Luca Koleosho

[RS]

10 hours ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

Someone remind me how active Canada's U20 team is again?

Ok. Here's a list of upcoming games:

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

14 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I guess this is good for us- he plays for our NT, but US’s U20s. This basically forces the US to call him up to their senior team before we do, which they’ve shown to be reluctant to do. 

Yes. This is good for us.

He isn't close to making the Italian senior team so this buys us more time to eventually get him to commit to Canada in 2025/2026.

But in the meantime...

[InglewoodJack]

5 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Yes. This is good for us.

He isn't close to making the Italian senior team so this buys us more time to eventually get him to commit to Canada in 2025/2026.

But in the meantime...

I wonder what would do better for his marketing in Canada- playing for us or for Italy? I know they'd hang the full wall Koleosho banner at Olympico in Montreal if he ever played a senior game for Italy.

[Sechat23]

I don't think he will be cap tied to Italy since his only going for four days. Canada might be his third choice because of everything that has happened and is happing.

[Footyeh]

49 minutes ago, Dominic94 said:

What’s this upside on this guy ? Are we talking a world class talent, a Ziyech ? Or are we talking MLS DP level ?

Haha, I wish I had these answers!  Both would be incredible achievements.  

At the end of the day, the player is still very young.  He could make it to a high level, he can bomb out, or he could have a successful career but not at levels we might hope for.  But clearly his club has seen something in him to give him his debut in arguably the 2nd best league in Europe and want to promote him.  And in turn, 3 national federations are clearly seeing something in him that interests them as well.

[Dominic94]

2 minutes ago, Footyeh said:

Haha, I wish I had these answers!  Both would be incredible achievements.  

At the end of the day, the player is still very young.  He could make it to a high level, he can bomb out, or he could have a successful career but not at levels we might hope for.  But clearly his club has seen something in him to give him his debut in arguably the 2nd best league in Europe and want to promote him.  And in turn, 3 national federations are clearly seeing something in him that interests them as well.

I love projecting youth players, if only this was like Fido’s where they have a potential grade 

[costarg]

I won't mention names, but either way it goes, this guy seems a lot more mature, level headed and smarter than the Mitrovic and Flores clans.  

Oops, I mentioned didn't I.....

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, Sechat23 said:

I don't think he will be cap tied to Italy since his only going for four days. Canada might be his third choice because of everything that has happened and is happing.

He's going to a camp to prepare for the European u-19 qualifying round later this month. So within a few weeks he could be committed to Italy for youth team purposes.

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, Sechat23 said:

I don't think he will be cap tied to Italy since his only going for four days. Canada might be his third choice because of everything that has happened and is happing.

This may sound weird, but I think Canada is 3rd choice but also has the advantage over the USA. This will be especially true if he sticks with Italy U-20. If he goes to USA U-20 it's advantage USA for sure. For Canadians, we need to hope he sticks with Italy right now. 

The reason it would be advantage Canada if he goes Italian is because it rules out anymore youth games for USA, which takes away their chance to twist his arm. The moment he is officially Italian it's either senior Canada or senior USA, and that's where Canada has the advantage. He already has first hand experience with our group and that relationship works both ways. Canada will be more likely to call Koleosho all things being equal. The line of communication will be easier and more open. 

The X factor is if Koleosho remains committed to trying the USA. I'd like to think playing for Italy signals this "commitment" is less important than before. Let's see what happens....

Oh, of course I cannot discount him playing for Italy senior team. Of course there is a remote possibilty there. Need to acknowledge that.

[Sechat23]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

He's going to a camp to prepare for the European u-19 qualifying round later this month. So within a few weeks he could be committed to Italy for youth team purposes.

In my eye, Luca is doing the same thing Marcelo Flores did with Mexico and Canada. 

He needs to make a decision when this four-day camp ends. 

[Ottawafan]

Has to be tough for duals to see their options and know the CSA is an amateur hour comedy show. 

[Canadian Chuck]

22 hours ago, Obinna said:

This may sound weird, but I think Canada is 3rd choice but also has the advantage over the USA. This will be especially true if he sticks with Italy U-20. If he goes to USA U-20 it's advantage USA for sure. For Canadians, we need to hope he sticks with Italy right now. 

