Opponent watch: Suriname (why they have the potential to be a tough team)

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Yes their current team is not great:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suriname_national_football_team

 

But since the change in citizenship law, they can recruit dual-citizens and get a bunch of Dutch guys.

Coach Dean Gorré is looking to recruit 25 players for Suriname:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bJ0UDLqUjo

A list of some potential names for those who want to take a look at what they could bring:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_Leerdam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Donk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tjaronn_Chery
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Jozefzoon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Biseswar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell_Donald
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miquel_Nelom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glynor_Plet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Castillion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Gravenberch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danzell_Gravenberch
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefano_Denswil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joël_Zwarts 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rydell_Poepon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay-Roy_Grot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leroy_George
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensy_Menig
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Kishna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajiv_van_La_Parra
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheraldo_Becker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil_Misidjan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrano_Kerk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Alberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Burnet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenzo_Ebecilio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Ebecilio
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dion_Malone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Paal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ridgeciano_Haps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfernee_Dijksteel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Klaiber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaquille_Pinas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danilho_Doekhi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Hahn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gino_Coutinho
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Waterman

 

Some are good enough to play for the #CanMNT, others not so much.

Edited August 19, 2020 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Floortom]

A lot of those would obviusly be upgrades from their current roster which is terrible, but I would be surprised if they get much traction with a lot of these guys right in the middle of a pandemic. 

[Weng]

Boy Waterman!!  That’s a great name.

[One American]

The good news is that some of the better players are not necessarily out of the Dutch roster picture. 

[Ansem]

[PiedPilko]

We're being a bit arrogant if we think we're all that much better than Suriname. With Ryan Donk alone, their defense is leagues ahead of ours. On top of that Bisewar, their next best possible player, and Mitchell Donald look to have already confirmed. 

 

You're in for a rude shock if you think this team is a minnow. I'd put them ahead of Haiti and El Salvador and close to Panama/Curacao. I agree that we shouldn't really be talking about the World Cup if we can't get past Bermuda or Aruba, but let's not pretend that Suriname is in the same conversation.

 

Edit: Their weakness is obviously gonna be everyone that doesn't have the magic passport, which is why they're not quite at our level, even with these three. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by PiedPilko

[Fullback]

19 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

We're being a bit arrogant if we think we're all that much better than Suriname. With Ryan Donk alone, their defense is leagues ahead of ours. On top of that Bisewar, their next best possible player, and Mitchell Donald look to have already confirmed. 

 

You're in for a rude shock if you think this team is a minnow. I'd put them ahead of Haiti and El Salvador and close to Panama/Curacao. I agree that we shouldn't really be talking about the World Cup if we can't get past Bermuda or Aruba, but let's not pretend that Suriname is in the same conversation.

 

Edit: Their weakness is obviously gonna be everyone that doesn't have the magic passport, which is why they're not quite at our level, even with these three. 

Nobody out here is calling them a minnow. Most people are saying we shouldn't s*it ourselves in fear over an influx of 30+ year olds that have never played together.

I haven't seen anybody guarantee a win but we are optimistic that we should be able to handle Suriname

[archer21]

20 minutes ago, Fullback said:

Nobody out here is calling them a minnow. Most people are saying we shouldn't s*it ourselves in fear over an influx of 30+ year olds that have never played together.

I haven't seen anybody guarantee a win but we are optimistic that we should be able to handle Suriname

And also nobody is saying they’re Mexico. Everyone is arguing back and forth but realistically we all have the same expectation: they should be a more difficult opponent than the likes of St Kitts or Nicaragua, but we should still win.

[PiedPilko]

23 minutes ago, Fullback said:

Nobody out here is calling them a minnow. Most people are saying we shouldn't s*it ourselves in fear over an influx of 30+ year olds that have never played together.

I haven't seen anybody guarantee a win but we are optimistic that we should be able to handle Suriname

I've definitely seen people grouping Bermuda and Suriname together, and suggesting that we're hopeless if we don't beat Suriname. Truth is, in a single game, they probably win 30-40% of the time. Very, very not out of the question.  

