Luca Koleosho

[Sechat23]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

All things considered the US probably doesn't call him if they are calling in a full squad. Unless they just want to shamelessly cap tie him.

As for who he should choose? The Americans are totally over-rated so for sure he should choose Canada. We are the future.

If I'm being honest here. I don't see USMNT bringing a full squad to play against Grenada and El Salvador. They need to reset and have their own life. I could see the USMNT bringing a B/ C squad. 

The last part was more biased than not.

[narduch]

Just now, Sechat23 said:

If I'm being honest here. I don't see USMNT bringing a full squad to play against Grenada and El Salvador. They need to reset and have their own life. I could see the USMNT bringing a B/ C squad. 

The last part was more biased than not.

I know you are an American troll so I won't continue to take the bait here.

The US don't even have a coach.

Who would want to get involved in that mess?

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

I know you are an American troll so I won't continue to take the bait here.

The US don't even have a coach.

Who would want to get involved in that mess?

This is a temporary state of flux for them. We should capitalize on Koleosho before they sort themselves out. 

If he doesn't want to play for us, not much we can do though. We can only twist his arm so much. It's up to him. 

[Sechat23]

8 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Honestly, if I were being unbiased and I were him I would pick the United States.

Better chance of winning trophies in the region, potentially gets to play in a Copa America as host, and the player pool has a relative lack of wingers compared to Canada. Our wing depth is Davies, Buchanan and Liam Millar. Their wing depth is Pulisic and Weah. Aaronson can play there, but he's not a true winger so there's an argument his path for minutes would be easier with the USMNT.

There's also the fact he was born in the US and grew up there and has already played for their youth team.  

If we manage to get him, it will be a steal for us! If we don't, it's not a case of being robbed imo.

I'd like to think we are over halfway there, considering his attendance in our senior camps. However, we have seen the likes of Flores and Mitrovic use us to attract the attention of Serbia and Mexico respectively. I can see that happening here, but it wouldn't feel like a player lost for me (unlike the other two), in a "can't lose what's not yours" sort of way, if that makes sense. 

Honestly, I would do the same. Not because Canada is bad or anything but the US has more benefits than Canada. 

The US really only has two wingers CP10 and Weah. Reyna and others are not wongers but can play there.

We also don't know how good could be or don't know what he stands. 

[Sechat23]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

I know you are an American troll so I won't continue to take the bait here.

The US don't even have a coach.

Who would want to get involved in that mess?

We all know the USMNT does not have a coach and has a mess with the last coach. But you can't talk about a mess when Canada also has a mess with paying players which Luca was there in camp.

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, Sechat23 said:

Honestly, I would do the same. Not because Canada is bad or anything but the US has more benefits than Canada. 

The US really only has two wingers CP10 and Weah. Reyna and others are not wongers but can play there.

We also don't know how good could be or don't know what he stands. 

He probably doesn't even know where he stands, which is likely why he hasn't made a choice yet. He's knocking on the door of Espanyol as an 18-year-old, so naturally that's going to be his focus. 

The weird thing is, I see the argument for him having an easier path into the US team as a wide player, because of the lack of wingers, BUT the overall level of the US is higher than Canada, just on a player-by-player basis, thus calling Koleosho to a USMNT A camp stikes me as being out of the question, at least until he gets more experience. It's the same reason why I wouldn't expect Jonathan Gomez in an A camp. These guys are youth players flirting with La Liga first teams. That's not the profile of guy you expect to rub shoulders with a full USMNT A squad, unless we are talking Barca or Real Madrid (which we are not). 

Funnily, Koleosho has already attended two of our A camps, and it never felt strange or odd, because Canada rarely has players that young pushing into clubs in the Top 5 Leagues. For the USA, with a deeper pool, this is less extraordinary.