The reason it would be advantage Canada if he goes Italian is because it rules out anymore youth games for USA, which takes away their chance to twist his arm. The moment he is officially Italian it's either senior Canada or senior USA, and that's where Canada has the advantage. He already has first hand experience with our group and that relationship works both ways. Canada will be more likely to call Koleosho all things being equal. The line of communication will be easier and more open. 

The X factor is if Koleosho remains committed to trying the USA. I'd like to think playing for Italy signals this "commitment" is less important than before. Let's see what happens....

Oh, of course I cannot discount him playing for Italy senior team. Of course there is a remote possibilty there. Need to acknowledge that.

One big question here is if Italy U19 is enough for Koleosho. That is who he's been called up to, not the U20s.

He'd pick Italy U20 over US U20, sure. But making that stacked Italy U20 pool is far from guaranteed. They qualified out of a tough UEFA group that included France. Wonder if he would settle for Italy U19 over a US U20 World Cup spot if he does not get invited to Italy U20s.

[DrunkOffPunch]

On 3/3/2023 at 10:18 AM, Obinna said:

 

I don't know how I would feel if I were a USMNT fan:

 

U20 WC falls outside of fifa windows. From what I’ve heard he’d probably be called up if he doesn’t choose Italy. IMO u20s and MNT both lack speed at the wing to stretch the defense. Hard to say what his future holds. If he’s not getting decent first team minutes next year I’d say a loan is his best option. 
 

Had Canada cap tied him in one of the upcoming windows not much the US could do, he’s not ready for international soccer.

[Obinna]

6 hours ago, DrunkOffPunch said:

U20 WC falls outside of fifa windows. From what I’ve heard he’d probably be called up if he doesn’t choose Italy. IMO u20s and MNT both lack speed at the wing to stretch the defense. Hard to say what his future holds. If he’s not getting decent first team minutes next year I’d say a loan is his best option. 
 

Had Canada cap tied him in one of the upcoming windows not much the US could do, he’s not ready for international soccer.

One interesting thing is that Herdman said in an interview that he'll be looking to get Koleosho minutes (Uruguay/Qatar camp). That obviously didn't happen and I just wonder what happened there. Was it a case of Kolesosho not being ready for international soccer in the sense he never wanted to commit, or was it the case of not being ready in the sense of maturity, experience, etc. Clearly he's talented, but Canada was preparing for the World Cup. They were friendlies, but that was the focus. Herdman's comments could have just been throw away. He has a reputation of being "savy" when it comes to interviews and media. I don't know whether that claim is overblown, but it's there. Either way, it just adds more mystery and confusion as to what will become of Koleosho on the international soccer scene.

As for the club scene, he hasn't really broken through fully with Espanyol and sure he's had injuries but he's also been sniffing around the first team for a while now. Perhaps we should also be questioning what level of a prospect he is. Davies scored his first goal for Bayern at this age. David was scoring regularly in Belgium. He's probably not that level of prospect. Maybe he's playing for Italy youth (or possibly the USA youth) because that's where he is in his development. Maybe not being ready to play for Canada wasn't all down to him. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, Obinna said:

One interesting thing is that Herdman said in an interview that he'll be looking to get Koleosho minutes (Uruguay/Qatar camp). That obviously didn't happen and I just wonder what happened there. Was it a case of Kolesosho not being ready for international soccer in the sense he never wanted to commit, or was it the case of not being ready in the sense of maturity, experience, etc. Clearly he's talented, but Canada was preparing for the World Cup. They were friendlies, but that was the focus. Herdman's comments could have just been throw away. He has a reputation of being "savy" when it comes to interviews and media. I don't know whether that claim is overblown, but it's there. Either way, it just adds more mystery and confusion as to what will become of Koleosho on the international soccer scene.

As for the club scene, he hasn't really broken through fully with Espanyol and sure he's had injuries but he's also been sniffing around the first team for a while now. Perhaps we should also be questioning what level of a prospect he is. Davies scored his first goal for Bayern at this age. David was scoring regularly in Belgium. He's probably not that level of prospect. Maybe he's playing for Italy youth (or possibly the USA youth) because that's where he is in his development. Maybe not being ready to play for Canada wasn't all down to him. 