[Obinna]

I wonder how many of them "committed" pre-covid and if the current situation changes things for any of them.... 

[Floortom]

12 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

I've definitely seen people grouping Bermuda and Suriname together, and suggesting that we're hopeless if we don't beat Suriname. Truth is, in a single game, they probably win 30-40% of the time. Very, very not out of the question.  

Come on - 40% of the time??!

our best players are better than theirs and our worse are far better than there’s. They have also never played with each other.

even ignoring the fact that I don’t believe more than a few will commit during the pandemic we should win at least 80% time

Edited August 19, 2020 by Floortom

[TFC2017]

12 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

I've definitely seen people grouping Bermuda and Suriname together, and suggesting that we're hopeless if we don't beat Suriname. Truth is, in a single game, they probably win 30-40% of the time. Very, very not out of the question.  

I think 30-40% of the time is an exaggeration.. I'd estimate closer to 10-15%. Unless you meant to say they get a result (win or draw), then I'd agree with the 30-40% claim. 

[Kadenge]

We all need some of that special forces mental toughness training....I will not be looking at this thread anymore..there I feel much better

[Kent]

I know I am certainly not calling them a minnow, or assuming we get past the first round. But if we want to make it to the World Cup we need to finish top 3 (or 4, but we still don't know which confederation we would have to play against, right?). That means only 2 of the following can finish ahead of us. Mexico, USA, Costa Rica, Jamaica, Panama, Honduras, Haiti, Curacao, and yes, Suriname, along with all the others. There are a lot of teams in that list that I think are better than a Suriname team that hasn't played together (although, I don't actually know these players, so I guess that's an assumption).

[PiedPilko]

Apologies, I meant that we don't win, not they win, 30-40% of the time. While Davies is definitely the best player on either side, I think Donk and Bisewar are 2 of the next 3. It's just hard for me to see us as heavy favorites when they probably have one of the best center backs in CONCACAF, while our backline is just full yikes. Like, their defense is just a lot better.

 

Our depth should win out, because we're not gonna be fielding anyone from the Surinamese league. There are obviously better teams than them, but Suriname is probably on the same level as Panama, and Panama qualified for the World Cup last time around.

 

If European players are prohibited, then there's not much to worry about, no.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 minute ago, PiedPilko said:

It's just hard for me to see us as heavy favorites when they probably have one of the best center backs in CONCACAF, while our backline is just full yikes. Like, their defense is just a lot better.

This is the statement! Suriname (at full potential) could have a defense roughly as good as Honduras and certainly better than Haiti's.

 

1 hour ago, TFC2017 said:

I think 30-40% of the time is an exaggeration.. 

Thankfully we don't play them away! For an away game, I don't think it would be a crazy figure. Yes we might lose to them but the other thing is that a draw because a very distinct possibility which forces us to try to whip the other teams to we have the best goal difference.

 

3 hours ago, kacbru said:

We are either a team challenging for a World Cup spot in 2022 or a team that is worried about the minnow draw.  It is mutually exclusive, we can't be both.

The problem is the team (before the new nationality rule) could whip Nicaragua 6-0 and then struggle against St Vincent and the Grenadines in their next two games. The team was inconsistent but showing glimpses of talent. Now it's difficult to rate them at all because they can theoretically build a Starting XI where perhaps 8 of the guys are brand new.  Their recent history has the potential of being irrelevant. They may not be a minnow; they might be better than El Salvador or Guatemala.

 

2 hours ago, canadianbacons said:

Even if Suriname has some good names on its roster, they've never played together on the same team.

They will have 3 games together before we face them. I don't think chemistry will be an issue.

[SthMelbRed]

37 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

Apologies, I meant that we don't win, not they win, 30-40% of the time. While Davies is definitely the best player on either side, I think Donk and Bisewar are 2 of the next 3. It's just hard for me to see us as heavy favorites when they probably have one of the best center backs in CONCACAF, while our backline is just full yikes. Like, their defense is just a lot better.

