Klomp and Triston Henry are in similar scenarios, both having accomplished everything they can in this league and ready for the next move. Both had their club options exercised for 2024. Henry had a transfer out of CPL fall through while Klomp hasn't had a transfer out of CPL materialize.

Daan Klomp has been at club events all offseason, including supporters events, and will lead Cavalry's backline in CONCACAF in 11 days. 

Triston Henry has gone AWOL.

Speaks volumes of Henry's character that he's sitting at home rather than honouring the contract he signed. But after watching him mope off the pitch at Spruce Meadows on a few occasions it's not surprising.

[phil03]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

How's Henry's green card issues Forge problem? He's an adult, he bears the responsibility for his decision/gamble. I disagree that Forge should sell at lower value just because he gambled wrong. 

Again, refusing to report to preseason and the game against Chivas is unprofessional in my opinion. He missed an opportunity to raise his value and get the state move later during the season.

I agree. Like I said in my first post on the subject, I believe Forge's stance on the issue is 100% fair.

However, I do think its also worth making a distinction between whether something is fair on an ethical (for lack of a better term) level and whether its a smart move on a practical level, and on that level the result of them tacking a hardline doesn't look so good.

Right now they are deprived of Henri's service without them getting the money that they want just as much as if they had accepted Memphis' offer, their relationship with him has broken down badly enough that this state of affair is unlikely to change, they have a massive hole in their line ups and a public mess on their hands. Hence why I think they'd have been better bitting the bullet and trying to find a replacement in the off season. Unfair to them? Sure, but still the cold hard practical reality IMO.

Edited February 11 by phil03

[Ftduck]

I could see Forge wanting a price they could advertise/flaunt for a golden glove winner and arguably one of the best keepers in league history. Makes the D1 status look like it's accurate. Hard to argue against a player when the league average salaries are so low though. Oh drama. At least it's got everyone talking. April can't come soon enough!

[rydermike]

I feel like every cpl deal has option years. Have a feeling that every cpl deal needs one or something (or no one year deals or something).  Seems like it's in every press release. Since Henry extended in 2023, maybe they agreed on a 1+1 with an understanding that the option year was only there because it was mandated by the league, but that they would ignore it. Then forge didn't. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Are CPL automatic club options like MLS club options? IE, illegal under FIFA rules?

I find it odd people are defending an automatic club option, binding a player to a contract, when they are not allowed under FIFA rules. I don't know if this is the case, but regardless: challenge the damn things and go to your new club, let's see if the CPL will have the same cowardly, stonewalling attitude as MLS.

Now if I am wrong, and these options are different (ie legal), I take it all back. 

If I'm not, the message has to be: don't sign for Forge, it's a dead end and they won't let you go on to a better contract and better terms after years of service. 

Edited February 11 by Unnamed Trialist

[Metro]

- deleted -

Edited February 12 by Metro

[Ansem]

On 2/11/2024 at 7:51 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

Are CPL automatic club options like MLS club options? IE, illegal under FIFA rules?

I find it odd people are defending an automatic club option, binding a player to a contract, when they are not allowed under FIFA rules. I don't know if this is the case, but regardless: challenge the damn things and go to your new club, let's see if the CPL will have the same cowardly, stonewalling attitude as MLS.

Now if I am wrong, and these options are different (ie legal), I take it all back. 

If I'm not, the message has to be: don't sign for Forge, it's a dead end and they won't let you go on to a better contract and better terms after years of service. 

It's illegal under FIFA if the option year doesn't come with a sufficient pay increase. As long as Forge increase Henry adequately - the optional year from Forge is valid

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, Ansem said:

It's illegal under FIFA if the option year doesn't come with a sufficient pay increase. As long as Forge increase Henry adequately - the optional year from Forge is valid

Are you sure? I was of the understanding that automatic options, activated unilaterally by a club (usual) or a player (far less common), were not allowed in FIFA rules. And that pay alteration as a consequence of that automatic option was not at all an factor that could legally justify exercising the option (just one perhaps used by clubs as an incentive for a player they would prefer not to leave). 