The path I think is just as hard (or harder) breaking into our top unit, yet he's put himself out there and trained with our top guys and did well enough to get another call. I dunno, it's a weird situation for both countries, I think. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Obinna

[Sechat23]

25 minutes ago, Obinna said:

He probably doesn't even know where he stands, which is likely why he hasn't made a choice yet. He's knocking on the door of Espanyol as an 18-year-old, so naturally that's going to be his focus. 

The weird thing is, I see the argument for him having an easier path into the US team as a wide player, because of the lack of wingers, BUT the overall level of the US is higher than Canada, just on a player-by-player basis, thus calling Koleosho to a USMNT A camp stikes me as being out of the question, at least until he gets more experience. It's the same reason why I wouldn't expect Jonathan Gomez in an A camp. These guys are youth players flirting with La Liga first teams. That's not the profile of guy you expect to rub shoulders with a full USMNT A squad, unless we are talking Barca or Real Madrid (which we are not). 

Funnily, Koleosho has already attended two of our A camps, and it never felt strange or odd, because Canada rarely has players that young pushing into clubs in the Top 5 Leagues. For the USA, with a deeper pool, this is less extraordinary.

The path I think is just as hard (or harder) breaking into our top unit, yet he's put himself out there and trained with our top guys and did well enough to get another call. I dunno, it's a weird situation for both countries, I think. 

Agree with most.

There's has been players that did go to a Canada soccer camp but changed their minds and choose the other team,

Jonathan Gomez is a little bit different because he's a 19-year-old and can't find minutes with his A team.

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, Sechat23 said:

Agree with most.

There's has been players that did go to a Canada soccer camp but changed their minds and choose the other team,

Jonathan Gomez is a little bit different because he's a 19-year-old and can't find minutes with his A team.

Yeah that's true on Gomez I suppose. Koleosho seems further along in terms of first team minutes, but Real Sociedad is clearly stronger than Espanyol (especially this season).

Can't play too much in the realm of "what ifs", but if they switched clubs perhaps it would be Koleosho stuck with the B team and Gomez getting occasional first team looks.

Neither Koleosho nor Gomez are proven enough yet to get USMNT A calls in my view - and I put them in the same basket (see bolded part above). 

That said, if Koleosho rings up the US tomorrow and says he wants to come to camp, I doubt they will say no. And if they can cap tie him, I am sure they would do so gladly, even if it's just a 5-minute cameo against El Salvador in March. 

Otherwise, I am not sure the US calls him into the March window, unless they truly go into B/C team mode, which is in the realm of possibility. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Obinna

[Obinna]

The other angle to all of this is that Koleosho may not have played for Canada yet simply because 1. we were prepping for the WC, 2. he wasn't at the level required, or some combination. Who from the World Cup squad would he have replaced? Millar? I doubt it given the equity he's built up in the program - not to mention just the level of talent he shows (still needs to find the net more, but that's another story). Recall, this was a topic around these parts in the lead up. We talked about wanting to squeeze Koleosho in, but even we were having trouble squeezing him into our roster predictions/selections. 

The only thing which makes it an unknown is Herdman's comment about "getting him minutes" in the Uruguay/Qatar friendly camp. That didn't happen, hence the speculation about Koleosho himself deciding not to play. That wasn't helped by the fact he supposedly wants to try the USA before making a decision (was this a quote from him? Anyone know?). 

[Sechat23]

43 minutes ago, Obinna said:

The other angle to all of this is that Koleosho may not have played for Canada yet simply because 1. we were prepping for the WC, 2. he wasn't at the level required, or some combination. Who from the World Cup squad would he have replaced? Millar? I doubt it given the equity he's built up in the program - not to mention just the level of talent he shows (still needs to find the net more, but that's another story). Recall, this was a topic around these parts in the lead up. We talked about wanting to squeeze Koleosho in, but even we were having trouble squeezing him into our roster predictions/selections. 

The only thing which makes it an unknown is Herdman's comment about "getting him minutes" in the Uruguay/Qatar friendly camp. That didn't happen, hence the speculation about Koleosho himself deciding not to play. That wasn't helped by the fact he supposedly wants to try the USA before making a decision (was this a quote from him? Anyone know?). 