 

Our depth should win out, because we're not gonna be fielding anyone from the Surinamese league. There are obviously better teams than them, but Suriname is probably on the same level as Panama, and Panama qualified for the World Cup last time around.

 

If European players are prohibited, then there's not much to worry about, no.

No.

Neither of them has had a career that shows that they have been better than Arfield, Hutch or Hoillet, nor that they are better right now, putting aside positional differences. 

There's no reason to automatically put them ahead of David, Kaye, Eustaqiuo, Osorio, or Cavallini, either.

They are good players. They will improve Suriname. They are not world beaters, or even CONCACAF beaters. Let's see if they even show up.

[PiedPilko]

9 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

No.

Neither of them has had a career that shows that they have been better than Arfield, Hutch or Hoillet, nor that they are better right now, putting aside positional differences. 

There's no reason to automatically put them ahead of David, Kaye, Eustaqiuo, Osorio, or Cavallini, either.

They are good players. They will improve Suriname. They are not world beaters, or even CONCACAF beaters. Let's see if they even show up.

Really? I'll be honest, I didn't know anything about either of them until recently. But everything I've read about them has them as decent players in top leagues.

[SthMelbRed]

Outside of two short loans for Donk in the Premier League and La Liga, both of their careers have been spent in the Netherlands, Belgium, Turkey, and Greece. Their resumes are good for CONCACAF internationals, but not outstanding. Half of our team have comparable playing resumes. And our guys definitely answer the call when it comes. It's yet to be seen with these two.

I can't say I'm an expert on either player. I vaguely remember Donk from his short time at West Brom. He wasn't much of a stand-out in a not-very-good team, although he was young. I don't think I've watched the other guy beyond the odd highlights package from the Europa League. Nothing he did made him stick in my mind.

Basically, I'm looking at their CVs and having a hard time reconciling them with your assertion that they'd automatically sit below only Alphonso in a ranking of our combined squads.

[PiedPilko]

Fair enough, sounds like you know more about them. Anyone else have a different opinion?

[youllneverwalkalone]

They rob from the rich and give to the poor.

[Tyson M]

Edited August 20, 2020 by Tyson M
forgot to say... they actually do rob from the rich and give to the poor!!!

[CanadaFan123]

13 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Outside of two short loans for Donk in the Premier League and La Liga, both of their careers have been spent in the Netherlands, Belgium, Turkey, and Greece. Their resumes are good for CONCACAF internationals, but not outstanding. Half of our team have comparable playing resumes. And our guys definitely answer the call when it comes. It's yet to be seen with these two.

I can't say I'm an expert on either player. I vaguely remember Donk from his short time at West Brom. He wasn't much of a stand-out in a not-very-good team, although he was young. I don't think I've watched the other guy beyond the odd highlights package from the Europa League. Nothing he did made him stick in my mind.

Basically, I'm looking at their CVs and having a hard time reconciling them with your assertion that they'd automatically sit below only Alphonso in a ranking of our combined squads.

Especially since Jonathan David sits right below Davies... no one is going to tell me that a 30+ player who could never break into the Dutch national team is ahead of one of the best young players on the planet. Jonathan David would be capped for the Netherlands. Fact. And so would Atiba Hutchinson.

Edited August 20, 2020 by CanadaFan123

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

12 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

no one is going to tell me that a 30+ player who could never break into the Dutch national team is ahead of one of the best young players on the planet.

That's not the question.

The question is: "If Suriname recruit to their fullest potential, do they have the ability to cause us enough problems to snatch a draw or possibly a win?"

I think that answer is yes.

The defenders of the Haitian national team aren't any better on paper and yet we still lost to them.

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

That's not the question.

The question is: "If Suriname recruit to their fullest potential, do they have the ability to cause us enough problems to snatch a draw or possibly a win?"

I think that answer is yes.

The defenders of the Haitian national team aren't any better on paper and yet we still lost to them.

Well of course, but you'll note that in the case of my post I was referring to that assertion.