MLS has these options in their books, players defy them (famously, Camilo Sanvezzo at Whitecaps and Larin at Orlando); and because MLS realise if they took cases to arbitration at FIFA or the CAS they'd lose, they never contest them. The consequence is that, recognising some contractual rights, the receiving club is expected or required to pay some sort of fee. Querétaro paid Caps and Besiktas paid Orlando, but I am not sure how that is determined.

Where it all gets tricky is that MLS players sign contracts with automatic club options, and for that reason, these payments are required. The players sign with options that FIFA would not uphold, but legally they bind to a point, requiring the payments to be made. As otherwise, they'd go on free transfers, they would be fully null clauses and the player could refuse the club option, and sign for a new team. 

Where it gets even trickier: Henry says he's going south of the border just the same, he can legally break the club option clause, his new club could be required to pay. But Forge could lobby the CSA to block the international transfer, so he would not be able to sign until the question was resolved.

Edited February 12 by Unnamed Trialist

[Cheeta]

Sure the option year rules will be written in stone once a collective agreement is finalized.  Might be a sticking point actually.  Very much see the league, regardless of what FIFA allows, wanting it written into every contract.  Trying to be a selling league and all.  Players may not be adverse to it either, so long as conditions are agreeable.

Would say Valour are developing a reputation for not exercising an option on players in order to avoid paying the option year wages.  Would say that's part of what's built Valour's reputation amongst the league's players and agents.  You don't want to go there, Bobby.  Trust me.

 

 

[MtlMario]

On 2/4/2024 at 9:30 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Do you really not understand that being upset with the CSA and others within Canada's pro soccer fraternity is not the same thing as being upset with Canada as a country? The fact Ivan Mitrovic was so upset is a pretty strong indication of what the Mitrovic family's first choice was in terms of national team representation.

Maybe my question was if he moved out to be closer to his son? What makes you the specialist know it all of that family?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Hence your emoticon response to the "Doubtful" comment from Narduch afterwards? Who are you trying to kid. No idea what the other comment is even getting at. I'll bear in mind an old saying from the Serbo-Croat language though that sums up how I feel about all the people on here who baited Ivan Mitrovic rather than trying to constructively persuade him that the CMNT was the better way to go for his son, Idi u tri picke materine. It can roughly be translated as To err is Human in English.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, Cheeta said:

Sure the option year rules will be written in stone once a collective agreement is finalized.  Might be a sticking point actually.  Very much see the league, regardless of what FIFA allows, wanting it written into every contract.  Trying to be a selling league and all.  Players may not be adverse to it either, so long as conditions are agreeable.

Would say Valour are developing a reputation for not exercising an option on players in order to avoid paying the option year wages.  Would say that's part of what's built Valour's reputation amongst the league's players and agents.  You don't want to go there, Bobby.  Trust me.

 

If it's one plus one, I can understand someone might argue it isn't bad. The team opts to have you another year and you are only stuck on a lesser contract for a season, if you really think it is too low. Though I think there should be reciprocity in all contracts, and club options are in principle an abuse. 

If you had a ridiculous breakout 1st year, there will likely be offers on the table and the club might take them. So there is that way out too.

All the players bouncing around between these 8 clubs in CPL, with what are likely only marginally better deals from one club to another, could be a sign that players do not clearly perceive they have a mid-term path at a club, and try another. 

[MtlMario]

20 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

 It can roughly be translated as To err is Human in English.

You certainly know about that.

[longlugan]

On 2/12/2024 at 2:34 PM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Hence your emoticon response to the "Doubtful" comment from Narduch afterwards? Who are you trying to kid. No idea what the other comment is even getting at. I'll bear in mind an old saying from the Serbo-Croat language though that sums up how I feel about all the people on here who baited Ivan Mitrovic rather than trying to constructively persuade him that the CMNT was the better way to go for his son, Idi u tri picke materine. It can roughly be translated as To err is Human in English.

So you're a douchebag in multiple languages?