I don't see him choosing a team yet. He's only 18 and has to make the right decision. 

[Bigandy]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

The US really only has two wingers CP10 and Weah. Reyna and others are not wongers but can play there.

Interesting thoughts on his liklihood to get minutes between USA v Canada

CMNT depth Charts 

Wingers: 
1. Davies but if we have buchanan in serie A and Koleosho playing La liga in a few years, then i think davies goes to LB so we get the most quality players on the field.

1. Buchanan
2. Hoilett
3. Millar
4. Corbeanu
5. Koleosho
 

I think hoilett will have minutes dropping/phased out over the next 4 years. Corbeanu is likely to surpass millar. koleosho could arguably move into 2nd spot this year if he keeps playing first team minutes.

Final CMNT thoughts: Buchanan is only his real threat (assuming davies moves to LB), with a potential threat from corbeanu developing into a top 5 player which is unknown at this point.

USA Depth Charts 
1. Pulisic
2. Weah 
3. Reyna
4. Aaronson
5. Konrad de la fuente
6. Arriola/morris/youngsters? 
EDIT: Paredes, Cowell, Zendajas

Realistically, I dont think koleosho breaks the top 4 for a few years. Id bet the USA will play some players out of position before he starts, until hes firmly established as a better player than the other alternatives. 

Final USMNT Thoughts: Koleosho for sure has 2 natural top 5 wingers, 2 out of position top 5 wingers, and several youngsters who could be a threat. 

Verdict: Koleosho really doesnt have much room for error in his development if he is to be a USMNT starter. If he only develops into a top player in holland/belguim, he would still likely be a starter for canada. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Bigandy

[Floortom]

I would put Kevin Paredes high on the US’s winger talent. I was very impressed with him in MLS. He’s only 19 and has been getting a decent number of appearances for Wolfsburg. 
You can also add Cade Cowell as a very good young 18 year old talent and regular MLS starter.

looks like Alejandro Zendajas just committed to them too and he would be near the top of our list (certainly above Liam Millar for example).

point being there is far less congestion and it’s a much easier path to get in our squad than the US. If that’s his sole motivation (and I’m not saying it is) it’s a no brainer 

 

[Sechat23]

1 hour ago, Floortom said:

I would put Kevin Paredes high on the US’s winger talent. I was very impressed with him in MLS. He’s only 19 and has been getting a decent number of appearances for Wolfsburg. 
You can also add Cade Cowell as a very good young 18 year old talent and regular MLS starter.

looks like Alejandro Zendajas just committed to them too and he would be near the top of our list (certainly above Liam Millar for example).

point being there is far less congestion and it’s a much easier path to get in our squad than the US. If that’s his sole motivation (and I’m not saying it is) it’s a no brainer 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

Interesting thoughts on his liklihood to get minutes between USA v Canada

CMNT depth Charts 

Wingers: 
1. Davies but if we have buchanan in serie A and Koleosho playing La liga in a few years, then i think davies goes to LB so we get the most quality players on the field.

1. Buchanan
2. Hoilett
3. Millar
4. Corbeanu
5. Koleosho
 

I think hoilett will have minutes dropping/phased out over the next 4 years. Corbeanu is likely to surpass millar. koleosho could arguably move into 2nd spot this year if he keeps playing first team minutes.

Final CMNT thoughts: Buchanan is only his real threat (assuming davies moves to LB), with a potential threat from corbeanu developing into a top 5 player which is unknown at this point.

USA Depth Charts 
1. Pulisic
2. Weah 
3. Reyna
4. Aaronson
5. Konrad de la fuente
6. Arriola/morris/youngsters? 
EDIT: Paredes, Cowell, Zendajas

Realistically, I dont think koleosho breaks the top 4 for a few years. Id bet the USA will play some players out of position before he starts, until hes firmly established as a better player than the other alternatives. 