Just to be clear, he went into our September camp injured. The same ankle injury they took a bit lightly at Espanyol, and ended up sidelining him for a few months. I say this because Espanyol let him go when likely they shouldn't have.

I'm not sure it's fair to say he's slipped this year, it's transitional. Last year he was a u-19 player with few B team minutes and a short 1st team cameo. This year he plays for the B when he's still u-19 eligible, and has gotten more 1 team minutes. But he's only been healthy for about 10 weeks. 

He's wasn't supposed to be with the group in Valladolid and the B plays in an hour.

Edit:

 

 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Pasta88]

Unpopular opinion but I don’t want this kid. He should play for the US considering that’s where he grew up playing soccer before moving to Spain.

International soccer is getting ridiculous with how many countries trot out line-ups of players they played no part in developing. What is even the point of international soccer then? The rules should be stricter and require players to have at least played a couple of years of youth soccer in the country they wish to represent.

That’s one thing that made the Canadian team so special this cycle. Nearly all were developed in Canada outside of Wotherspoon (who barely played) and Eustáquio and Ugbo (who both at least spent some soccer aged years in Canada). I’d rather lose with a team of players that were developed in Canada* than become a country like the US where they are constantly trying to recruit players who grew up abroad and are only American because they were born there or have an American parent.

*which would also mean that if I were making the rules, players like Mitrovic and Flores would be representing Canada

[Sechat23]

4 hours ago, Pasta88 said:

Unpopular opinion but I don’t want this kid. He should play for the US considering that’s where he grew up playing soccer before moving to Spain.

International soccer is getting ridiculous with how many countries trot out line-ups of players they played no part in developing. What is even the point of international soccer then? The rules should be stricter and require players to have at least played a couple of years of youth soccer in the country they wish to represent.

That’s one thing that made the Canadian team so special this cycle. Nearly all were developed in Canada outside of Wotherspoon (who barely played) and Eustáquio and Ugbo (who both at least spent some soccer aged years in Canada). I’d rather lose with a team of players that were developed in Canada* than become a country like the US where they are constantly trying to recruit players who grew up abroad and are only American because they were born there or have an American parent.

*which would also mean that if I were making the rules, players like Mitrovic and Flores would be representing Canada

The only two counties that Luca has in mind are the USA and Italy. Canada is not really an option for him rn.

As of today, players can't leave to a different country for soccer reasons until they are 18 if they are not dual nat. It's a very hard thing to fix. 

For me, I like what the USA did for this cycle. We can't start to act like we have many players that are as good as the ones that play for the US. Questions should be, do you want to see a team that can win or a team that is full of MLS academy players and can't win outside of CONCACAF?

[frmr]

25 minutes ago, Sechat23 said:

The only two counties that Luca has in mind are the USA and Italy. Canada is not really an option for him rn.

As of today, players can't leave to a different country for soccer reasons until they are 18 if they are not dual nat. It's a very hard thing to fix. 

For me, I like what the USA did for this cycle. We can't start to act like we have many players that are as good as the ones that play for the US. Questions should be, do you want to see a team that can win or a team that is full of MLS academy players and can't win outside of CONCACAF?

Sorry, what ?

[phresh]

8 minutes ago, Sechat23 said:

The only two counties that Luca has in mind are the USA and Italy. Canada is not really an option for him rn.

Questions should be, do you want to see a team that can win or a team that is full of MLS academy players and can't win outside of CONCACAF?

If Luca only had Italy and the US on his mind, why did he go on an American soccer podcast and specifically mention that he was Canadian-eligible, not to mention that he's been to Canadian camps, seems to have enjoyed his time there, and looks up to Alphonso Davies.

What exactly has the US won outside of Concacaf? 

The MLS academy comment is bizarre. Our starting lineup at the World Cup featured one MLS developed player. He also happens to be one of the greatest players in the history of Concacaf, at the age of 22. The US had 2 MLS developed players on their starting lineup, one of them being Weston McKennie, who's an undisputed starter, and the other being Tyler Adams, who was arguably the best American player at the tournament. Gio Reyna is another former MLS academy guy, and is considered one of the most talented players the states have ever produced. There were more MLS produced players on the US team than the Canadian team so really, you're just contradicting yourself.