[nolando]

On 2/12/2024 at 1:03 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

If it's one plus one, I can understand someone might argue it isn't bad. The team opts to have you another year and you are only stuck on a lesser contract for a season, if you really think it is too low. Though I think there should be reciprocity in all contracts, and club options are in principle an abuse. 

If you had a ridiculous breakout 1st year, there will likely be offers on the table and the club might take them. So there is that way out too.

All the players bouncing around between these 8 clubs in CPL, with what are likely only marginally better deals from one club to another, could be a sign that players do not clearly perceive they have a mid-term path at a club, and try another. 

An aside, but is Fisk the first player to reach a total of four CPL clubs?

[Unnamed Trialist]

37 minutes ago, nolando said:

An aside, but is Fisk the first player to reach a total of four CPL clubs?

Interesting. And would you say his career demonstrates a clear upward path?

On an average CPL salary, you probably should be doing other work during the year. Or using the relative stability of being a Canadian in Canada to study something. Or both.

[K Edgar]

finally...

[Bison44]

I guess the conspiracy theorists can relax a bit now eh??  

[Ansem]

I'm almost afraid to ask - he's signing to Nashville for free?

If so, clubs needs to start taking some risks and award longer contracts

[SthMelbRed]

7 hours ago, Ansem said:

I'm almost afraid to ask - he's signing to Nashville for free?

If so, clubs needs to start taking some risks and award longer contracts

CSA will be sending a bill to Nashville for FIFA-mandated training compensation, which will then be redistributed to his previous clubs, no? I believe that's the case when clubs sign a player that's under 23.

[rydermike]

On 2/10/2024 at 5:50 PM, narduch said:

If he had agreed on personal terms with Memphis that means Forge gave him permission to talk to them.

I don't think you need permission in soccer. Apparently Davies has a deal with Madrid, but Madrid has no deal with Bayern. Not to mention Mbappe has reportedly had deals with Madrid as well. The team needs to reach a deal as well, but I don't think permission is necessary, especially in the final year of a contract, since players can sign deals ahead of expiration (like Insigne with Toronto)

[SthMelbRed]

1 hour ago, rydermike said:

I don't think you need permission in soccer. Apparently Davies has a deal with Madrid, but Madrid has no deal with Bayern. Not to mention Mbappe has reportedly had deals with Madrid as well. The team needs to reach a deal as well, but I don't think permission is necessary, especially in the final year of a contract, since players can sign deals ahead of expiration (like Insigne with Toronto)

Officially, you do, unless you're in the final 6 months of your contract and the potential new club is in another country. Unofficially, these things are done through intermediaries so that all parties have plausible deniability of improper conduct. No club complains too much since they're all up to it, themselves.

[red card]

Total Football Analysis says Smyrniotis is not married to any one system, using both a 3-4-1-2 and a 4-1-4-1 over the course of the season. 

The priority was principles rather than formations. Forge was one of the top teams in possession and had the best xGA in the league at 28.8. Structural integrity was fundamental for Smyrniotis’ side. Their rest defence made it difficult for opponents to counterattack and made for quicker transitions to the counterpress.

Forge led the CPL in crosses P90 with 14.49. Looking at their crossing map, they were exceptional at sending those final balls from inside the box or outside it. They also had a penchant for early crosses, which is where the significance of that high central overload comes into play.

Though, the best part is maybe the depiction of Bobby's face.

 

[yothat2]

On 2/10/2024 at 4:42 PM, shermanator said:

Daan Klomp and Triston Henry are in similar scenarios, both having accomplished everything they can in this league and ready for the next move. Both had their club options exercised for 2024. Henry had a transfer out of CPL fall through while Klomp hasn't had a transfer out of CPL materialize.

Daan Klomp has been at club events all offseason, including supporters events, and will lead Cavalry's backline in CONCACAF in 11 days. 

Triston Henry has gone AWOL.

Speaks volumes of Henry's character that he's sitting at home rather than honouring the contract he signed. But after watching him mope off the pitch at Spruce Meadows on a few occasions it's not surprising.

Why not sell him for $50k or so ...he's replaceable and 30 + 

 

Can find another goalie on loan