Final USMNT Thoughts: Koleosho for sure has 2 natural top 5 wingers, 2 out of position top 5 wingers, and several youngsters who could be a threat. 

Verdict: Koleosho really doesnt have much room for error in his development if he is to be a USMNT starter. If he only develops into a top player in holland/belguim, he would still likely be a starter for canada. 

Yes but the world cup is until 2026. Canada does not have much to offer than games against Curacao and Honduras. The US could offer a U20 world cup this year and a U23 Olympics next year. 

Luca could be better than KD la F and many more than you talk about.

[archer21]

The biggest problem I have when I think about Koleosho is that he doesn’t really have an obvious emotional connection to Canada. Usually when someone chooses us, they either were born in Canada, grew up in Canada, or were the only option for them because the nation they want to play for doesn’t want them. I just find it hard to believe he’ll ultimately allow us to permanently cap tie him before he knows 100% that he doesn’t have a future with USA. He was born and raised there so you’d have to assume that’s where he’d like to play. 

[Sechat23]

23 minutes ago, archer21 said:

The biggest problem I have when I think about Koleosho is that he doesn’t really have an obvious emotional connection to Canada. Usually when someone chooses us, they either were born in Canada, grew up in Canada, or were the only option for them because the nation they want to play for doesn’t want them. I just find it hard to believe he’ll ultimately allow us to permanently cap tie him before he knows 100% that he doesn’t have a future with USA. He was born and raised there so you’d have to assume that’s where he’d like to play. 

Tbh I never really had that in mind.

Unlike AD and JD, Luca was born and rise here in the US until he was like 12. 

There are reasons why Folarin Balogun and Musah really never played with the USYNT. 

An emotional connection might be higher than anything I had in mind. 

The only connection Luca has from Canada is his mom or dad which is not as big as you think.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, archer21 said:

The biggest problem I have when I think about Koleosho is that he doesn’t really have an obvious emotional connection to Canada. Usually when someone chooses us, they either were born in Canada, grew up in Canada, or were the only option for them because the nation they want to play for doesn’t want them. I just find it hard to believe he’ll ultimately allow us to permanently cap tie him before he knows 100% that he doesn’t have a future with USA. He was born and raised there so you’d have to assume that’s where he’d like to play. 

His mother is from Montreal, and is a trainer and athlete who worked for the Impact. His father is Nigerian, I don't think he was born in the States. He lived in Vermont/Connecticut.

I bet he has more extended family in Canada than the US. Which he left before he was a teen.

Truth is, he'll probably apply for Spanish citizenship since he's been here long enough and is of age, then we'll see some interesting conversations.

Oh and @Sechat23thanks for telling how little emotional connection you have with your parents. I forgot that part about Americans.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[narduch]

Sechat23 is only here to troll us

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 minutes ago, narduch said:

Sechat23 is only here to troll us

It's okay, I had fun thanking Tactical Manager online for finding Koleosho for us. 

[Sechat23]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

His mother is from Montreal, and is a trainer and athlete who worked for the Impact. His father is Nigerian, I don't think he was born in the States. He lived in Vermont/Connecticut.

I bet he has more extended family in Canada than the US. Which he left before he was a teen.

Truth is, he'll probably apply for Spanish citizenship since he's been here long enough and is of age, then we'll see some interesting conversations.

Oh and @Sechat23thanks for telling how little emotional connection you have with your parents. I forgot that part about Americans.

NP

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, Sechat23 said:

 

Yes but the world cup is until 2026. Canada does not have much to offer than games against Curacao and Honduras. The US could offer a U20 world cup this year and a U23 Olympics next year. 

Luca could be better than KD la F and many more than you talk about.

I am not sure how much of a draw youth tournaments are to a la liga player and even if he does want to play in these youth tournaments, that wont cap tie him. As for offering senior appearances, Canada is pretty on par with the USA. We both have nations league and the gold cup. 