[Sechat23]

48 minutes ago, phresh said:

If Luca only had Italy and the US on his mind, why did he go on an American soccer podcast and specifically mention that he was Canadian-eligible, not to mention that he's been to Canadian camps, seems to have enjoyed his time there, and looks up to Alphonso Davies.

What exactly has the US won outside of Concacaf? 

The MLS academy comment is bizarre. Our starting lineup at the World Cup featured one MLS developed player. He also happens to be one of the greatest players in the history of Concacaf, at the age of 22. The US had 2 MLS developed players on their starting lineup, one of them being Weston McKennie, who's an undisputed starter, and the other being Tyler Adams, who was arguably the best American player at the tournament. Gio Reyna is another former MLS academy guy, and is considered one of the most talented players the states have ever produced. There were more MLS produced players on the US team than the Canadian team so really, you're just contradicting yourself.

He did say that before Canada don't make it to the U20 WC and U23 Olympics. I don't think his good enough for the first team. So his two options are USA and Italy. If Canada would have made it then Luca would have Canada in his mind.

Hard question to answer. It's the same way as asking why should a coach be American.

[phresh]

59 minutes ago, Sechat23 said:

He did say that before Canada don't make it to the U20 WC and U23 Olympics. I don't think his good enough for the first team. So his two options are USA and Italy. If Canada would have made it then Luca would have Canada in his mind.

Hard question to answer. It's the same way as asking why should a coach be American.

Playing for either of those countries at youth tournaments wouldn't permanently cap-tie him.

[Pasta88]

2 hours ago, Sechat23 said:

The only two counties that Luca has in mind are the USA and Italy. Canada is not really an option for him rn.

As of today, players can't leave to a different country for soccer reasons until they are 18 if they are not dual nat. It's a very hard thing to fix. 

For me, I like what the USA did for this cycle. We can't start to act like we have many players that are as good as the ones that play for the US. Questions should be, do you want to see a team that can win or a team that is full of MLS academy players and can't win outside of CONCACAF?

Give me a team full of Canadian trained players and enjoy the highs and lows. What’s the point otherwise? As an extreme, if we had a team that entirely consisted of Tomori’s/ Koleosho’s/other players raised and trained abroad and went on a deep WC run, it says absolutely nothing about Canadian soccer and Canadian soccer players.

It’s also funny seeing Americans go on about how much American soccer has improved and turned the corner, and then in the same vain they’ll post a 2026 WC lineup where half the players never kicked a ball in the US until representing a national team. Musah, Balogun, Dest, Robinson, Carter-Vickers, etc. Baffles me. 

[Sechat23]

3 hours ago, phresh said:

Playing for either of those countries at youth tournaments wouldn't permanently cap-tie him.

Yes, that's true. 

They do give you an advantage over them. Unless a country sleeps on them, they most likely stay with that country.

 

[Sechat23]

3 hours ago, Pasta88 said:

Give me a team full of Canadian trained players and enjoy the highs and lows. What’s the point otherwise? As an extreme, if we had a team that entirely consisted of Tomori’s/ Koleosho’s/other players raised and trained abroad and went on a deep WC run, it says absolutely nothing about Canadian soccer and Canadian soccer players.

It’s also funny seeing Americans go on about how much American soccer has improved and turned the corner, and then in the same vain they’ll post a 2026 WC lineup where half the players never kicked a ball in the US until representing a national team. Musah, Balogun, Dest, Robinson, Carter-Vickers, etc. Baffles me. 

Yes, I agree with everything you say.

You also have to look at it another way.

If Canada had an elite player that was born in Canada but was rise abroad would you say NO to him? That's what the US is doing and has been doing. MLS has not been good at developing players, but that's changing. The Roman empire was not built overnight. Last, we are not England, Argentina, Spain, etc we have to use the players we can reach.

[DrunkOffPunch]

7 hours ago, Pasta88 said:

 

It’s also funny seeing Americans go on about how much American soccer has improved and turned the corner, and then in the same vain they’ll post a 2026 WC lineup where half the players never kicked a ball in the US until representing a national team. Musah, Balogun, Dest, Robinson, Carter-Vickers, etc. Baffles me. 

The US was 1 game away from holding every CONCACAF title at every age in both men’s and women’s less than 2 weeks ago.