I agree that Luca could turn out netter than KD la F and the other guys who are below him. However, will he turn out better than pulisic-doubtful, Reyna - doubtful, weah - around the same....  maybe slightly better, aaronson around the same....  maybe slightly better. 

The point is that theres at least 4 proven guys who are clearly ahead of him and he will have to reach his full potential to get minutes with the USMNT. If Luca develops to 75% of his potential and KD la F develops to 90%, then Luca drops another spot and so on. Not to mention that the USA can play a guy like musah out of position at winger. 

If you look at CMNT, Luca can develop to 75% of his potential and most likely be #2-3 on our depth charts. We just dont the same number of proven players or high end prospects. 
 

[Ruffian]

13 hours ago, archer21 said:

The biggest problem I have when I think about Koleosho is that he doesn’t really have an obvious emotional connection to Canada. Usually when someone chooses us, they either were born in Canada, grew up in Canada, or were the only option for them because the nation they want to play for doesn’t want them. I just find it hard to believe he’ll ultimately allow us to permanently cap tie him before he knows 100% that he doesn’t have a future with USA. He was born and raised there so you’d have to assume that’s where he’d like to play. 

Not having an emotion connection to our country can be a big problem. We landed a big player with Arfield but he abandoned us at the biggest moment, the World Cup. You can't expect a player with no strong connection to the country to stick it out through hard times.

[Sechat23]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

I am not sure how much of a draw youth tournaments are to a la liga player and even if he does want to play in these youth tournaments, that wont cap tie him. As for offering senior appearances, Canada is pretty on par with the USA. We both have nations league and the gold cup. 

I agree that Luca could turn out netter than KD la F and the other guys who are below him. However, will he turn out better than pulisic-doubtful, Reyna - doubtful, weah - around the same....  maybe slightly better, aaronson around the same....  maybe slightly better. 

The point is that theres at least 4 proven guys who are clearly ahead of him and he will have to reach his full potential to get minutes with the USMNT. If Luca develops to 75% of his potential and KD la F develops to 90%, then Luca drops another spot and so on. Not to mention that the USA can play a guy like musah out of position at winger. 

If you look at CMNT, Luca can develop to 75% of his potential and most likely be #2-3 on our depth charts. We just dont the same number of proven players or high end prospects. 
 

Players want to play in the World Cup and what's close to a World Cup? U20 World Cup, we really don't know how talented is Luca. We really have not seen him play. 

U20 World Cup can cap tie a player but they can do a one-time switch.

[Bigandy]

Just now, Sechat23 said:

Players want to play in the World Cup and what's close to a World Cup? U20 World Cup, we really don't know how talented is Luca. We really have not seen him play. 

U20 World Cup can cap tie a player but they can do a one-time switch.

Using your logic - Koleosho will 100% play in a world cup with canada. He may or may not play in a world cup with the USA. Sure he may want to play in a u20 world cup but playing in a u20 world cup is not enough to commit his senior allegiance to the USA. If he commits to them, there are other determining reasons. 

I think you understood my sentiment when I said a u20 wont cap tie him. I technically shouldve said "permanently cap tie him". However the point is still the same, a u20 world cup wont be the reason he chooses or doesnt choose the USMNT.

[Sechat23]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Using your logic - Koleosho will 100% play in a world cup with canada. He may or may not play in a world cup with the USA. Sure he may want to play in a u20 world cup but playing in a u20 world cup is not enough to commit his senior allegiance to the USA. If he commits to them, there are other determining reasons. 

I think you understood my sentiment when I said a u20 wont cap tie him. I technically shouldve said "permanently cap tie him". However the point is still the same, a u20 world cup wont be the reason he chooses or doesnt choose the USMNT.

Yes, I understand what you mean. You can't deny that the USA has the leverage on Luca and many other players. 

Let's say the US invited Luca to the U20 World Cup, question should be will he accept? That's where we don't know.

[narduch]

The U-20 World Cup conflicts with Espanyol's last 4-5 matches in La Liga.

I doubt Koleosho would even accept a call for that.

Keep trying troll.